how much lube ??

[jhalcott]

I was at a friends today and watched him load some .45ACP ammo. The bullets were bought at a yard sale some years ago. He bought all ten boxes of 1000 each. They LOOK like a 185 or 200 grain H&G #68. I thought he was doing wrong by loading bullets that only had half the groove full of gray lube. He said it has never been a problem and gets minor leading at worst and none usually. He has several trophies won with these bullets so I can't say he IS wrong! His gun is a modified 1911(trigger,barrel and sights) with a 6" barrel.
I guess I'm wondering just how LITTLE lube I need in a 5" .45 using WW or Lyman #2 alloy? OH YEA, happy Earth day!

[357maximum]

In any decent barrelled 45 that is "fit" with a boolit that "FITS" you can pretty much get enough lube for the boolit by sticking your index finger in your ear canal.

Most 45's are very forgiving in the lube department. Excess lube or excess in the "QUALITY" of your lube can actually hurt accuracy............in any iron.

[runfiverun]

i don't freak if my low pressure stuff is missing some lube in the grooves either it i.m.o. helps it throw all the lube off right when it comes out of the bbl.
as long as there is enough to keep a layer of it in the bbl it's all good.

[303Guy]

Excess lube or excess in the "QUALITY" of your lube can actually hurt accuracy............in any iron. Since the original question has been answered.... might I ask how and/or why excess lube can hurt accuracy? (I'm doing the excess lube thing so it matters to me).

[fredj338]

I would rather have too much than too little. I prefer large single grooves but two adequate grooves works as well & I fill all the grooves.

[mpmarty]

Back in the old days when I used a Lyman #45 lubrisizer for my H&G #68s if I cranked the handle to feed lube once for each ten or fifteen boolits it was "too much" as all I wanted was about half or less of the lube groove filled. In working up accuracy loads with BE powder and matched cases in a custom 1911 I found the less lube the better the accuracy was at fifty yards. I now use tumble lube diluted with mineral spirits and then lightly flowered with motor mica. Less is better!

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Yep.. just another part of the Experimentation zone. I have not experienced any accuracy LOSS from to much but I generally have a "Cheap" side that says.. "Why just blow it out the barrel" if mot meeded.
Mike in Peru

[357maximum]

Since the original question has been answered.... might I ask how and/or why excess lube can hurt accuracy? (I'm doing the excess lube thing so it matters to me).

I would love to give you a 100% definitive answer to both the how and the why...but I cannot. I do know that in some cases too much lube(boolit design) or too much of a good oil in a lube will open groups.....jojoba,meadowfoam, castor oils in some of my HV lubes and in some boolit designs in some guns will make groups bigger when their % exceeds a certain spot..........I listen to professor gun and when he tells me he is happy I let it alone...when he is not I give him more or less in the fine tuning of a load.....sometimes you go too far and things go from pretty good to dismal ..............real quick.

The most accurate groups I have ever shot have been with lubes that would ruin powder upon storage...(read liquid)...but a liquid lube is useles in storage ...so you have to strike a balance at some point if you want to store a lube on a boolit in a case.....that is why waxes are used in lube making. And some waxes are much better at carrying lube without adding viscosity than others..........it is all a balancing act once you get below 1inch or 3/4 of an inch at 100 (with some intensity ranges with some irons) and little changes in lube can make a big difference......sometimes/ some guns and under some circumstances.

Felix might be able to splain it mo betta, but I think it works as either a less "grip" on the boolit/bore , hydraulics or more "residue" left behind thingie. [smilie=b: All I know it that there "is" a potential for it to happen.........why..............err uh I dunn fer sure.

[Recluse]

I've been doing a little experimenting with lubes, lube grooves and how much/how little with some 148 wadcutters.

So far, my best and most consistent groups have come from the boolits lubed via my LLA/JPW/MS mix method. A VERY close second--and sometimes indistinguishable from first place--are the boolits lubed in the lubesizer with my red lube, but only one lube groove holding lube.

Even with this lube, which gives me superlative results in my higher-velocity long gun rounds, the more grooves on the WC I fill (this boolit has three grooves), the more the groups open up.

I also experimented a while back using a very high viscosity synthetic lubricant as a base ingredient. Had high hopes for this formula and on the boolits I lubed all three grooves, over half the shots fired didn't even make it onto the paper. :shock:

The boolits with only one groove lubed did better--stayed in the aimpoint area--but nonetheless, this particular lube-formula experiment was a complete and utter failure.

I will admit that it surprises me that my most consistent and accurate loads at low velocity (handgun loads, that it) all involve boolits with only one lube groove used or boolits I've tumble-lubed.

:coffee:

[runfiverun]

the lead and lands need to engage.
the lead need to seal the bore.
the lube needs to help seal the bore and keep a minute amount of lube in the bore to help the next round through it.
too much lube in the bbl and you have to push it down and out the bbl. [lube purge flyers, might be all of them]
too little and the friction starts to tear the tendrils of antimony off the boolit.
lead don't seal. you get gas pushing past it/and you know what happens there.
lube is too slippery the lead will not grab the lands and will slip down the bbl causing poor accuracy.
balancing act? yep, get it right and you can get away with a lot of other things.

[303Guy]

Just when I thought it was simple!!!!:groner:

Thanks folks. This is getting interesting and challanging! Now I gotta get out there and experiment!:wink:

I have just made up a new lube which seems to stop leading in my rifle bore. Nothing fancy - just candle wax, STP (or similar) and alox mix in a hot dip. My boolits have no lube groove but carry the lube on the nose (and body) instead. I am also using a waxy-lube 'wad', created by simply dipping the bullet base in the hot lube. I have not range tested this yet.

[jonk]

It has been my experience that lube falls into 2 categories. Soft lube that blasts off as the bullet exits the barrel, and hard lube that stays on for the ride downrange.

For the former, less is better.

For the latter, filling the groove completely is a must or it will create an imbalance in flight.

I just usually fill the groove anyhow. Or tumble lube, as the case may be.

[303Guy]

When I first started out with grooveless boolits. I was warned that the layer of lube on the front section of the boolit might cause impressions on the bullet surface. The slower bullets that I could capture intact (almost) showed no surface damage and faster ones get so damaged that I couldn't tell anyway. But that group I produced would indicate that even if there was surface damage, it was not having a detrimental effect. (All seven of the test loads shot very close together). The lube I use is hard - I developed it specifically for holding hornet bullets in place. I wonder whether the same rules apply to grooveless and lubed-grooved boolits? I apply as much lube as I can to maintain a film in the bore with a case full of H4350/AR2209. Before I made up my new lot of lube, I seemed to be running out of lube in the bore. There was no lube star and leading was occuring toward the muzzle. Perhaps the old lube had broken down from being heated too high for too long!