Winchester Red wads WAA12R

[richbug]

Is there any demand for these? I see Winchester dropped them. I have a friend who had 10-20 cases of them(size of a pickup truck).

I use a few, maybe a bag every 3-4 years.

[smkummer]

It was winchesters own low cost wad to compete with the other aftermarket AA type wads. If you are wanting to sell them let me know as myself and another trap shooter can use these.

[richbug]

It was winchesters own low cost wad to compete with the other aftermarket AA type wads. If you are wanting to sell them let me know as myself and another trap shooter can use these.

I always thought that they were just a shorter wad for heavy field loads. I had been using them in 1.5ounce 2 3/4 " field loads. What loads are you using?

[smkummer]

Oops, I was going from old memory. The WT12 wad was the economical wad for the WAA12. Your right, it is a magnum or heavy field load wad. Sorry, don't need any of those. I have in the past, used a 20 gauge fiber wad to take up space and shoot field wads for informal clay shooting. Steel shot has made those wads a very slow mover.

[klcarroll]

@Richbug;

Since I load a lot of buckshot loads, I use the "12Rs" regularly!

.....If your friend is looking to move some of his inventory; ....I'd be interested in some!

Kent

[briang]

I'd be in for some, a bag or two.

[Storydude]

As would I. 2 bags.

[richbug]

The problem I see with selling them is shipping would likely be as much as the wads cost, at least in small amounts. I'll talk to him when I see him next and see what he wants to do with them.

[jsizemore]

I could use a couple of bags. Let me know.

[eye shot]

Those wads also work with the Lyman 525 slugs.

[Flinchrock]

The problem I see with selling them is shipping would likely be as much as the wads cost, at least in small amounts. I'll talk to him when I see him next and see what he wants to do with them.

Couple for me,,,please and thank you!

[John Boy]

Rich, the Red WAA12R's are what folks are using that shoot 1 1/8 black powder reloads

[mikenbarb]

I can use a couple for my heavy field loads. I got a bunch of other sizes and brands if you want to trade. The only thing I have to ask is how much is looking to sell them for??
PS- Claybuster still makes a knockoff WAA12R wad but just not the same as an original Winchester one.

[sargenv]

They also work well for paper based Winchester hulls that have a tall basewad.. I still have a large stock of paper based Winchester hulls and these work good with an 1 1/8 of lead with I think 19 gr of Red Dot.

Claybuster makes the Winchester alternate hulls, and for about half the cost.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello RichBug, do you still have some Win.AA12R wads left?
If yes then can you please let me know the price and shipping to New Jersey for 2 bags.
Thank you.
Ajay
VdoMemories@Gmail.com

[Flinchrock]

Hello RichBug, do you still have some Win.AA12R wads left?
If yes then can you please let me know the price and shipping to New Jersey for 2 bags.
Thank you.
Ajay
VdoMemories@Gmail.com

Same here!

[Reload3006]

if your reasonable on the price i would be in for a couple bags of them.

[UNIQUEDOT]

If he doesn't have anymore claybuster makes a clone of this wad. I have not used the clone as my OEM's have not yet dried up, but i have used several claybuster wads in the past couple of years and the quality is outstanding, but in some of the clones i used from them the wads had reinforced petals which makes them worthless for slug loading. I don't know if their waa12r clone has the ribbed petals though. When my waa12f114's dry up i intend to try the claybuster and downrange clone. I have already stopped using waa12's in favor of a non clone replacement from downrange. A little advice... anyone whom favors federal wads needs to stick with the OEM especially if loading slugs.

[shotman]

wow post was 2009 bet they got brittle by now

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Shotman, just for your information, I have some wads from 70's the Rem.RP12 and some others and they are just as flexible as the new ones!
If kept in the house that has heat in winter and A/C in summer should be fine!
Ajay
Video Memories
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[UNIQUEDOT]

Hello Shotman, just for your information, I have some wads from 70's the Rem.RP12 and some others and they are just as flexible as the new ones!
If kept in the house that has heat in winter and A/C in summer should be fine!
Ajay
Video Memories
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

I too have plenty of long gone plastic wads from Alcan, Bair, Lage, hornady, Winchester, Some old Remingtons and probably some that are not coming to mind at the present and they are all in perfect condition. As you stated storage is key.

[Harmon_Greer]

the claybuster wads do not work with slugs, they have a taper on the petals and the slug, both lee and lyman cut the petals off.

the plastic is also really soft and even with lead shot over 2 dram eq pyrodex loads, it blows the gas seal. i have about 10 bags of the real good winchester wads. and 450 of the claybuster junk.

[DODGEM250]

My wads work just fine.

[UNIQUEDOT]

the claybuster wads do not work with slugs, they have a taper on the petals and the slug, both lee and lyman cut the petals off.

the plastic is also really soft and even with lead shot over 2 dram eq pyrodex loads, it blows the gas seal. i have about 10 bags of the real good winchester wads. and 450 of the claybuster junk.

