38 S&W in 38 Spec.

[DLCTEX]

I picked up some brass in a public shooting area a while back and included was 5 38 S&W. I decided to try them in my Charter Bulldog and loaded them with 3 gr. Bullseye and topped them with Lee's 125 gr. boolit. I fired them from my deck at some golfball sized objects at 25 yds. All hits. Just 5 rounds, but the best I've done with this pistol and that boolit. I have to experiment with more. I used 9mm dies to load them and flared them with a 223 case tapped with a plastic hammer. I have an old set of 38 dies that I may cut off if it proves to be a winner and 38 Spec. cases with split mouths may be trimmed to S&W lenght for more brass. I have a Lee universal case expander somewhere.

[jdgabbard]

I'm working up something similar. The 9mm Rim. Basically cutting off 38spl brass to 9mm length, sizing with a standard 38spl sizer die, and flare with the 9mm. Then seating and crimping with the 9mm.

Everyone told me I'd have terrible results. So far, I'm actually on the money.

[HeavyMetal]

You do realize thats the 9mm Federal?

[9.3X62AL]

I reload both 38 S&W and 38 Special, and while I haven't tried the shorter case in the longer chamber, I don't know why it wouldn't work as well as the 38 Special does in 357 Magnum chambers. Just be aware that the 38 S&W casing starts life about .005"-.006" fatter than the 38 Special, and the case sidewalls on the 38 S&W might be a little thicker on some makes. Once processed with 38 Special sizer and expander dies, the 38 S&W cases should accept 38 Special-sized boolits without much trouble.

The only snags I can think of concern 1) the depth of some expander plugs used in 38 Special die sets--they can bump into the internal taper of the shorter cases before a good flare is made at the case mouth. A shortening or re-countouring of the plug can address this issue.

The other complication (2) is the seater die--its roll crimp sleeve is too far up the 38 Special seater die's interior to apply a good crimp to the 38 S&W case. Shortening a 38 Special seater die is one route to address this issue, or a 38 S&W seater die can be ordered from most die makers. Be aware that single-die prices can be nearly as much as buying a die set, so "caveat emptor". If you can live with taper-crimping, the 9mm Luger sizer die minus decapping rod can be adjusted to do a fine job of taper-crimping the 38 S&W cartridges.

[DLCTEX]

The 38 S&W cases were indeed fatter than 38 Spec. I sized them to the rim by removing the primer punch from a 38 S die and then tapping the cases in with a plastic hammer. I then used a primer seating punch from a 30 cal. Lee hand loader to back thr cases out. I tried 3 gr. BE again today, then the same load in 38 Spec. cases. They shot close to the same, with possibly the edge going to the 38 S&W cases for accuracy. There isn't enough difference to cause me to go to the trouble of obtaining more S&W cases for my plinking. Three grains of BE is easy to measure with Lee powder scoops, just level the .3cc scoop.

[StarMetal]

My old Model 19 S&W will chamber and shoot 357's, 38 S's, 38 S&W's, and 38 Super's. Will no problems what so ever.

Joe

[jdgabbard]

You do realize thats the 9mm Federal?

No I didn't realize there was such a factory round. However, the article on Castpics refers to it as 9mm Rim or 9mm Special...one of the two. However, I'm not sizing mine to 9mm I'm just using the 9mm die to crimp. Sizing is done with the .38spl die.

Tried googling and yahoo'ing the 9mm Federal, almost nothing on it. Pretty much just says (almost verbatim) "people yawned"

[Sprue]

Was out to the range today and an aquaintence friend brought an old pistol with him to shoot. I remember him saying to someone off in the distant, that a friend of his found this old gun in an atttic of a deceased family member....

...later on he came by and stated the he had some stuck cases that he couldn't get out of the cylinder. I took a piece of wooden dial rod and drove out 5 fired cases. After I drove out the first one I new by looking at the case what had happened. The first case was split all the way to the case head. All of thenm were pretty hard to get out. I didn't need to look at the caliber stamping on the bbl. I told him, look at the stamping on the bbl, I bet it says 38 SW don't it...... his ammo was new 38 spl.

He ask me what kind of pistol he had, I told him it was a pre 10. BTW, what year is a pre 10 ? It either Pre 1957 or 1955 isn't it ?(without looking it up)?

[HeavyMetal]

Your friend might have one of those smiths that were/ was converted to 38 special from 38 S&W after they were returned to smith on the lend lease program.

Thousands of these flooded the country in the late 40's early 50's and no one wanted them until they became 38 special's.

The description of split case's is prime evidence that is what happened here but with out checking the markings on the gun It's really a guess.

You might want to do a double chweck if only to keep him from hurting himself the converted Victory models might not be strong enough for a constant diet of Special rounds!

[Buckshot]

..............A S&W Victory model is certainly capable of handling the 38 Special, as that is what they were made to handle. Those made for the British Commonwealth during WWII had the standard 38 Special length cylinders chambered for the shorter 38 S&W. In addition they had barrels with dimensions to agree with the 38 S&W boolit OD vs the 38 Special.

You can use 38 Special load data in a 38 S&W chambered Victory model if you can meet the same internal case capacities of the 38 Special in the shorter 38 S&W case. I did not spend much time looking, but the Lyman Cast Bullet manual does show just such a load. It is in the 38 Special section. It is the Lyman 35863 (150 WC) seated flush to the casemouth in the 38 Special case.

With this, or a lighter WC boolit seated to and crimped into the bottom lube groove, as below:

http://www.fototime.com/3B773CE97D573A2/standard.jpg

Cartridge 2nd from left maintains the same OAL as the 38 Special at 1.115" as shown in the Lyman book. Safe to use in the Victory model as pressures don't exceed that of the 38 Special it was originally chambered for. While the British Enfield can also stand the pressure, I believe the OAL may be too long for their cylinders.

..............Buckshot

[sargenv]

If you want to use shorter cases in a 38 spl (or 357 Mag) you can use 38 short colt and 38 long colt. We have local ICORE shooters who load long 170 gr RN bullets into 38 short colt for competition. The advantage being a shorter case to come out of the cylinder and likely a faster reload..

[Bret4207]

Dale- that Charter BD is in 38? Isn;t that the "Undercover" or did they do a run of BD labeled 38's?

[DLCTEX]

I don't know much about it, it's marked "Police Bulldog 38 Special". I came by it from a friend who bought it from a fellow who had gotten a felony conviction and had to dispose of it quickly. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I initially planned to sell it at a profit, but the whole family enjoys shooting it, so it stays.

[Tom Herman]

Your friend might have one of those smiths that were/ was converted to 38 special from 38 S&W after they were returned to smith on the lend lease program.

Thousands of these flooded the country in the late 40's early 50's and no one wanted them until they became 38 special's.

The description of split case's is prime evidence that is what happened here but with out checking the markings on the gun It's really a guess.

Thanks for the "heads up" on this! The conversion makes sense, but has problems due to the difference in diameter between the .38 S&W and .38 SPL case sizes (.007"). I can see why the cases split. Reloading the .38 SPL casings used in such conversions would really work the brass. I'll avoid converted revolvers like the plague.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Bret4207]

I don't know much about it, it's marked "Police Bulldog 38 Special". I came by it from a friend who bought it from a fellow who had gotten a felony conviction and had to dispose of it quickly. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I initially planned to sell it at a profit, but the whole family enjoys shooting it, so it stays.

Ah, I think that's an older one. I recall seeing the ad's years back now that you mention the whole name. Thanks.