"so much for the reliability of revolvers..."

[exile]

I confess to being a bit hacked off at the moment. In March of 2008 I purchased a Smith and Wesson 686 with a five inch barrel and a non-fluted cylinder. It was a special order from Lipsey's and I was very fortunate to walk into the gunshop at the right time and find it there. I am ashamed to say I have only put 232 rounds through it in a year, all 158 grain semi-wadcutters over 4.1 grains of Unique. Now the cylinder latch will not open about 75 percent of the time.

I contacted Smith and Wesson and they assure me that there is a lifetime warranty on this gun. The shame of it is, I live 20 minutes from Cylinder and Slide and they used to be a Smith and Wesson warranty center but are not any more. The nice lady at Smith said she will e-mail me a shipping label. The kicker is, she said "Don't tell UPS it is a handgun, they will give you grief." That makes me uncomfortable.

On top of that, I just purchased 600 rounds of brass and two Lee bullet molds for the gun and was planning on shooting it quite a bit in the near future. I have some health problems that prevent me from getting out as often as I would like, so this is somewhat of a big deal for me.

I was also planning on selling a Glock 32 and purchasing another revolver, thinking that as a car gun a revolver would be more reliable at close range than a semi-auto. I certainly will not do that now. I have owned semi-auto's for 20 years and never had a bit of trouble with them. People have always told me if you can only have one handgun it should be a stainless four-inch .357 magnum, due to reliability, versatility, availability of ammunition, and so on and so on. So, I bought one. The guy at the gunshop I frequent said in his opinion the quality of Smith and Wesson products have gone down over the years, I guess he was right.

Due to the current political climate, etc., I am particularly unhappy to have what should be the most reliable gun in my home out of my possession. As you can tell, I am just pissed off and need to vent, I don't suppose anyone can tell me anything, it just is what it is. Thanks for listening.

exile

[StarMetal]

I can understand how you feel. My best friend recently bought one of those super light Taurus in a snubby 22 rimfire magnum. It's a seven shot. Well he got around to shooting it last week and it was totally unreliable. Some rounds wouldn't fire, some bound up the cylinder, and others wouldn't eject. Geesh...wouldn't want to stake my life on that revolver either. I've had automatics for more years that I care to admit and with the proper fitting ammo, clean pistol, etc., I feel they are very very reliable.

Good luck on getting your revolver back into working order. If it's any comfort to you I have an older Model 19 Smith and it's totally reliable. Same as for my older Model 25 and a new Model 617. Sometimes everyone makes a lemon.

Joe

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
The cylinder shaft is possibly unscrewing. My Mogel 19-3 has a history of doing that as it unscrews from the cylinder it ends farther into the pin in the barrel lug. Every 100 rounds I try and remember to check mine and retighten it with a leather padded parralel pliers.
Mike in Peru

[exile]

I hear you. I have had a Smith and Wesson Mountain gun for several years and have not had any trouble with it. They are both key lock models, but the 629 opens very smoothly every time. I did pull out the key lock and work it several times and then it opened, but now it will not again. It opened sporadically before that as well, so I am still not sure what the deal is. I have had a little trouble opening it in the past, but since my last post have not been able to get it open at all.

I called Cylinder and Slide, but will not be able to speak to them until Monday. I may take it in and have them look at it, but I know they do a tremendous amount of work and their backlog may be as much as a year. I would almost rather pay them and not be deprived of the gun than be without it and not pay a bill. Again, we shall see what happens.

exile

[fourarmed]

If it is the ejector rod unscrewing, remember that they have left-handed threads.

[exile]

Thanks for the info. If I can get the cylinder open once more, I will give that a try. Prayers would be appreciated.

exile

[JW6108]

Good afternoon
The cylinder shaft is possibly unscrewing. My Mogel 19-3 has a history of doing that as it unscrews from the cylinder it ends farther into the pin in the barrel lug. Every 100 rounds I try and remember to check mine and retighten it with a leather padded parralel pliers.
Mike in Peru

Mike's got it; I would bet that is what is happening. Mine did the same thing once after I had disassembled the cylinder for an annual scrub up. When putting it back together, I should have degreased the threads, and yes they are left hand. Replacing with padded pliers (not too tight) is also good advice.

