Head Stamp ID?

[Bert2368]

I've got about 130 rounds of what appears to be M-2 .30-06 ammo in 5 round strippers put up in 60 round bandoliers that were in my father's "junk box" when he died. I assume it's corrosive primed and still shootable, it looks as nice as the '80's Greek ammo and BETTER than the LC '68 CMP ammo I've got. Don't know if I should shoot it for practice and reload the cases (with boolits, of course!) or offer it to collectors.

Markings are: C N and 9 40

I can guess it was made it September of 1940, but which factory? Any cartridge collectors out there know?


http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/100_0260.jpg

[StarMetal]

All I could find was this: millions of rounds of .30-'06 military ammo was produced in 1953 that was headstamped AN,BN or CN followed by 40 and a single digit and possesed a red laquer seal around the primer. Although there is no official description of this ammo (it is labelled 'unknown' in the declassified Small-Caliber Ammunition Identification Guide (U)

Also found that CN can mean Lake City, Unknown French arsenal, and Unknown Chinese arsenal.

I'd say the first description.

Joe

[Bert2368]

Yeah, I found a referance that it could be Lake City- But I've never seen this format with the four radial lines separating the characters before.

All of the other old military ammo and cases in dad's stuff was leftovers from DCM or range pickups from shooting at the armory. There is a mind boggling variety of .45ACP head stamps, and even some WWII steel cased .45 loaded rounds.

[StarMetal]

Yeah, I found a referance that it could be Lake City- But I've never seen this format with the four radial lines separating the characters before.

All of the other old military ammo and cases in dad's stuff was leftovers from DCM or range pickups from shooting at the armory. There is a mind boggling variety of .45ACP head stamps, and even some WWII steel cased .45 loaded rounds.

I think my first description nails it. Read it: Start with CN going clockwise, then the numberal 40, then a single digit...in your case a 9

Joe

[Bert2368]

This is the only referance I've found that actually pictures this headstamp, more or less. It shows all 3 variations, the AN, BN and CN variants and different X 40 numbers as well. BUT- The numbers are shown inverted to the samples I have!

http://www.dia.mil/publicaffairs/Foia/smcal_vol1.pdf

Small Arms Ammunition Identification Guide, Volume 1, Small Arms Ammunition up to 15mm- 1985 U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency publication

I'm amazed. All it says is "probably manufactured in the 50's". Doesn't even say it's US made. I am REALLY wondering who the CIA had Lake City make this for- And how Dad got his hands on some.

[runfiverun]

i have a few of these cases somewhere. not sure where i got them either.

[trooperdan]

The story I recall about this headstamp was it was used in the invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs! Supposed to be 'pausible deniability' or some such! Supposed to by US loaded for such special ops.

[Frank46]

I'd have to go with trooperdan's explanation. I have a few loaded rounds and had sent some inqirie's to various web sites and most if not all came back as his answer.
Found these just laying on the ground at the gun club I belong to. But then again my sources could be wrong. Frank

[StarMetal]

I'd have to go with trooperdan's explanation. I have a few loaded rounds and had sent some inqirie's to various web sites and most if not all came back as his answer.
Found these just laying on the ground at the gun club I belong to. But then again my sources could be wrong. Frank

Read the last paragraph of my description:Although there is no official description of this ammo (it is labelled 'unknown' in the declassified Small-Caliber Ammunition Identification Guide (U)

Do you think special ops ammunition would have the label of what country made it clearly stamped on it. Trooper Dan and my description go hand in hand.

Joe

[Bert2368]

From an email senty by John Spangler at oldguns.net-

http://oldguns.net/



************************
If you are referring to the AN/BN/CN rounds they were NOT made specifically for the Bay of Pigs. Manufacture of all three major variants occurred in 1953, well before the Bay of Pigs. They were intended for clandestine use and some were used during the failed Cuban invasion in 1961
AN - made by Twin Cities Arsenal (It changed its name from Twin Cities Ordnance Plant to Twin Cities Arsenal when it reopened in 1950)
BN - made by St. Louis Ordnance Plant
CN - made by Lake City Ordnance Plant

The 1940 "dates" on these rounds are, of course, fake.
AN "lots" 1/40 through 9/40
BN "lots" 1/40 through 5/40
CN "lots" 1/40 through 9/40

Chris Punnett

*****************

Your .30-06 ammunition with /B/N/4/40 headstamp was made at St. Louis Ordnance Plant in 1953, in lot numbers one through four (an unfinished case exists with "5" also, but no loaded ammunition has been observed with that lot number). It was a contract for the U.S. Government, for ammunition for use in whatever convert operations they chose to use it in. It was not made specifically for the "Bay of Pigs" fiasco.

Similar rounds were made by Twin Cities (AN) and Lake City (CN).

These rounds are, like all ammunition, collectible, but are not rare. I have a full bandoleet of the St. Louis ammunition, lot 2, that I simply have not gotten around to firing yet. It is packed in a standard olive-drab 6six-pocket U.S. bandoleer, each pocket holding two, five-shot Springfield-type steel clips, with end tabs, nestled in a carboard pocket within the pocket of the bandoleer intself. Standard U.S. packaging, although the use of Springfield clips in a 1953 contract is interesting of itself, and I have no information as to why that particular arrangement was done.

The bandoleer has no markings other than a stampled representation of the cartridge's headstamp on it.

The ammunition is Ball M2 Alternate, which differs from Ball M2 in having a GMCS bullet jacket, rather than a GM jacket. Bullet weight is 150 grains.
The primer is non-corrosive.

Hope this helps.

Reference: ".30-06", by Chris Punnett, page 312. (This is one of the "must have books" for anyone interested in U.S. military ammunition).

[wrcook]

If you would like to sell a couple I would love to buy them.
Bill C