Krag rifle beding questions?

[Char-Gar]

I am well into building up a Krag sporter. It is a 1901 action and a new Remington 2 groove 03A3 barrel. The metal is going into the wood pretty easy..everything straight and level. I am now down to the last final fittings using hand screws.

My standard way of doing things is to marry the metal and wood as tight and even as I can. I shoot the rifle and see what is what. I then go back and relieve the key contact points and glass those for strength and strength and stability. I stick to Mausers and 03 Springfields, so this Krag is a different kind of critter with no recoil lug to keep the metal from shifting back in the wood.

I have found the glass improves the accuracy a smidge (1/4 MOA or less), but nothing fantastic. I do think the glass is important for strength and longevity.

After some looking and head scratching, here is the plan. Hollar if you know a better way of doing it. I will glass the rear tang from the trigger slot on back. A little glass on the bottom of the rear receiver in the same area for uniform contact. As there is no recoil lug, I will put some glass on the verticle stock surface that contacts the rear of the magazine for a firm and uniform contact. That should keep the metal from moving back. I will glass the front receiver ring and the first two inches of the barrel. With the two screws in the back of the action, the barrel can be shoved around and can use the stability of a couple inches of glass. The remainder of the barrel and bottom of the magazine box will float.

I will use a standard issue Krag front band with sling swivel. I will have to shoot it a little to see if I want the band to contact the barrel.

I bought the stock blank on Ebay for $25.00. It is an old one with a large square forend to catch in the vise and enough wood to make any style of stock. It has a left hand cheekpiece (I am left handed) and is straight grain musket cut American walnut. In color and grain, it looks for all in the world like something Winchester would have used in the 40s and 50's. Nothing fancy, just solid wood that is good and dry.

This is my first and last Krag and will listen to anybody with ideas on a better way to do it. Thanks in advance for any advise and input you might have. I am always in learning mode!

[scb]

The whole back of the magazine including the angled cut where the trigger is mounted is the recoil lug. On a sporter I built I drilled and tapped the bottom of the front receiver ring then installed an escutcheon in the stock and used a third screw. Kinda like a 700 ADL.

[leftiye]

Or maybe install a recoil lug between the barrel, and reciever ala' Remington.

[Bret4207]

Cahrgar, I think Brownells "Gunsmiths Kinks" has some stuff on bedding the Krag.

[Char-Gar]

Bret... I don't have those, but do you remember which volumn. There are several.

[leftiye]

Call Brownell's and talk to their tech dept.?

[Bret4207]

Bret... I don't have those, but do you remember which volumn. There are several.

I'll see if I can find any of mine, I think they went to the barn :groner: !!!! IIRC the index from all the volumes tells what the others have. Anyone have the last edition that can look for him?

[madsenshooter]

Charger, I was asking around on several different Krag forums, as I have a Krag target rifle I'm building. I'm impressed that you got any answers. I'll I got was "Never heard of glass bedding a Krag" from the Kragites. Only advice I can offer is too not make a wedge of the bedding material that will start splits in the stock. If anyone runs across the info from Brownells, I'd be interested too.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks guys, if anybody comes up with some info, let me know. I do want to put some glass for the rear of the magazine box to bear on as a recoil lug. The rear tang will get some as well as the front receiver ring and couple of inches of the barrel.

I am in the process of installing a Neider butt plate on the stock. boy it is a booger, as not only is it curved, but it is also concave on the underside (convex on the outside). I know I could just work the butt flat instead of convex to fit the underside of the plate, but heck, time is all I have these days and there is a certain satisfaction to doing it right.

This is probably some kind of stockmaking heresy, but I am using a small sanding drum on the Dremel to do the butt plate installation. If you go real slow, and just use the tool to take off the high placed indicated by the spotting compound it works just fine. I just remove the little smudges of Prussian Blue. I have about eight hours into the job now and one or two more will "get er done". One of the few real postive character traits I posses, is great patience, with people, guns and various other situations.

I toyed with the idea of installing a third screw into the front receiver ring. I think that would work just fine. But, I decided against it because..well..because it just isn't tradtional. I will stick with some glass and a barrel band to keep that barrel where it should be.

[StarMetal]

Just a question Charger. Why didn't you opt for a better barrel? You know from one of the well known barrel makers? Did you know that some of the barrel makers that use button rifling (and that is a good many of them) will cut you deeper rifling say for cast use?

I'm not real keen on the two groove barrels, but how accurate are they?