[Dale53]

It is almost certainly the ejector rod. After you get it open, unscrew the rod, clean the threads carefully. Then use "Blue" loc-tite (242) and just a DROP on the threads. Screw it back together and that should be a permanent fix for it.

Remember, it is a left hand thread.

Dale53

[exile]

Praise the Lord. My wife and I prayed that the cylinder latch would open one more time and it did. I tightened the ejector rod gently by hand (thanks for the tip about which way to turn) and it worked great. It was very loose and I turned it several times before it tightened up. I will remember to do this before and after shooting it in the future. I have said it before and will say it again, you guys are great! We were just heading to the farm to shoot and may now take the 686 instead of the Glock. Thanks again for the information. I have always felt that any day you learn something, it is a good day. I am the most mechanically deficient person on the planet, but thanks to you, my problem is solved. Thanks again.

exile

[StarMetal]

Praise the Lord. My wife and I prayed that the cylinder latch would open one more time and it did. I tightened the ejector rod gently by hand (thanks for the tip about which way to turn) and it worked great. It was very loose and I turned it several times before it tightened up. I will remember to do this before and after shooting it in the future. I have said it before and will say it again, you guys are great! We were just heading to the farm to shoot and may now take the 686 instead of the Glock. Thanks again for the information. I have always felt that any day you learn something, it is a good day. I am the most mechanically deficient person on the planet, but thanks to you, my problem is solved. Thanks again.

exile

Actually the way to tighten (or loosen it) is to place two empty cases in the cylinder opposing one another so the ejector/extractor star doesn't get damaged when you tighten it....with the leather padded plier jaws. Me, I'd put some Blue Loc-Tite on it to insure it didn't work loose again. Not to worry as this is a part you're not normally going to take apart.

Joe

[anachronism]

Don't just tighten it periodically, FIX IT! Clean both sets of threads with brake cleaner & Loc-Tite is as recommended above. Just a drop of Blue will probably take care of it forever.

[missionary5155]

Howdy again Some places Locktite is not available (like Lower Peru) . Next time I come back down that is on my BRING list. I have used Super Glue and it works for awhile.
Mike in Peru

[frank505]

My new Model 22 S&W had two problems, one the cylinder mouths were chamfered and there was some thread choke. I called S&W got my shipping label, recieved the gun back in about a month with a new cylinder and no thread choke. Seems to shoot pretty good, need better weather to get serious. I would say I am very happy with their service and to hell with ups and their antigun policies, like making us pay for their employees stealing. I refuse to do any business with them.

[sargenv]

I had the same issue on a 610-2 many years ago. A drop of blue loc-tite and that was solved. I had to recently unscrew the ejector rod to install a .002" cylinder spacer.. I forgot that it was a left handed thread until a friend reminded me of that.. oops.. and once viced, it unscrewed with a little effort. It is back to being loc-tited.. I use that 610-2 for USPSA and ICORE.. it is my main revolver and my current favorite..

[Tom Herman]

Glad that you got it part and tightened up! I had the same thing happen to my Second Model Hand Ejector in .455 Webley....

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

PS: I try not to send anything back if I can help it. I bought three Ruger Redhawks in .45 LC, they ALL needed work to function correctly out fo the box!
I had a small part create a problem, i just took it to the local smith... The repair will be quicker that sending it back to Ruger again, and i won't have to worry about shipping... -T

[monadnock#5]

+6 (If I counted right) for the blue LocTite. Once you've identified a S&W that likes to unscrew itself, you will never be shut of the problem until you fix it right. StarMetal's advise on the padded vise with empty cases in the cylinder is the approved shop method.

[StarMetal]

Don't go ape poop on tightening it either. There's lots of leverage in holding that cylinder and tightening. Put the Loc-Tite on and just snug her up some.

Joe

[exile]

All great advice. What is thread choke? Not to be ignorant, but I thought having the cylinders chamfered for easy reloading was a custom option that people desired? Being as how Cylinder and Slide is only 20 minutes away, I think I will take things there first in the future before I decide on shipping out to Smith and Wesson.

