9# Onionskin

[Marlin Junky]

How much does two wraps of 9# Onionskin add to a bullet's diameter after drying? I'm trying to determine what PT dies I need for the various papers I'm collecting. My .002" thick tracing paper (no cotton) works great with my .356" PT and .3605" Lyman 450 dies; however, the Onionskin is supposed to be about .0005" thicker than the tracing paper and I have no idea how much it'll shrink. I think I remember Paul Matthews saying Onionskin is supposed to add about .008" to the bullet's diameter and if that's the case, my .356" bullets may end up .364" which may be too fat to size in my .3605" 450 die. I'd hate to find out I should have patched a thinner bullet after wrecking a bunch of patched bullets, patched with 6 cent a sheet Onionskin.

Thanks,
MJ

[docone31]

Marlin, it won't matter.
I started with traceing paper. I then switched to notebook paper, and printer paper. I use the same final die to size. Both target the same.
I size to the same diameter, then final size to the final diameter. I have no real clue why it works, but it does.
If it is undersize, it don't matter. It just won't work well anyway.

[Lead pot]

#9 Onion skin paper varies in thickness, I have 9# that varies from .0016 to .0021.
I have 7.5# that is .002.
All of my "onion skin" paper is 100% cotton and it is all different.

[Marlin Junky]

My Onionskin was just delivered and I've measured it at approx. .0027" which makes it closer to my 16# (100% cotton) than my .0021" tracing paper but I'll go ahead and use my .356" PT and .3605" Lyman 450 dies to create my PP bullets. I just would be more comfortable if I knew ahead of time what my patched diameter was going to be while using the .0027"/25% cotton. It did take a little bit of force to size a .3625-.3630" patched bullet (patched with the tracing paper) through my .3605" 450 die.

MJ

[docone31]

What are you useing for wax?
When I wax mine, it is like they are not there in the die.

[Marlin Junky]

docone31,

I've been using JPW but I'm open for suggestions. BTW, my alloy is BHN 10 to 11. You are using PT dies exclusively though, aren't you? I've been using a .356" PT die to reduce the .3595" casting before patching and then a .3605" 450 die to size the .3625 to .3630" patched bullet which is lubed with JPW.

MJ

[pdawg_shooter]

You can expect an increase in diameter of around .006 with 9# paper.

[Marlin Junky]

You can expect an increase in diameter of around .006 with 9# paper.

Thanks pdawg,

I wrapped a .270 bullet, let it dry and that's pretty much what I got!

I'm glad I didn't order a custom PT die based on the paper's dry thickness.

MJ

[pdawg_shooter]

Rule of thumb is weight of paper divided by 3 times the number of wraps used. Comes out real close every time.

[Marlin Junky]

Rule of thumb is weight of paper divided by 3 times the number of wraps used. Comes out real close every time.

pdawg,

That rule seems to apply to the 9# and 16# papers containing cotton but it doesn't work for the 25# tracing paper I've been using which is .0020" (or maybe .0021") thick (dry) and adds about .007" to the bullet's diameter. Anyway, if anyone wants to try 25# tracing paper, it only shrinks about 15% whereas the cotton content papers shrink somewhat more.

MJ

[pdawg_shooter]

25# tracing paper? Man that would take one strong back light to trace through that!

[Marlin Junky]

25# tracing paper? Man that would take one strong back light to trace through that!

That's what the manufacturer rated it and it's very easy to see through.

MJ

[pdawg_shooter]

OK, but my 16# printer paper mikes .0031.

[Lead pot]

The weight dont mean squad as far as thickness goes.
I have 7.5# paper that is .002 thick, 8# that is .0016, 9# at .0022 and I have 25# tracing paper that is .0016 thick.
The poundage is determent by weight of a ream.
Paper will have different compositions like clay or different sizing that will change the weights.

[pdawg_shooter]

Maybe, but I have 9,12,16,20, and 25# and the old rule of thumb works with all of them. In fact I never mike my paper unless some one ask me to.

