Hi Point c9 9mm reloading

[Saint]

So i have finally been given the all clear and I am out of the hospital, i was given a Hi Point C9 9mm as a house warming gift and i am looking at starting up a reloading setup, i have not been on in months but if anyone remembers i have always been a muzzleloader person but a lot of my muzzleloaders were sold paying off the last of the hospital bills so this is probably going to be my main for a while, i still have my muzzleloader casting supplies but i need to get a setup for my 9mm now, i am looking to find a good cast boolit and i need an ultra compact reloading setup. I have been looking at a Lee Classic Loader or a Lee Hand Loader due to both price and the ability to use in my apartment where i cant fit a bench. Looking for suggestions/opinions/recommendations on what I will need to get started and opinions on the Lee loaders mentioned. Thanks.

[Treeman]

Lee stuff is very innovative and cost effective. The Lee 124 gr. round nose Tumble lube design is easy to cast and has worked very well for me in various 9mm handguns.

[HeavyMetal]

Simple set up: a Lee C press set of Lee 9mm dies with the Carbide Factory crimp die and a 9mm tumble lube mold.

The c press can be mounted on a metal block and clamped in a Work mate if you have one! Everything fits in a closet when your done!

[mooman76]

If you are just going to 9mm and probably not much more Lee has a hand press that is doable. It uses standard dies.

[trickyasafox]

I hope you have a speedy recovery! you might want to consider an auto primer too so you can hand prime. I think its much faster than press priming unless you go progressive or turret.

[Saint]

There have been so many people willing to help me get started. I was just given about 5000 9mm cartridges and a lee classic loader from a complete stranger at the range and i just placed an order from midway for a case trimmer, a priming tool, and some case lube. So what i need to know now is where to go from here, i know i will probably need a loading manual. I know that the classic loader is not exactly the speediest way to load but i do hear good things about them. The person that gave me the brass also gave me 100 Remington 115grain FMJ bullets so I also need to find a good load for those bullets. Also i hear that there is a concern about leading the barrel while shooting cast bullets but i have a lot of lead at the moment that i would really like to use, any thoughts on this before i get a mould. Again the gun I am working with is a Hi Point C9 9mm. Thanks again for any input.

[hobbles]

Mornin Saint, or any one,,
Can I pick you brain a minute? I also have and do cast RB's for my 54 and I also have a HP C9 and got the bugs worked out of it and now I really like it. I have been thinkin of castin my own bullets for the C9. Now comes the questions,, What do you think would be best to use? I have lead and WW. Which do you feel would be better on the barrel?? I now use Zero 125 JSP store bought bullet's. I figured I should ask before I started buying. I'm not sure which mold to buy yet so if you have any advice on that, I would like to hear it also.

[Saint]

Sounds like we are in the same situation at the moment, I do know that your gonna want to use harder lead as the softer lead will definitely cause leading, what i would really like to know is if you need to go any harder than straight water dropped ww. I will be going out friday to buy a manual which I am told is very important. I have never done reloading and in the little time that i have been researching it I have found that it bears little resemblance to muzzleloading. I was very surprised to find out that you want to avoid compressing the powder in a cartridge and that you want to leave some airspace otherwise the pressures can get too high, this is a huge no no for muzzleloaders as it can cause the firearm to explode. Hope someone else can chime in to help us muzzleloaders in our foray into the world of brass.

[Pat I.]

All I ever got as house warming gifts were a set of coasters and a payment book. Good job and move often.

[hobbles]

Afternoon Saint,
So far I have found (after I re did my mags) was that for my C9 it likes 4.1 grains of titegroup with an OAL of 1.140. So that avoids the compressing problem with the cartridge. The max of that powder is 4.4. That is what titegroup told me. But I am after accuracy so 4.1 does better in mine. I think the next time I reload, I will try an OAL of 1.160 just to see what it does. I believe the max OAL for the c9 was 1.169. I'm not sure what the min was. I talked to Mr Hi point and have the min wrote down some where. He reloads his also. He uses a different brand of powder and likes a 3.8 load for his. Every brand of powder will have a different min and max of powder for your weapon. When you reload, --> get a routine down and DON"T break it<--. It is kinda easy to double load the brass if you loose concentration. That's a bad thing...