Two things have occured to me in regards to this incident. The first is that, had the lady at Smith and Wesson refered me to a technician rather than just telling me to ship the gun, they surely would have known what the problem was. If I had shipped the gun in, I suppose it would not be unheard of for them to fix the problem without telling me what a simple issue it was so I could take care of it myself in the future. The second is that looking at my Ruger SP-101 in .327 Federal the ejector rod is not screwed in but simply attached. It seems that what looks like a cost-saving measure may be superior engineering after all.

I will get some Blue Lock-tite. Seems I used some red Lock-tite many years ago to secure the front sight on a Ruger Mark II with 5 1/2 inch barrel.

Thanks again.

exile

[Bret4207]

As to the reliability of revolvers- a revolver in GOOD REPAIR is generally more likely to be utterly reliable than a bottom feeder in equal repair. Given good ammo and maintenance, and a good magazine, the auto may only be marginally less reliable....

[targetshootr]

My S series 29-2 does the same thing. At first I was gonna send it somewhere till someone said to check the ejector. What a relief.

Regards the phone-answerers, they have a long list of bizarre things to say when nothing else comes to mind. The other day I tried to order some extra firing pins from Ruger and the woman insisted I give her the serial numbers of my guns. So I called Brownells who couldn't care less about serial numbers.

[Reaper]

Missionary 5155------You can use nail polish on those threads. Not quite as aggressive as blue Loctite and available darn near everywhere women are found. My neighbor glued his 629 Classic DX shut with an overzealous amount of blue Loctite. Smith and Wesson repaired it with a smile and no charge. Great company. Thankyou for doing God's work.-------Ron

[timkelley]

#137 (or whatever) for Blue Loctite, however, a pretty good substitute is a drop of maple syrup.

[jhrosier]

I don't consider the tendency of the S&W ejector rods to loosen as a reliabilty problem. The issue is so well known that not checking for it borders on carelessness.
I would never carry a S&W if I could turn the ejector rod out by hand, period. This is based on experience.


Experience is what you get when you don't get what you expected.:)

I have been shooting for nearly 45 years and have had a few failures with both revolvers and auto loaders. When it happens to your carry gun, it scares the poopies out of you. What if.......

I had a barrel bushing on a 1911 fracture. The recoil spring and plug went sailing away, rendering the gun totally useless. It was a WWI gun. It was replaced the next day with a brand new Colt MK4Series70. The old gun was repaired and used only on the range thereafter. Who would have imagined that a barrel bushing could fail without warning? I have had a couple of genuine GI issue 1911 mags that failed due to cracks at the rear of the feed lips.

A recent vintage N frame Smith failed when the hammer nose fractured and fell into the works. The gun had less than one thousand rounds through it before becoming and inefficient club.

The Ruger single actions are just about as tough as you can get. I have one favorite that is much used, but not abused. One day the bolt plunger broke, rendering the gun instantly and completely useless. Darn good thing there aren't many grizzle bears in Massachusetts. This is only one of my three dozen or so Ruger single actions and I have never had this happen with another. Some of them have nearly uncountable thousands of rounds fired.

Springs, extractors, firing pins, these things can all fail without warning, on any gun.
Aside from good maintenance and thorough cleaning there is very little that a person can do to prevent these sort of problems.
Buying the best quality gun that you can afford and checking it out carefully is all you can do.
BTW, I still buy Colts, Smiths, Sigs and Rugers simply because there is nothing better.

Revolver or autoloader? I would say that they are about equal in reliability.

Jack

[kingstrider]

I've had the same problem with a 686 but nothing that I couldn't fix. I'm sort of in the same boat though, I have a PPK/S that has been recalled and I'm reluctant to send it in for repair. I've never had a problem with the gun and with the way things are going, I'm afraid of sending it to S&W only to have them keep it forever due to backup, or worse.

[mooman76]

As to the reliability of revolvers- a revolver in GOOD REPAIR is generally more likely to be utterly reliable than a bottom feeder in equal repair. Given good ammo and maintenance, and a good magazine, the auto may only be marginally less reliable....

I tend to agree there and might add one that is proven reliable after firing a good amount of rounds. I too had problem with a new revolver and din't realize how complicated the new ones are until I tried to take it apart and fix it. Mine was a Taurus SS which I found out SS are nice but also have their own problems sometimes with threads. I had several problems and finally sold it. I'd rather have an older one that has gone through the breakin and proof of reliability.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My S series 29-2 does the same thing. At first I was gonna send it somewhere till someone said to check the ejector. What a relief.