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Joe... The reason is I had the barrel for twenty years (paid $25.00 for it)and paid the Gunsmith $100 to cut it off at the rear to remove most of the 30-06 chamber, thread it, rechamber it to 30-40 and fit it to the rifle. That gives me $125.00 into a new barrel and front sight base. I would have to pay three times that much or more for a commercial barrel.

I have used a number of these 03A3 barrels over the years, and while they are not benchrest barrels, they are MOA or better barrels with good loads. Two groove barrels are just as accurate as 4 groove barrels. If you have a cast bullet with a long bore riding nose, these 2 groove barrels are just the huckleberry.

I could have spent $300 dollars more on a barrel and maybe squeezed another 1/4 MOA of accuracy out of the rifle. That doesn't make much sense to me for a light weight sporter designed to be toted around the countryside and be shot for pure fun.

I paid $125.00 for the action, $125 in the barrel, $25.00 for the stock blank, and $15.00 for the butt plate and grip cap. The sights I have had for years and don't consider them an expense. That give me a very inexpensive rifle that will look and shoot great. I will need to blue the metal and I have not made up my mind which way to go on that.

Did that answer your question?

[StarMetal]

Joe... The reason is I had the barrel for twenty years (paid $25.00 for it)and paid the Gunsmith $100 to cut it off at the rear to remove most of the 30-06 chamber, thread it, rechamber it to 30-40 and fit it to the rifle. That gives me $125.00 into a new barrel and front sight base. I would have to pay three times that much or more for a commercial barrel.

I have used a number of these 03A3 barrels over the years, and while they are not benchrest barrels, they are MOA or better barrels with good loads. Two groove barrels are just as accurate as 4 groove barrels. If you have a cast bullet with a long bore riding nose, these 2 groove barrels are just the huckleberry.

I could have spent $300 dollars more on a barrel and maybe squeezed another 1/4 MOA of accuracy out of the rifle. That doesn't make much sense to me for a light weight sporter designed to be toted around the countryside and be shot for pure fun.

I paid $125.00 for the action, $125 in the barrel, $25.00 for the stock blank, and $15.00 for the butt plate and grip cap. The sights I have had for years and don't consider them an expense. That give me a very inexpensive rifle that will look and shoot great. I will need to blue the metal and I have not made up my mind which way to go on that.

Did that answer your question?

Yes sir, in fact it did answer my question. Thanks

Joe

[Bret4207]

Chargar, my gunsmithing books are buried in the barn behind 3 other relatives stuff. Sorry. It'll be a while afore I get to them, years perhaps....

[Gunfixer]

Ill look tonight and post tomorrow (Books in shop, internet at work). Sorry I missed this thread, could have had the info already. Chargar, I think I have an old left hand thumbhole stock for an 03 I will look for it also. got it years ago for a build ( I'm a lefty too) and just gave up on RH bolts. Went to T/C contenders and Ruger #1's

[Char-Gar]

Gunfixer... thanks for looking.

[Bret4207]

Chargar- KCSO just posted some info here- http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=51583

[KCSO]

Chargar
If you want pictures of the bedding I will take some the next time I have it apart. As to the barrel most of the NRA Krags were made up with old springfield barrels. Althought most were 4 groove I cant fault a good 2 groove.

[Gunfixer]

I looked through Kinks 1 2 3 and 4 and did not fit any Krag specific bedding info, Also looked through some other old books, nada. If anyone has a page number for something I missed, I have the books with me today

[Bret4207]

Huh. I know I saw it somewhere...Clyde Baker maybe? Vickery? Dunlop? I'll look around.

[Char-Gar]

KCSO Yes, some pics of the bedding would be very helpful. Thanks.. Charles

[Char-Gar]

I finally got my head screwed on straight and hauled down The Modern Gunsmith by Howe (1934, 1937 and 1941 Funk & Wagnalls) Volumn 1 contains some detailed instructions on inlettting the 03 Springfield and Krag actions.

Pg.. 130 "The Magazine on the Krag is part of the action and the recoil shoulder is one solid piece wich forms the rear end of the magazine."

Pg...131 "As the Krag's recoil shoulder is at the rear of the magazine on the left side, it is very important that the wood in this location fits closely against the magazine."

Other than the magazine being part of the action and being the recoil , it is a straight forward inletting job. Howe uses a a barrel band, but just the two screws. He feels the 03 rear action screw needs a bushing, but the Krag does not. The primary reason is to establish the correct distance between the bottom of the tang and the top of the trigger guard.

