paper or check and lube?

[roylowell]

Hi there Guess I'm looking for some advice too. I'd like to try some cast bullets oops boolits in 3 rifles. Marlin 1895 45-70, Remington 700 .308, Ruger #1 .338 Win Mag. I am thinking full power loads in all three so my first question is do I use paper patch or is it practicle to shoot a gas checked boolit that fast? Guess I'm assumeing I need to paper patch so next question is can I cast a normal sized boolit, wrap it a couple times in traceing paper, then lube and size in my rcbs lube sizer and shoot it or will I have to size to a smaller size before patching? I supose this is too many topics for 1 post but... It seems like everybody has their own opinion on what paper to use. Traceing paper or lens paper makes the most sense to me but it sounds like some people use copy paper or printer paper so I'm still wondering what to use?

[docone31]

First off, those are tried and true boolitts. Almost all of us riflemen here use them.
The 45/70, great paper patcher, and gas checker.
.308, I paper patch it and love it.
.338 Win Mag, you are going to have to throttle it back some for either cast or paper patched.
The 45/70,
There are established sizes both unwrapped, and wrapped. Some real competitive shooters are conversant in them. They are listed on the paper patching thread, along with powder charges that work.
.308. I do not like the cast performance. I paper patch the .308. I first size the .30cal casting to .308, then two wraps of printer paper, size that to .309. A winner for me all day long. Start load data with that technique. I am referring to start load data for jacketeds.
The .338, I do not know. I have heard some of us wrapping it, and shooting it as cast with sizing and a check. With paper, you are going to develop some pretty fast loads though.
You got some winners there. There is a learning curve to paper patching, so be patient. I also have designated alloy for patching, with zinc added. Full tilt loads and no key holeing at 100yds.
You do not lube paper patched loads. I use a tad of Auto Wax, or JPW to size, and that is it. You can use your sizer without lube, however, I find the Lee Push Thru Sizing System handier for my needs. Pretty inexpensive also, that is what I use.
Read the forum, I have a feeling you will find a winner.

[pdawg_shooter]

In your 45.70 a bare bullet will work fine, IF you cast hard enough. With paper you can use pure lead an have an awesome game bullet. In your 308 and 338 if you want full velocity loads paper is the only way to go. With a BHN of 18 3000fps is attainable, with accuracy comparable to jacketed bullet loads.

[missionary5155]

Good morning & Welcome !!!
How heavy a boolit are you going to launch in the 45-70 ?
If this is a 300 grain at 2000+ Go with the PP and soft lead Or WW Water Dropped with a GC. Use a GOOD Lube with the GC model.
The heavier the Boolit things change as far as a need to PP. BUT if you are going High Pressure rounds you might as well have a GC on the bottom. Bare Lead can only handle so much pressure no mattter how hard it is.
In my 45-70 Winny I can launch 350 grainers at about 1600 Bare bottom. And realisticly that is more Power than 17 million+ Buffs were exterminated with. But when the "got to phisicly rearange my anatomy" urge strikes a 400 grain GC at near 1900fps is available. But my 155 pounds does not need that to often.
But generally with my cast loads if 1600 fps is not enough power I just step up to what ever caliber gets me to the SMASHER I need. And there is not to much that can take a .685 Round ball at 1600 fps that I need to worry about. If there is I will just have to load a .720 and let -er fly. But those get right Smashing on my end too.
Mike in Peru

[pdawg_shooter]

After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for my Marlin 1895g. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first ¾ inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 ½ parts linotype, and ½ part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451 and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60* angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with LLA. The next day the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 55 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. I’ll not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection?

[windrider919]

pdawg shooter - That load sounded familiar so I looked in my records and found I had tried one very close. Same bullet, Rem LR primer, same powder but at 54 gr of AA2495 with two 1/16" cork wads and one .030 PE wad. All I noted in my load record was that it was "no leading, ex group". Now I have standardized on H4895 as it gave me the best accuracy with almost any bullet.

[roylowell]

I got wound up last night and tried to cook up some lube and cast a few boolits. Have a couple new lee molds so I tryed them out. A C309-170-f and a 459-405-HB. I had a little trouble getting the 459 to fill out without wrinkles and I don't have a sizeing die for it so didn't mess with it much. Got a few decent boolites out of the 309 so I took em to the house and tried to patch them. Seems like it took a while to figure out how to get my fingers out of the way and get the paper on the boolit. I used 2 wraps of 25# traceing paper. Tore the tail off a few before I got the hang of that. How long a tail should I leave? I made em pretty short so there wasn't much to get hold of. This morning I cliped the tails with a side cutter, smered on a little JPW and tried to run em through my rcbs lube-sizer. It didn't work to bad but seems like the lube holes in the die are cutting the patch on the return stroke. I wondered if I had put a little pressure on the lube if it would have been enough to keep the paper out of the holes but I ran out of boolits before I thought to try that. Don't know if its worth trying to load and shoot em with damaged patches or not. Do I just need to get some push through sizeing dies? Will I have to size em down a little before I put the patch on? I was hopeing to skip that step. My wife brought a C338-220-1r mold home for me tonight so I'll have to give that a try one of these days. Don't have a size die for it either and I ordered a 460-425 from Ranch Dog so I'll have that to mess with too.

[windrider919]

I found that in casting big bullets you need to cast hot to get full fill-out. And that having 2% to 3% tin helps a LOT! Then, you have to cast a little slower to let the lead cool and harden enough before opening the mould. I drop into water so the hot 'soft' bullets do not deform as they land. To further slow them down I cover the bucket with a towel that hangs down into the water several inches. A slit lets the bullet roll through. Four gallons of water will not get too hot with 500 bullets. Secure the towel with a ring of rubber from an inner tube.

As per tails, I stopped having tailes and went to a smaller patch that I roll across the bottom. Look at some of the past threads and there are lots of pictures and rolling descriptions. finally, let your PP dry longer and it might stand the sizer die better.

I do NOT normally size either my core bullets or the PP bullet. My core bullet is just the right size and patched is perfect size. I got into PP for economy but found that I get better accuracy from PP than cast GG (w/ or w/out GC) or jacketed.

[pdawg_shooter]

I prefer to size my bullets to bore diameter +.001/.0015 and wrap with 16# printer paper. I no longer have a lube sizer, a push through gives much better results.