Regards the phone-answerers, they have a long list of bizarre things to say when nothing else comes to mind. The other day I tried to order some extra firing pins from Ruger and the woman insisted I give her the serial numbers of my guns. So I called Brownells who couldn't care less about serial numbers.

She was probably getting them to be sure she sent the right ones rather than anything else. She'd probably been caught that way with another part that did require the serial numbers.

Maybe it was just an efficent female thing, this space on the form is for the serial number Yep! fill er' in.

Doesn't have to make sense, but it probably made sense to her.

[flinchnjerk]

When your Smith won't open, it's almost certain that the ejector rod's unscrewed. To open it... muzzle downrange, twice around the cylinder, single-action, to be SURE that it's empty. Then jam something between the shroud and the knurled part of the ejector rod (the fat end tooth of a plastic comb works well). Thumb the hammer about half-way back until you see that the bolt's dropped clear of the cylinder. Then turn the cylinder by hand until you feel the rod bottom in the cylinder. The rod's screwed back in and you can then open the gun. I'll reinforce the advice about putting a couple of fired hulls in the cylinder to support the extractor star when using pliers or a vise to crank the rod down. The star's tiny locator pins are easy to bend or even shear.

[jt1]

I'm not sure exactly when they made the change, but the newer Smiths don't have the locator pins on the star. When you check the carry up, or tighten the ejector rod, it's important to put some fired cases in the chambers to index the star to the cylinder. Some, but not all models have an angle on the ends of the star to improve indexing, but it only works in the direction of cylinder rotation.


John

[shooting on a shoestring]

"100% Reliability" means it hasn't been shot enough to get the first FTF. Guns, ammo, people, all screw up sometime, just a matter of how often.

The only thing I've seen work 100% of the time is gravity.

[targetshootr]

She was probably getting them to be sure she sent the right ones rather than anything else. She'd probably been caught that way with another part that did require the serial numbers.

Maybe it was just an efficent female thing, this space on the form is for the serial number Yep! fill er' in.

Doesn't have to make sense, but it probably made sense to her.

She said they also list firing pins for old models but they're not for sale. So I asked what was the difference in the new and old model firing pins and that's when the shtf. Even though I wanted them for new model guns she wouldn't sell them unless I gave her serial numbers. Of course I was 20 miles from home when she called but still, to her, I had asked the wrong question. And she wouldn't let me talk to her manager so now I shop elsewhere.

[JudgeBAC]

After your cylinder rod unscrews itself make sure you check the threads. My 29-10 unscrewed several times. They are a bitch to open when they unscrew and lock up the cylinder. At any rate, a .44 mag fired several times when the rod was unknowingly unscrewed messed up the threads on the rod. So I called Smith and ordered a new rod and ejector just in case the threads on it are messed up.

[exile]

fingernail polish and maple syrup. Wow

exile

[jack19512]

The only thing I've seen work 100% of the time is gravity.







There are some places where even gravity doesn't work 100%. :)

[StrawHat]

fingernail polish and maple syrup. Wow

exile


Never tried maple syrup but I know finger polish works. So do the various "super" glues. If you ever need to unscrew the joint after sealing it, a small bit of heat works to break the sealant. I have sealed all the S&W revolvers I ever owned to prevent that from happening.

Good luck

[Ron B.]

Exile,
I be a huge wheel fan; especially Smiths. Never pulled the trigger on one I did not like. Perfect? Hades no! But, if my life depended on the next bullet being fired, I'd want a Smith in my hands. I own Glocks (2), Sigs, (4), H&Ks (3), Berettas (2) Browning HPs (2); and guess what? I prefer shooting any of my Smith revolvers;any day.

GRB

[softpoint]

Don't go ape poop on tightening it either. There's lots of leverage in holding that cylinder and tightening. Put the Loc-Tite on and just snug her up some.

Joe

I have a little tool from Brownell's made just to tighten the cylinder pin on Smith's. Inexpensive, and prevents any chance of marring the pin. :Fire: