The Big Fifty in 2009

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Yesterday was the first time on the range with the Industria Armi Bresciane (Spagetti Sharps) 50/70 “Big Fifty” this year.

The Big Fifty went on the line, shooting only at the 834 yard distance. I’d only loaded 25 rounds for this work, knowing that any more than that in a single day is non-productive due to the difficulty in handing the recoil. The rifle hit a foot low the first round and then a few misses tossed a little right and left as I "felt" for the wind, then things became easy for the remaining shots. Meaning, it did very well and I did semi-well, fighting for consistency in trigger pull and follow-through with every single round I fired. I wound up with a credible group on the steel of about 16”, where about 10 – 12 of my shots landed after initial sighters to get on the steel, some in the white so that I could not see them well. Best percentage was 9 hits for ten shots with the last 10 rounds in the box. I was glad when they were all gone and I could do something less punishing!

The load for this shooting is an (unspecified amount of 4198) 0.009 over-power card, grits filler and under-bullet 0.050 card wad. Bullet is the Jones 685 grain going on out there at 1325 ft/sec.

~ Does anyone else shoot the 50?

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[MtGun44]

I have an original Army 1871 Rem RB in .50-70, but not a lot of shooting
experience and certainly nothing at those kinds of ranges.


Bill

[Ron B.]

I too shoot the 50-70; owning a Trapdoor, and original Rolling Block. I also have two customized Rolling Blocks done by LoneStar. One of those is a 50-70; the other, a 38-55.

I never reload anywhere near maximums; keeping everything I shoot below 1200fps. Consequently, my ranges are 100 yards max. The distance is also limited to my range size.

Sounds like you know what you are doing; I can't even see 834 yards! :)
Out of curiousity, what types of sights are you using?

GRB

[BPCR Bill]

Shoot Black Powder. The recoil will be a bit less nasty than smokeless, contributing to better accuracy ( at least for that round). The "Big 50" of history was the 50-90 Sharps. The 50-70 was the Government round, but both originally loaded with black. What is the weight of your rifle? The nicest 50 I have ever seen (or shot) was a custom Shiloh 50-90 with a 16# barrel. The owner had the same Jones mould you have and that rifle was SWEET to shoot at 800. By the way, I did own a 50-90 Buisness rifle at one time. Combine a light rifle, poor boolit selection (for the time) and you have a recipe for lousy accuracy. I sold the rifle.

Regards,
Bill

[dubber123]

I wouldn't think you could get a 685 gr. boolit going 1,325 fps. with black powder. One of the biggest advantages to smokeless.

[EDK]

Try and get up to the Quigley shoot at Forsyth MT the week before and Fathers' Day week end. There's a few 50 caliber shooters up there. I use a 50/90 SHILOH Long Range Express with a 620 grain BROOKS boolit; haven't gotten things going with the KALYNUIK paper patch mould.

Go to shilohrifle.com/forums and do some searches for Kurt and bobw. Kurt is here and other places as Lead Pot. Bob shoots a 10 pound 50/140 with paper patch bullets, "guaranteed to scare off wimps and rattlesnakes from the firing line, as well as removing dust from his area!"

I'm a terrible shot, but have a good time at Quigley. Last year I got 4 out of 8 on the buffalo at 800 yards and was happy. That d--- buffalo ain't near as big as you think! I had MVA scope bases installed on my rifle when they built it at SHILOH in 2004; I'll have a telescope on it in a year or two.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

PS Jim White, mentioned in GETTING A STAND, used three 16 pound 50/90 Sharps rifles.

[FAsmus]

EDK;

I did go shoot at the Montana 1000 yard Championship last year with the "Big Fifty"

I tied for First, lost the tie-breaker and took home the 2nd-place plack.

Conditions were terrible for a winning score of 26 out of 40 target hits. I got good conditions the last relay - hitting 9 for 10 which 'healed" me up.

Good evening,
Forrest

[NickSS]

I have a couple of 50-70s that I shoot. One is an original 1866 Springfield and the other is a C Sharps 1874 hunters carbine. I killed a buffalo in 2008 with the Springfield at 124 paces. The 450 gr slug plowed right through the chest and exited. My C Sharps is a good shooter but GI loads (450 gr bullet over 70 gr FFG) kicks enough that after a box of them I have a good case of flinchitis unless I use a past recoil shield. It does shoot very well out to 200 yards which is as far as I have shot it. I bought it mostly for hunting and I have used it once for that purpose and put down a 250 pound wild boar with one shot. The 50-70 is a good killer. I think it works better than the 45-70 in that department when loaded with black powder.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

The time is right for preparations for the summer shooting to come.