[delmar]

So i have finally been given the all clear and I am out of the hospital, i was given a Hi Point C9 9mm as a house warming gift and i am looking at starting up a reloading setup, i have not been on in months but if anyone remembers i have always been a muzzleloader person but a lot of my muzzleloaders were sold paying off the last of the hospital bills so this is probably going to be my main for a while, i still have my muzzleloader casting supplies but i need to get a setup for my 9mm now, i am looking to find a good cast boolit and i need an ultra compact reloading setup. I have been looking at a Lee Classic Loader or a Lee Hand Loader due to both price and the ability to use in my apartment where i cant fit a bench. Looking for suggestions/opinions/recommendations on what I will need to get started and opinions on the Lee loaders mentioned. Thanks.

I load .45 ACP with the Lee Loader. I like it a lot. Some folks don't like putting primers in with a mallet and a punch and tell you to spend $20 on a Lee auto prime. I just put them in with a c clamp. You are certainly not going to break any speed records with the Lee Loader but the rounds com out nice and consistent. I talked to a guy on another forum who was using it to load 9mm without lubing his cases and he had problems. Some of the rounds he made would not chamber. He claims the instructions that came with it did not mention case lube. I just know that I lube my cases and have never had that sort of problem.

To get started you need the Lee Loader in 9mm and a powder scale. A powder funnel would be nice and is really cheap. With 5000 cases I wouldn't bother buying a case trimmer right away if money is an issue. Just sort out the cases that need trimming. If the time comes when you have a bunch of cases that you cant use without trimming it will become obvious that you need to buy a case trimmer. You do, however need a good caliper so that you know whether which cases need trimmed and to measure the over all length of the round. You can get a nice digital caliper at harbor freight tools for $15

A manual is a good thing, I guess, but I get all my load data from the powder manufacturer's website.

You will find that the instructions that come with the Lee Loader don't have many nice photos so here is a good article to browse http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/51

and it wouldn't hurt to check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwr0FyJOk-4

[hobbles]

Afternoon delmar,
I hafta admit I do like my Lee setup http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/Reloadin/bench.jpg' The autoloader came with it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/Reloadin/Leeautoloader.jpg But I did hafta reset my mags. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/Reloadin/HPmagPic.jpg. I will try the lube on my cases.

[delmar]

There have been so many people willing to help me get started. I was just given about 5000 9mm cartridges and a lee classic loader from a complete stranger at the range and i just placed an order from midway for a case trimmer, a priming tool, and some case lube. So what i need to know now is where to go from here, i know i will probably need a loading manual. I know that the classic loader is not exactly the speediest way to load but i do hear good things about them. The person that gave me the brass also gave me 100 Remington 115grain FMJ bullets so I also need to find a good load for those bullets. Also i hear that there is a concern about leading the barrel while shooting cast bullets but i have a lot of lead at the moment that i would really like to use, any thoughts on this before i get a mould. Again the gun I am working with is a Hi Point C9 9mm. Thanks again for any input.

I say load that 100 rounds with the Lee Loader and you will know by the time you are done if you would rather buy a press.

[delmar]

Afternoon delmar,
I hafta admit I do like my Lee setup http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/Reloadin/bench.jpg' The autoloader came with it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/Reloadin/Leeautoloader.jpg But I did hafta reset my mags. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/Reloadin/HPmagPic.jpg. I will try the lube on my cases.

Here is how I put the primers in
http://radar.net/people/DelStacy24/post/2791708/?from=/people/DelStacy24/posts/older/2791740

[MtGun44]

"Softer lead will definitely cause leading" - Not true. Most leading is caused by TOO
HARD and UNDERSIZED boolits, esp with poor lubricant. You will probably run into accy
loss before you run into leading caused by too soft in a pistol if you have them large
enough diameter and a decent lube like 50-50 Alox-beeswax or other NRA formula lubes.

