CLEANING LEAD - Need some advise - thx

[borderghost]

New to this casting game , have lots of lead to melt - is there any way to get my lead to pure lead ( as close as possible ) then add wheel weights , tin ,( linotype have 70 pds of it ) . to get a uniform hardness , going to melt in bout 20lb melts then put it in small 2lb ingots . Can i keep ladileing the top off, to get to the pure lead , can i tell the colour of the lead , i have been told 1lb of lino to 20lbs of lead is good , the bullets are going to be shot with sabots . when do i flux ( 1 ) make my small ingots first , then make my 20lb batch and add the lino or wheel weights then. ( 2 ) once i have ladled the first time to clean the lead and try to make it as pure as possible , then add my lino/ weights
Any thought / advise would be great

[Willbird]

The metals generally will not stratify like cream rising to the top of whole milk that is not homogenized.

I melt in 200lb batches in a large stainless crock pot. many bullets used in sabots can be pure lead.

The only simple ways we have to try to determine the alloy is the weight and hardness of a sample of the metal. A bullet cast in pure lead will be heavier than one cast of lead/tin or lead/antimony, or lead/tin/antimony.

So as a reference sample you can cast some bullets in pure lead, in WW if you have it, and in Lino if you have it (all cast in the same mold) then weigh each one and compare it to a test bullet cast in the mystery metal you have.

Bill

[borderghost]

Thx for the quick reply and infor , Most of the fun to this will be trying new samples of each , and shooting them to see which one is most accurate , I am having a custom brass 3 cavity mold made to my specs . and a jig for making hollow points after i have cast them , The barnes that i shoot are so accurate , there is no experimeting with them , so hoping casting my own will be fun, thx again .
Rick

[Willbird]

Well casting them should save you quite a bit of money, shooting a ML with sabots and premium bullets is very spendy.

Bill

[Marlin Hunter]

Lead(Pb) is 207amu, Tin(Sn) is 118amu, and Antimony(Sb) is 122amu. Pb is almost twice as dense as Sn or Sb. I don't think they form a compound when mixed, so it might be possible for the metals to separate if left at melting temps for a long time.

The cost (electricity) of leaving your cooker on for a long time may be more than if you just bought pure lead of eBay or other source.

[yodar]

Lead(Pb) is 207amu, Tin(Sn) is 118amu, and Antimony(Sb) is 122amu. Pb is almost twice as dense as Sn or Sb. I don't think they form a compound when mixed, so it might be possible for the metals to separate if left at melting temps for a long time.

The cost (electricity) of leaving your cooker on for a long time may be more than if you just bought pure lead of eBay or other source.

NONSENSE. A solution is a solution ! They don't stratify, they don't separate out. Did you have my high school physics class on the properties of MATTER ?

They key to success in this gentleman's alloy making efforts is producing CLEAN alloy from whatever source...wheelweights or roofing flash.

I flux with 20-muleteam borax, (sodium tetraborate octahydrate) OR boric acid. Both fuze to GLASS. NOT stirring, allowing it to crystallize to TRAP the dirt in the glassy crust enabling it to be removed and discarded. Re-flux till the surface of the alloy looks like mercury.

Flux finally with waste bullet lube, paraffing, candles, crayons, any waxy material.

pour into a cornbread-stick mold, and if any stripe appears on the top of the cooled metal, melt it back and re-peat he fluxing process.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1229/6309647/12253703/349433806.jpg

yodar

[docone31]

Wow, you get your lead hot enough to liquify Borax? When I do it, it just clumps up. I switched to Kitty Litter rather than Borax. It makes less of a mess.
Sometimes, I add some NoCorrode to the Kitty Litter before I start the melt. For a short time, that makes a difference.
I also agree with the solution/alloy remaining stable under heat.
However, instead of Sabots, have you considered Paper Patching?
http://members.shaw.ca/bobschewe/
Seems like you could be less critical of the alloy that way.

[44 WCF]

An old time caster in Lead South Dakota taught me how to smelt and flux wheel weights. I use big dutch oven from the secon hand store. I get all smelted and remove clips and garbage that I can get with slotted spoon stirring helps to bring to top.

Then turn off the heat, be srue to turn off the heat or flame whatever you're using to smelt with, very important, more on that later.