[Cowboy5780]

Ive got some of Pdawgs boolits loaded ready to try next trip to the range, can say they look great tho

[Marlin Junky]

I haven't done my final sizing yet with the 9# Onionskin but I gotta say, this stuff is hard to roll on consistently and snugly enough so it doesn't slip on the bullets when dry. The .002" thick tracing paper (no cotton) seems to be easier to work with wet and is less expensive. If I can get 30 satisfactory Onionskin patched bullets together by Thursday, I'll shoot them out of my Whelen with 62 grains of DP-85. The best tracing paper bullets grouped inside 2" at 100 yards driven to 2357 fps by 61 grains of DP-85 (similar to Ramshot Hunter; however, it's a bit faster).

BTW, my Onionskin has a rough finish (compared to the tracing paper) even though the package says smooth finish and it adds about .007" to the bullet diameter when completely dry.

MJ

[Black Wolf]

pdawg,

That rule seems to apply to the 9# and 16# papers containing cotton but it doesn't work for the 25# tracing paper I've been using which is .0020" (or maybe .0021") thick (dry) and adds about .007" to the bullet's diameter. Anyway, if anyone wants to try 25# tracing paper, it only shrinks about 15% whereas the cotton content papers shrink somewhat more.

MJ

Phew, I thought I'd gone nuts or something...because I bought some tracing paper, which felt pretty dog-gone thin, but the package said 25#. Got home and measured it at .002" - and thought to myself - hmm, the formula is not right for this paper.

Anyhow, I wrapped some .309 bullets with it and it measured .315 after drying (twice wrapped). Now I'm hoping I can lube this and push them thru my .314 sizing die for my Enfield without tearing the patch. If it does tear, I may just shoot them as they are since my groove diameter on my Enfield is .312 ~ .313. But the good news is that I found a working combination of sizing and paper to get to the diameter I was looking for.

I also picked up some .001" craft tissue paper (the stuff women stuff in gift bags - well at least my wife does) and wrapped it twice around my .009 bullet and got .312 after drying. I probably won't shoot those in my Enfield because I find it works best with .314 (having done some beagling experimentation).

I really like the idea of patching this particular bullet because I'd really like to get away from gas checks on it.

Next thing is to actually load and fire these and see what happens. :Fire:

[Zeek]

How much does two wraps of 9# Onionskin add to a bullet's diameter after drying? . . . My . . . tracing paper (no cotton) works great with my .356" PT and .3605" Lyman 450 dies; however, the Onionskin is supposed to be about .0005" thicker . . . and I have no idea how much it'll shrink. I think . . . Onionskin is supposed to add about .008" to the bullet's diameter [for a 2X wrap] and, if that's the case, my .356" bullets may end up .364" which may be too fat to size in my .3605" 450 die. . . .
Thanks, MJ

The additional size-down is not a problem because you have to size down around half the added thickness just to get rid of the air in the paper! Once the paper cellulose fibers are locked together, it is far easier for the lead-alloy booit core to crush-down a bit (thereby lengthing the boolit corresondingly) than for the fibers to "give" any more. Lead alloy is maleable, whereas a compacted-until-near-solid layer of cellulose will NOT EEEEEVEN extrude. So, the "weak link," at that point, is the boolit core, which compresses a bit.

When your compressed-until-hard boolit comes out, it will have a VERY hard-and-tough paper jacket that is ready to take torque load beginning right at the instant that the round is fired. THAT, my friend, is a "boolit jacket"! Until the paper gets compressed until it is "harder than lead," it is NOT a boolit jacket, given that it cannot transmit torque to the boolit core.

This may seem an untoward idea, but it is quite a bit like an ice cream cone ~~~> Try it! You'll lick it! Shoot for an as-wrapped-and-dried added-diameter that is about half-way above your desired final boolit diameter, then size down to final diameter (i.e., eliminate ALL of the gas from the jacket). Your remaining jacket will be tough, capable, hard, and capable of serious performance.
Zeek