Slug your bbl and size your boolits to groove diam +.001" for a 9mm. Straight WW or
50-50 WW-Pb are usually great for pistols, altho some 9mms prefer harder water dropped WWs
due to shallow rifling and small lands. It is very common for .355 or .356 boolits to lead badly
and even tumble at 15 yds from a 9mm, almost always due to the bore being .357 or .358
and needing .358" boolits or bigger. Use a slight taper crimp, preferrably from a separate
TC die for best feeding. Check your seating depth and TC by putting a loaded round into
the dismounted bbl. Round should seat fully with very slight pressure.

Undersized boolits is THE biggest issue newbies get with 9mms. Also - no significant difference
in bbl wear with pure lead or WWts. You will never live long enough to wear out a pistol bbl
with cast lead alloy bullets, alloy will make no noticable difference on only one human lifetime.

Bill

[hobbles]

Mornin MtGun44,
Thanks for the feed back. If I read this right, you are sayin that I could use either lead of WW as long as I get the right mold for the job and lube the bullets. My pot is now full with lead but have both lead and WW cleaned and ready to go. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hobbles/castin/1st-batch.jpg . I guess I should make some up of one kind and try them, that will tell me what my weapon likes. And cleanin my weapon should be no BIG difference. that part I was worried about.
Any and all feed back is still welcomed, I was a lot younger when I was smarter.

[Saint]

"Softer lead will definitely cause leading" - Not true. Most leading is caused by TOO
HARD and UNDERSIZED boolits, esp with poor lubricant. You will probably run into accy
loss before you run into leading caused by too soft in a pistol if you have them large
enough diameter and a decent lube like 50-50 Alox-beeswax or other NRA formula lubes.

Slug your bbl and size your boolits to groove diam +.001" for a 9mm. Straight WW or
50-50 WW-Pb are usually great for pistols, altho some 9mms prefer harder water dropped WWs
due to shallow rifling and small lands. It is very common for .355 or .356 boolits to lead badly
and even tumble at 15 yds from a 9mm, almost always due to the bore being .357 or .358
and needing .358" boolits or bigger. Use a slight taper crimp, preferrably from a separate
TC die for best feeding. Check your seating depth and TC by putting a loaded round into
the dismounted bbl. Round should seat fully with very slight pressure.

Undersized boolits is THE biggest issue newbies get with 9mms. Also - no significant difference
in bbl wear with pure lead or WWts. You will never live long enough to wear out a pistol bbl
with cast lead alloy bullets, alloy will make no noticable difference on only one human lifetime.

Bill

Everything I have read so far says not to crimp 9mm as it can be dangerous, something to do with headspace and the cartridge going too far into the barrel. I hope i will understand this a little better once i get my manual.

I have already sized about 100 rounds with the classic loader and it wasnt too bad, fortunately i won't have to worry about pounding primers in as i did buy a lee priming tool. Still no primers to test that yet though as I still dont know what im doing enough to start. I still havent bought powder or primers as i dont know what to use yet. Does 9mm use small pistol or large pistol primers? There is a lot more to this than i thought.

[hobbles]

Afternoon Saint,
I use small pistol primers and the auto primer is cool, just put the 100 in and shake it a lil and all the primers will turn over, then put the cap on. I did 300 in about 20 minutes.
I also got this tumbler. I like that also.. http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&src=iMSTR07&prodID=PH645880

[MtGun44]

Saint,

Your info on not crimping 9mm is incorrect. I suppose that an extreme roll crimp
might possibly let the cartridge go deeper than normal, but there would be no
significant safety implications. You will need to remove the flare in the case mouth
to get the cartridge to fully seat in the chamber. This should be done with a taper
crimp die, ideally as a seperate process. Actually, 9mm is a tapered cartridge,
so is particularly unlikely to go seriously too deep into the chamber.

