Anyone shoot cast bullets in a M1 ?

[Dave B]

I've got an M1 coming soon, and I was wondering if I would have any luck with cast bullets.

[missionary5155]

Good morning Do a search here and you should find numerous loads.
I use the 180 gr RCBS GC Fn in all my cal.30 rifles and they shoot rather well.
Mike in Peru

[BruceB]

More specifically, search on the "CB Loads/Military Rifles" Board, just a short distance down the list of forums.

Search for "M1", for "Garand", and also just scroll down the list of threads to see what may have been posted which might apply to autoloading rifles in general.

YES, you can shoot cast loads successfully in the Garand. We've been doing it for decades. 'Bout time you joined the club!!!

[sheepdog]

One point to mention: You need full length dies. You can't neck size in an automatic or you'll get feed/extraction issues.

[Larry Gibson]

One point to mention: You need full length dies. You can't neck size in an automatic or you'll get feed/extraction issues.

Get the RCBS X-die (regular not SB) and you'll also avoid having to trim the cases. It is a FL die.

Larry Gibson

[Shiloh]

My buddy has on in '06 and another in .308.

Both shoot cast very well. I believe that he uses the RCBS small base dies on the one in '06.

Shiloh

[TAWILDCATT]

I am going to try my 1903 load but know it will not work the action.which is alright.
got a garand carbine in 308 that will be next.then full loads meaning work the action .:coffee:[smilie=1:

[jonk]

M1 what? Everyone seems to be assuming Garand. Or is it a carbine?

[BruceB]

Quote: "....then full loads meaning work the action."

TA, you MUST do some reading on this subject. You will not obtain good cast-bullet performance in your Garand with "full loads". Cast loads are very different from jacketed ones, and trying to simply substitute cast bullets for jacketed ones in a given load will lead to immediate failure and a horrible mess in your rifle.

The Garand doesn't care one bit about what might or might not work in someone's imagination. The single factor which determines functionality (or lack of it) is the PRESSURE AT THE GAS PORT, along with safe pressure levels in the chamber. You can forget all about the "recommended" medium-speed powders being the only types that will work. Remember, cast bullets are different! It doesn't matter HOW we develop a workable gas-port pressure, just that we actually find a load that safely creates the oomph we need. Those medium-speed powders will indeed work quite well with cast bullets, but NOT in the same quantities as used in the full-power jacketed loads.

Search here for the "BobS load", to see how radically-differently we can load a Garand with cast bullets, with correct function and match-grade accuracy.

The Garand functions superbly with cast loads, and without "leading" in bore or gas system... IF you do it right. There's lots of info here if you look for it.

jonk...d'you think perhaps the concept of using his "1903 load" might give us a clue about Garand vs. Carbine (smile)?

[TAWILDCATT]

Bruce you missunder stood me. I already read his advice and it seem he advacated slow powder and heavy bullets.when I said full loads I added work the action.I intend to see how my very accurat load works in the garand and expec I will be manualy ejecting.I have two garands and a FN 49 plus 3 SKS.thats the autoloaders,I have been loading since 1937 and compitition with pistol since 1969,I stopped in 2000 when I moved here.I built the M1 from parts and have shot it in rifle matches.I was not a great shot but adequate.I am 85 now. :coffee:[smilie=1:

[jonk]

jonk...d'you think perhaps the concept of using his "1903 load" might give us a clue about Garand vs. Carbine (smile)?The original post was by Dave B. Tawildcatt posted about the 1903 load. So no, I don't think that would tell us what the original poster has. ;-)

[rvpilot76]

1903 is a Springfield in '06; a carbine is a 30 Cabine round-two completely different animals.

[Dave B]

My M1 Garand 30-06 arrived today. Looks pretty good, it needs a big clean up. Got a carbine too, but it's on the back burner for now. I have a Lee 170 FPGC so i will try them 1st.

[leadman]

Congrats on getting both your M-1s. The garand is really fun to shoot and even with Garand level jacketed bullets it is comfortable. As a note beware of using commercial 30-06 in this. Most is loaded for modern rifles although Hornady and someone else are making Garand specific loads.

Don't let that carbine rest too long. They are very good cast boolit shooters.

[Bob S]

311284 cast of straight wheelweights. (No efforts were made to make a "hardened" alloy, but wheelweights in 1965 were a lot harder than they are now.); old Hornady gas check; used the "new" alox-beeswax formula lube; bullets seated to crimping groove or "dirt scraper". 42 grains of WW II surplus 4831 with Rem 9-1/2 primer in Frankford Arsenal or Lake City cases. A quarter sheet of TP rolled up in a ball over the powder.

Would shoot a clip into about 2-1/2" at 100 yards (prone in the sling). Reliable functioning, a few loose flakes of lead on the piston, easily brushed off with an old bore brush. This is OK for a "service grade" rifle, but I would not recommend it for an accurized (bedded) rifle.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[hydraulic]

Bob S: I thought I had posted this question last night, but it must not have gotten posted. I use your recipe for H4831 with the Lee 200 gr. bullet with success. What do you recommend for 782?

[hydraulic]

OOPS! I found it over on the sight post. What about 782?

[hydraulic]

I meant 872.

[hydraulic]

Neber mind-I found it, finally, on castpics. 73 grs. Looks like a caseful.

[Bob S]

Hydr:

I have no inkling what 872 or 782 is. I no longer shoot cast bullets in my M1's. That was a thing from my poverty-stricken undergraduate days, and when I was still working on a Sharpshooter card. I can afford Sierra Match Kings now.

I save the cast bullets for the bolt actions and single shots. :-) I still shoot that load (with new production H4831) in a couple of my Springfields.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[WineMan]

Having recently acquired an M1 Garand, I have read with interest the proper feeding of reloads for this rifle. I stumbled upon this thread and to me it gives an explanation that makes sense and sorts out reasons behind the restrictions on powder burn rate and bullet weight:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=6052

Since the volume of space from the cartridge base to the OP-Rod face is fixed, a greater volume of gas from a larger charge of powder increases the pressure on the OP-rod. To achieve a certain level of velocity with a heavier bullet takes more "slow" powder than "fast" powder: it takes 10 grains more IMR4350 than IMR4895 to drive a 180 grain jacketed bullet ~2500 fps.

It seems that any charge of powder around 50 grains will work as long as the specific pressure is not exceeded (the author mentions that 50gr/4227 would not have a high port pressure but the rifle would be in pieces from the high specific pressure).

The BobS load works as the powder charge is appropriate and the velocity is lower. To raise the velocity of a heavier bullet with a slower powder requires more powder and then we run into OP-Rod damage from the high port pressure.

Plenty of ways to skin a cat as they say. I will keep to jacketed for the M1 for now and stick with Ac2520 as the propellant.

Winman

[hydraulic]

Bob S: Thanks. I had such good luck with your H4831 load I figured you were the one to ask about anything M1. 782 is a surplus powder that many of the guys here have used, but it's all gone now. My stash of WWII 4831 is nearing its end, as is the its owner.

[Deano]

My buddy has on in '06 and another in .308.

Both shoot cast very well. I believe that he uses the RCBS small base dies on the one in '06.

Shiloh

Nope, I use standard FL dies in both. The SB dies are for those tight chambered bolt guns.

In the '06 chambered rifle I use 30.0 4895, Win LR primer, Lyman 311299 and any case I can get my hands on. For the .308 rifle everything is the same except I reduce the charge to 28.0 grains. Both loads run a little over 1700fps, functioning is perfect and accuracy is better than surplus ball.