I have just completed the casting of 500+ bullets for the "Big Fifty" as of last week. I like very much to get this done while it is still cool outdoors as casting in the no-AC shed is kind of crazy if you find yourself short of bullets when it is 90 degrees outside.

The 500 bullets will get me through the practice and acimalization to the rifle for another go-around at the 1000 yard Championship this coming July in Forsyth.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Forrest Good luck with your Big Fifty, I am sure that I most likely will be in Raton around then. One of these days I would like to make it up for that match with my old 45-110 Slug Gun Dora.

Kenny Wasserburger

[StrawHat]

...The "Big 50" of history was the 50-90 Sharps. The 50-70 was the Government round, ...Bill

As I read the books, the 50-90 was ONE of the big 50s. From what I could tell, all the 50 caliber cartridges were refered to as the Big Fifty once the military went to the smaller 45-70.

I have a rolling block and a trapdoor, both in 50-70. I load the Lyman 515141 or the Lee 515-450 over all the black powder I can drop into the case. I also use a grease cookie and have a good accounting out to 200 yards. Next experiment will be with paper patched boolits.

I would love to try longer ranges but 200 is as far as it gets around here.

[hydraulic]

The buffalo at Quigley. 784 yds. Wish I knew how to put an arrow in that picture, but it's on the far left just below the horizon. I hit it once with my trapdoor last year.

[swamp]

Have a rooling block I got from Navy Arms maybe 30 yrs ago in 50-140 Sharps. Case is 3.25 inches and shoot a Hoch 650gr boolit. Powder is AA8700.

Always gets attentjion whe people see the loaded round.

Usee to have an origanal Sharps carbine in 50-70. Enjoyed it alot till was stole.
Replaced it with a large Martini action barreled in 50-70. Just to be a little different.

All the fiftys are fun.

swamp

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I bet it is fun getting the loaded 3.25 rounds to clear the Hammer on your roller?

KW
The Lunger

[bart55]

I have an origional New York contract 50 70 it is in the carbine length ,I mostly use the lee 450 over as much black as will fit and a grease cookie ,shoots great to 200yards (as far as I have to shoot) and I have taken one whitetail with it . went right through and the deer went right down (only a 40 yard shot ) . it is a hoot to take to the range . I wish I had a longer range to shoot at .

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I went back to check on the first post of this thread and found than I have made a typo of importance: Where I wrote "50/70" I meant to write 50/90 Sharps Straight. Darn!

Certainly this is a big difference in cartridge designation and performance. Sorry I didn't edit my work better.

The Black Powder capacity of the case is 108 grains Swiss 1 1/2 (compressed 1/8 inch) as loaded with the Jones 685 grain bullet .. smokeless loads had to be approached with care.

Last year shortly before the 1000 yard match the rifle's firing pin broke. Things got intense in order to repair the damage before it was too late. I got two new pins but they didn't fit well and the breech block was hammered badly from the overly large firing pin hole anyway. ~ I had to weld up the breech block, re-drill the slanted hole just right and then file it to an exact fit to the smaller diameter
pin.

The repair worked just fine.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Kenny;

The rifle addressed in this thread is the one I wrote up in the ASSRA Journal a few years back as: "The Purpose-Built Rifle". That first year on the line it did well - but it isn't really all that much fun to shoot.

Thanks but the way. Good fortune in Raton.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Swamp;

How does that 8700 work out for you?

Good evening,
Forrest

[swamp]

FAsmus,
I haven't had any problems with it. It is a bit stout. When I first thought of using it I called AA tech and asked for a load suggestion. Was told 100 gr. would work. I am using 85gr. with the hoch 650gr boolit.

The AA manual list 100gr start with 120gr max with 550gr boolit.

I like 8700 for the high volume fill with a low pressure. With the above the manual list 25,100 psi.

With my 34 inch long 1 1/8 wide barrel the recoil is not bad

pic of 50-70 and 50-140.

[FAsmus]

Swamp;

Thanks for that.

How well does the load burn? That is, are you leaving much un-burned powder in the bore after each shot?

How accurate is it? Have you chronographed the load to check for Standard Deviation? And how much velocity is there to be had?

Good morning,
Forrest

[swamp]

FAsmus,

I don't have a chronograph, so no vel or sd. Can't remmember the last time I shot at paper, but I manage to it a 2X3 foot rock at 800 yds pretty regular.

I can't recall haveing seen any unburned powder last time I shot. It has been a while since I took it out.

Hope this helps.

[FAsmus]

Swamp;

Sure, it all helps; the devil is in the details.

Hang a 4x4 hunk of 1/4 inch steel out there at 800 and shoot for group!

good morning,
Forrest