9mm Parabellum takes small pistol primers.

Get that loading manual and read it carefully. They are goldmines of info. Once you have
read it over, post any questions here.

Good luck, be careful, follow the instructions and don't 'color outside the lines'.

Bill

[Saint]

well i got the rest of the supplies i need minus the primers. it has been impossible to find them locally and i dont want to pay the ridiculous shipping costs. guess i will just have to wait or pay the 50 dollars? Im not comfortable buying more than a thousand primers since im not sure if i'll stick with it.

On a side not I got teh 50 dollar rotary tumbler from Harbor Freight and I was having a hard time finding media so I checked the kitchen cupboard and found an expired bag of corn meal. After about 2 hours the cases were spotless except for the primer pockets because they got jammed full of media. A quick shot of compressed air took care of that though and a primer pocket cleaner would still be needed. I still have nothing to compare too though but I'll let everyone know what happens once i get actual media.

[runfiverun]

get walnut media in the walmart or local petstore they call it lizard bedding.
the 4.1 of titegroup is exactly what i use in my 9mm lead loads.
i size my 9mm's at 358 for my two norinco's and the taurus i had.
i also use the 358 size in my boy's hipoint carbine with the 124 boolits.
it has to be one of the funnest guns around.
these are done with a taper crimp not a roll crimp as the case headspaces on the case mouth.
don't seat the boolits any deeper than you have to as the case is small and pressure can build quickly.

[Saint]

Every time I think that I am ready I find something else i missed, I got out the primer tool and realized that i forgot to get the shell holder. Fortunately I managed to get down to Cabelas and picked up the shell holder, some corn cob media and a lee powder scale (not liking the scale). Used the corn cob media on some more cases and it seems that in the rotary tumbler the corn meal works better. The scale is really inconsistent but I guess I got what was coming to me for buying a 20 dollar powder scale. I finally summoned the courage to place an order for some primers too so in about a month I should be ready to start, I ordered 2k so I should be good for a little while. According to Cabelas the tentative date that they will recieve shipment of the primers will be 05/30 so I figure by June I will be able to start.

[03lover]

It is true, you do have to crimp enough to remove the bell from the case mouth. It is best to use a taper crimp die. Be careful to crimp only enough to remove the bell and or so the case mouth is .001" to .002" less than straight.

Any more crimping will reduce the bullet diameter also and excessive crimping will cause accuracy and leading problems.

Something else to to watch for is bullet retention in the brass you are using. Not all 9mm Brass is the same thickness. I find FC brass to be the thinnest and unless your sizing die is tight enough, and depending on your bullet diameter, the bullet may not be held tight enough to resist being pushed back into the case during the pistol loading cycle. This can and does cause pressure spikes that are not good and accuracy problems.

A test I always perform with my loads is to use a couple of unprimed, no powder casings prepared the same as the ones I intend to load, seat the bullets and crimp. Then I place the bullet nose against the edge of my loading bench and press on the base of the cartridge with my thumb and with my other hand on my thumb. I press as hard as I can and if the bullet is pushed farther into the case, it isn't tight enough for an auto loader pistol.

R-P 9mm brass is considrably thicker and I have never had a problem with bullets too loose, even with .355" diameter jacketed bullets. The opposite is true with the FC brass. I have no less the four different 9mm sizing dies and not a one of them can produce a case tight enough for the .355" jacketed bullets in FC brass, even when the expander is turned down so it doesn't expand at all, only bells.

Winchester brass has worked well for me also. My supply of FC brass is reserved for cast bullets, .3565" to .357" diameter. My 9mm has a tight bore and chamber and I can't go bigger than .357" or I start to have failures to go into battery. Even then, I have to use my 9mm RCBS steel sizer and lube the brass or use my RCBS carbide sizer followed with a .380 Auto carbide die for 3/16". With this FC brass, the only way I can get the bullets held tight enough is to reduce the case mouth outside diameter to .370" for most of the depth the bullet will be seated to. The brass being thin does not reduce the cast bullet diameter.