Are you referring to the waa12r clone? I have tried their federal clones and found out they wont work with slugs, but had yet to try the waa12r clones. They do have some newer wads (CB6100-12) (CB6118-12) designed for straight walled hulls and in my limited testing they seem to work fine, but i have not tried them with heavy loads.

[Harmon_Greer]

yes, i contacted the manufacturer and they told me they changed the petal design for better performance with shot loads. they sent me some of the old wads but they really didnt work any better.

[Junior1942]

The WAA12R wads I bought from BPI a few weeks ago work perfectly with my Lee 1 oz slugs.

[Harmon_Greer]

by worked perfectly you got better than 2 foot groups?

[UNIQUEDOT]

The WAA12R wads I bought from BPI a few weeks ago work perfectly with my Lee 1 oz slugs.

Have you used the genuine article prior to the so called clone?

[Harmon_Greer]

i have three different waa12r wads, the original winchester, the new, terrible claybuster. and after i emailed the manufacturer they sent me some of the old stock they still had before the change.

just thought i would add that the earlier claybuster 12R wads were good, the later ones not so good.

you may have some of the older ones, or they may have switched back. the website no longer lists them as having the lead in taper..if they dont, they may be good

[UNIQUEDOT]

Harmon, the lead in taper doesn't refer to the internal ribs or reinforcements inside the petals. It refers to the tapering lead on the outside bottom of the powder cup. Winchester changed their once wonderful target hulls (and their junk hulls as well) and added a high base wad similar to some European hulls and the old style wads would catch on the top of the base wad and the powder cup would get damaged so Winchester added the taper to the wads to lead it into the top of the base wad.

Claybuster had to change their design as well to prevent damage to the powder seal. The main idea in the change to the hulls was to get pressures where needed with even less powder than normal hull tapering and in some loads the wad doesn't even contact the powder as it sits either on top or slightly inside the basewad.

[Harmon_Greer]

i knew winchester added the HS insert to their AA hulls..i still load with the older wads and havent had a problem.

i did however come across a pile of reloading components for shotshells.
Activ hulls
peters blue magic
rem sts
rem gun club.
win AA, the old ones,
old alcan wads, 10 gauge wads, 16, 12, 28 and 410 wads.
i have stuff that they havent made in 30-40 years.

[Harmon_Greer]

here is the original waa12r, and the claybuster imposter with my fingers pushing the lyman 525 down into the wads. note the spread petals on the imposter wad.

far left is a black alcan wad i have been experimenting with. so far it works just as good, if not better than the 12Rhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_28964f0a890ad7680.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3366)

[Harmon_Greer]

here are other two wads i use with the lyman super pellet. pc red and the black alcan.

i use the red PC wad where it calls for a Waa12, and the black alcan where a WAA12R is needed. so far so good.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_28964f0a89b56c18e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3367)

[Junior1942]

by worked perfectly you got better than 2 foot groups?

Here's 3 shots @ 25 yards with shotgun sights. The bottom 3 are one group with 3.0cc powder and the top hole is one shot with 3.1cc powder. The Lee 1 oz slug is tapered to match the inside taper of the WAA12R wad. An article is here: http://www.castbullet.com/misc/stevens2.htm

Data:

Win 209 primer
Win AAHS hull
3.0 cc powder U
1/8" Nitro Over Powder wad
WAA12R wad
Lee 1 oz slug
Perfect star crimp
Estimated velocity = 1200 fps

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/photos/stevens9426t.jpg

[UNIQUEDOT]

Harmon that's an Alcan type C wad correct? funny thing is i have been using the black Alcan type D wad in place of the waa12r in some recipes. Those were some terrific wads and i wish they were still around. I am almost completely out of the Alcans (probably less than 100 left) i only have a few hundred of the waa12r's left too and was really hoping the claybuster wad would suit my purposes, but i can't deal with the poor fitting of an internally ribbed wad.

The folks at claybuster told me the ribbed wads wouldn't work for slugs when i emailed them a couple years ago, but i had already ordered them (federal clones) before i asked. I attempted to use them anyway, but it was disappointing. They were excellent performers with shot loads though.

I don't have any of the pc wads in 12 ga., but i have some similar wads from Bair and i use them where an waa12 is suitable. I have plenty of waa12's and wt12's anyways and don't think those will ever be discontinued. I was a bit upset when the waa12f114 was discontinued, but even so i just gave a bag to a fellow shooter about a month ago. Claybuster and Downrange manufacturing both make a copy of it, but i have not tried either of them. I'll bet the Downrange version doesn't have those ribs on the petals though. Perhaps an email is in order to find out.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Junior, the article was an enjoyable read. I was really surprised to see that you were not only using the CB wad, but was using it with the HS hull. Have you tried loading them in repeaters? i wouldn't think they would feed reliably. Maybe the combo works because you are using the whackit loader and the slug isn't being forced into the bottom of the shotcup like a crimp die does?

I know that i get a lot more wad pressure when using my mec than i do with a load all, but still i use the load all with all new hulls and usually run them through my mec at some point in time to get a deeper crimp (never a problem with used hulls and the load all) but when i use a lee loader i never worry about it unless i am using traditional wads.