Spoon about 1/2 cup of Crisco onto the melt, stirring and mixing. The oil will begn to darken from the heat and crud. Stir and scrape sices, I use spatula from the second hand store. Sprinkle in about a cup of Gerbil litter, (groudn corn cob). It will soak up the oil and crud. Skim the litter and crud off. Turn heat back bring back up to temp and flux with wax or whatever you normall use. Top of melt should be like a mirror. Carefully discard all the litter and crud properly, it can contain lead oxide.

The first time I did this, I didn't turn off the fire when I added the Criso, I had flames 6 feet high, and a roar like an F15 jet fighter. Had to use a long handle shovel to put lid on dutch oven to get it shut down. Was in the winter, late in the afternoon. My whole back lot and the neighbors yards glowed from the brilliant flame. My wife, short circuited right there, neighbors wife's neck veins were popped out of shape. Nearly ended my casting career.

44 WCF

[Ancesthntr]

Some of the most experienced on this forum recommend CFF - see http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=27972&highlight=cff which is a mixture of wood from California offered by one of ours at a ridiculously low price for a lot. Great flux, good smell, little or no smoke, keeps everything good and clean.

I haven't used it yet, I'm still assembling equipment and lead, but I'll trust what all the folks on that thread say.

[Ancesthntr]

Yodar,

I like those cornbread ingots. I saw the exact same cast iron plate at a local grocery store for about $8, and I think I'll get it. I have a steel muffin pan already, and I'll use the different shapes for different alloys. 1 for WWs, 1 for Lino, maybe a third (like the Lee ingot mold) for pure lead or something near it.

[Marlin Hunter]

Originally Posted by Marlin Hunter View Post
Lead(Pb) is 207amu, Tin(Sn) is 118amu, and Antimony(Sb) is 122amu. Pb is almost twice as dense as Sn or Sb. I don't think they form a compound when mixed, so it might be possible for the metals to separate if left at melting temps for a long time.




NONSENSE. A solution is a solution ! They don't stratify, they don't separate out. Did you have my high school physics class on the properties of MATTER ?





This website says something different.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

5th Paragraph says: " Some of the other metals that may be present as minor impurities are even easier to oxidize, and "follow" the tin up into the "skin" (lead is pretty dense stuff and most all of these oxides are of lower density, so they float)."

I'm not questioning your physics. but this guy may need to go to summer school also. :mrgreen:

[leftiye]

They's a difference between floating off, and oxidizing. Alloys of lead as we use don't generally stratify (float off) but impurities like zinc can result in a layer of "mush on top of the melt, and most oxides do float off. Stir with a stick.

You generally have to work from a known metal towards the metal that you thimk you want to cast. When you have an unknown (and most metals we use aren't exact) You must test it for hardness, to see if it casts or not, and if expansion is important also test for that. More often than not, vitually any alloy of proper hardness will do for generic plinking, target shooting, and game popping.

[shotman]

They can be seperated BUT as a rule most dont have the means to do it. Alloy co do it but you dont have the millon dollars in equipment. If you set up a long slope and was able to keep temp at different points at a constant. Then they would seperate. All melt at different temps . But dont worry the paper dont know pure lead from zinc

[fredj338]

New to this casting game , have lots of lead to melt - is there any way to get my lead to pure lead ( as close as possible ) then add wheel weights , tin ,( linotype have 70 pds of it ) . to get a uniform hardness , going to melt in bout 20lb melts then put it in small 2lb ingots . Can i keep ladileing the top off, to get to the pure lead , can i tell the colour of the lead , i have been told 1lb of lino to 20lbs of lead is good , the bullets are going to be shot with sabots . when do i flux ( 1 ) make my small ingots first , then make my 20lb batch and add the lino or wheel weights then. ( 2 ) once i have ladled the first time to clean the lead and try to make it as pure as possible , then add my lino/ weights
Any thought / advise would be great

It sounds like you want to melt down an unknown alloy & try to get pure lead. It's not gonna happen that way. Like Willbird said, you can only compare weight & BHN. Get a BHN tester from Saeco, Lee or LBT & then you'll be able to weigh & check hardness. This will only give you an idea what alloy you are near.
I use mostly mixed WW. The tape ones are pure lead, the clips an alloy. I either melt them together to form a 50/50 mix or melt the tape weights separate for special bullets like HP. I will add alloy to the pot & then harden w/ tin &/or lino if needed.