I would have scrapped the FC brass if I didn't have so darn much of it. I decided to find a way to use it and it does work well for me.

Good luck.

[Saint]

Well my financial situation has improved so I decided to spend the money on a reloading press and dies. Picked up the hornady classic lock and load press and rcbs 3 piece carbide set. I am genuinely concerned that we may be heading for times the likes of which we havent seen since civil war times and I want a decent supply of ammo so i hope this equipment delivers. What are the thoughts on my press and die choices?

[Bret4207]

Fine press, fine dies. On your alloy, or the other guys I forget which- straight WW alloy is the place to start. Don't try straight lead, if I read it right one of you was thinking about that. Use the WW and try it air cooled with loads in the 850- 900 fps range to start. get the hang of the game before you decide to up the ante.

[Saint]

Rejoice with me brothers for my time has finally come. Went down to the local gun shop and they had primers in stock. Price was steep but i still grabbed the limit of 1000 primers. Total cost was 50 and change but it still comes out cheaper than the current ammo prices in my area, that is assuming one can find 9mm here. I am gonna start once i decide on a starter load. At the moment i have plenty of brass and I picked up 500 CCI and 500 WIN primers but the only powder i could come up with is Unique. Will this work to push a 124 grain Hornady XTP HP. And if so can someone point me to a reference for some load data. My manual doesn't have many 9mm recipes in it.

[Saint]

So I found some good loads from the Alliant website and loaded a few. I found that I was getting a very inconsistent crimp. What I did to eliminate the problem was move the seating pin lower so as to eliminate the crimp entirely and after loading all of my round i removed the pin entirely and crimped all of the rounds in a separate process. Also I should mention that I am not using the flaring die either. Does anyone see any potential problems with these methods.

[delmar]

Rejoice with me brothers for my time has finally come. Went down to the local gun shop and they had primers in stock. Price was steep but i still grabbed the limit of 1000 primers. Total cost was 50 and change but it still comes out cheaper than the current ammo prices in my area, that is assuming one can find 9mm here. I am gonna start once i decide on a starter load. At the moment i have plenty of brass and I picked up 500 CCI and 500 WIN primers but the only powder i could come up with is Unique. Will this work to push a 124 grain Hornady XTP HP. And if so can someone point me to a reference for some load data. My manual doesn't have many 9mm recipes in it.

Here you go! http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=23

[Saint]

Yup. That was the load data i used. I have three different loads ready to try. All with the 124 gr. xtp. 5.0 gr., 5.4 gr., and 5.8 gr. with cci primers. I am hoping a full 8 round mag of each will be enough to do some testing. How much difference will primers make, will it be worth it to load duplicate rounds with the Winchester primers. You guys are awesome. I love this site.

[Saint]

Well got my first opportunity to try out some of my new loads. Was having horrible feeding problems. I think that it may be due to a little too much crimp causing the case to move too close to the rifling. I started flaring my cases because I was finding that I was crushing too many cartridges while ramming the bullet. I think next batch I am gonna just crimp enough to remove the bell. Other than the feeding problems I did notice that the 5.0 grain with CCI primer was noticeably more accurate and consistent than the 5.0 with Winchester primer. Much testing is still needed but through all of the rounds tested I found that the CCI primers performed better so I think that I will stick to that brand of primer for the time being. On a side note I do have a lot of ammo I need to tear down now and can't find a lot of info on how to go about doing it. If I pull the bullet and empty the powder can i resize the case while it is still primed, also if not how do I remove the live primer? What parts of the round can generally be kept?

[MtGun44]

No problem reusing the case. Leave the primer, remove the decapping rod from the
sizing die, resize, then re-expand and go on.

Inertia bullet pullers work fine and are universal, but the collet type are the way to go
to salvage the bullet and go faster. I have never pulled cast boolits with a collet type puller,
but it should work OK, just may damage it more than a jacketed bullet.

Bill