[Junior1942]

Junior, the article was an enjoyable read. I was really surprised to see that you were not only using the CB wad, but was using it with the HS hull. Have you tried loading them in repeaters? i wouldn't think they would feed reliably. Maybe the combo works because you are using the whackit loader and the slug isn't being forced into the bottom of the shotcup like a crimp die does?

I know that i get a lot more wad pressure when using my mec than i do with a load all, but still i use the load all with all new hulls and usually run them through my mec at some point in time to get a deeper crimp (never a problem with used hulls and the load all) but when i use a lee loader i never worry about it unless i am using traditional wads.I don't have a repeater in which to load them. They slip right in the chamber of the old Stevens. My only other--shootable & non-blackpowder--shotgun is a 12 ga Handi-Rifle barrel. Tomorrow I'll see how the shells fit in the chamber and post the results.

[Harmon_Greer]

i believe you are correct on the wad type. it has to be slit to the base of the wad to release the slug. if not it flys intact to the target. i use the pc wad instead of the WAA12 because the leg section is stiffer and the petals are a touch thinner. they shoot good.

i shoot them in a mossberg 500 and an H and R ultra slug gun. both guns will shoot less than 1.5 inches at 100 yards with 44 grains blue dot, waa12R wad, lyman 525 cast from wheel weights, win or cheddite 209 primer in an AA hull or the federal universal load hull. the cheaper federal hull gives up 40 or so feet per second to the AA hull but also does it with less pressure.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Here is a 7/8 oz shotshell i loaded yesterday on the loadall and another picture of the same shell after being ran through the final crimp stage on the sizemaster today. The top picture is after being ran through the mec. It's hard to tell from the crappy pictures, but considerably more wad pressure was applied and the top of the shell has a beautiful taper which no factory shell matches.

If i would have tried to load a slug in this internally ribbed wad the results would have been a bulged shell that wouldn't feed reliably. I have not tried this with my lee loader, but this particular wad has a slightly undersized shotcup anyways. I have tried the CB copy of the federal wads and ended up with the bulged loads.

A reduction in the powder charge will allow the load to crimp properly, but will still bulge in the final crimp stage around the hull where the ribs are inside the petals.

Junior i was surprised to see that in the picture of the inside of the shotcup in your article that the wad appears to have been forced into the base of the slug out of alignment yet you are still getting decent groups.

[UNIQUEDOT]

i believe you are correct on the wad type. it has to be slit to the base of the wad to release the slug.

The D version of that wad which is what i have are not slit all the way down either. They are very similar to an sp12, but they are made of a thicker tougher feeling plastic. They do have a powder seal very similar to the waa12r. I think i have the original load data sheet for for the C and D wads around here somewhere.

[Harmon_Greer]

i have the original bags that have the data sheet in them....i dont have any Alcan powders or hs5 powder...i will have to look to be certain of the wad type and load data.

[Harmon_Greer]

they are alcan C, i also have several thousand of the alcan flite max 4, and quite a few of the green pc wads, same lenght as the defucnt 12R, but with a better gas seal. i have not tried them yet, but plan to this weekend.

[Junior1942]

I don't have a repeater in which to load them. They slip right in the chamber of the old Stevens. My only other--shootable & non-blackpowder--shotgun is a 12 ga Handi-Rifle barrel. Tomorrow I'll see how the shells fit in the chamber and post the results.They fit perfectly in the chamber of the 12 ga Handi. The last 3/8" required a slight push to seat the shell all the way. I could have seated that last 3/8" with a feather.

[eye shot]

I read someware that Claybuster wads were made out of recycled plastic- like milk jugs and such and they are soft and can plastic foul the barrel. Some of the other companys use pristeen new plastic for a tougher wad.

[Reload3006]

I have shot thousands of the claybuster wads i have had no plastic fouling problems.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I read someware that Claybuster wads were made out of recycled plastic- like milk jugs and such and they are soft and can plastic foul the barrel. Some of the other companys use pristeen new plastic for a tougher wad.

This is the only thing claybuster states on their website about the plastic.

"The wads are manufactured, and have always been manufactured, with 100% prime resin so a consistent quality product can be expected with every purchase."

I suppose "prime resin" could mean pretty much anything. I use some of their wads and don't have plastic fouling. I think downrange used to state that they used virgin plastics. Both companies have some good stuff and some not so good stuff.

[eye shot]

I should have said in a rifled barrel shooting slugs. In my USH five rounds and you could pull long black stringes of plastic out using soft wads.

[Harmon_Greer]

i shot 15 rounds through my slug guns and didnt notice any barrel fouling with the claybuster. i may have been too concerned with the 2 foot 5 shot group at 50 yards from an otherwise 1 hole load.

there are some loads that you can cut corners with a discount wad. i dont think slug shooting is one of those loads. with winchester no longer making the red wad, when i run out of my stash, i guess i will go with the Waa12 in a 3 inch hull over 48-50 grains of blue dot.