I think I am going to stick with my original plan to glass the rear tang, the contact points at the rear of the magazine, the front receiver ring and the first two inches of the barrel.

I find it interesting that Sedgley used three action screws and let the screw and rear tang take the recoil. I wonder if he put bushings in the holes to spread out the recoil a bit on those screws? If you are not going to bed the rear of the magazine tight to take the recoil, Iwould think those bushings would be a very good idea.

[StarMetal]

I finally got my head screwed on straight and hauled down The Modern Gunsmith by Howe (1934, 1937 and 1941 Funk & Wagnalls) Volumn 1 contains some detailed instructions on inlettting the 03 Springfield and Krag actions.

Pg.. 130 "The Magazine on the Krag is part of the action and the recoil shoulder is one solid piece wich forms the rear end of the magazine."

Pg...131 "As the Krag's recoil shoulder is at the rear of the magazine on the left side, it is very important that the wood in this location fits closely against the magazine."

Other than the magazine being part of the action and being the recoil , it is a straight forward inletting job. Howe uses a a barrel band, but just the two screws. He feels the 03 rear action screw needs a bushing, but the Krag does not.

I think I am going to stick with my original plan to glass the rear tang, the contact points at the rear of the magazine, the front receiver ring and the first two inches of the barrel.

I find it interesting that Sedgley used three action screws and let the screw and rear tang take the recoil. I wonder if he put bushings in the holes to spread out the recoil a bit on those screws? If you are not going to bed the rear of the magazine tight to take the recoil, Iwould think those bushings would be a very good idea.

I read on the internet somewhere where a fellow was going to use steel bushings on his Krag. I believe he done the rear screw first, but when he went to do the front screw something about the action wouldn't let is set level so he kind of free floated that front bushing if you know what I mean. The hole for it was slightly oversized. It didn't sound like a good setup to me ...what he done.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

The two action screws on the Krag rifle are not parallel. They have to be drilled at different angles. The front screw is more or less 90 degrees to the action, but the rear screw has a little forward cant. If both holes are drilled at the correct angle, there should be no problem in installing bushing that fit the stock and the screws with no need to float. I surmise the fellow in question thought these two screws were parallel.

The same is true of the 03 rifle. You can't use two headless guide screws when inletting the action. I use a guide screw in the rear.

One the other hand the Mauser screws are parallel and you can use guide secrews on the front and rear when inletting the action into the wood. That is nice.

[StarMetal]

The two action screws on the Krag rifle are not parallel. They have to be drilled at different angles. The front screw is more or less 90 degrees to the action, but the rear screw has a little forward cant. If both holes are drilled at the correct angle, there should be no problem in installing bushing that fit the stock and the screws with no need to float. I surmise the fellow in question thought these two screws were parallel.

The same is true of the 03 rifle. You can't use two headless guide screws when inletting the action. I use a guide screw in the rear.

One the other hand the Mauser screws are parallel and you can use guide secrews on the front and rear when inletting the action into the wood. That is nice.

Sounds like you figured out his problem. You are keener about these Krags then he.

Joe

[Bret4207]

I finally got my head screwed on straight and hauled down The Modern Gunsmith by Howe (1934, 1937 and 1941 Funk & Wagnalls) Volumn 1 contains some detailed instructions on inlettting the 03 Springfield and Krag actions.

Pg.. 130 "The Magazine on the Krag is part of the action and the recoil shoulder is one solid piece wich forms the rear end of the magazine."

Pg...131 "As the Krag's recoil shoulder is at the rear of the magazine on the left side, it is very important that the wood in this location fits closely against the magazine."

Other than the magazine being part of the action and being the recoil , it is a straight forward inletting job. Howe uses a a barrel band, but just the two screws. He feels the 03 rear action screw needs a bushing, but the Krag does not. The primary reason is to establish the correct distance between the bottom of the tang and the top of the trigger guard.

I think I am going to stick with my original plan to glass the rear tang, the contact points at the rear of the magazine, the front receiver ring and the first two inches of the barrel.

I find it interesting that Sedgley used three action screws and let the screw and rear tang take the recoil. I wonder if he put bushings in the holes to spread out the recoil a bit on those screws? If you are not going to bed the rear of the magazine tight to take the recoil, Iwould think those bushings would be a very good idea.

Thank goodness! I'm not going insane....well, okay I probably am, but not about this anyway.