Corrosive ammo

[WyrTwister]

Corrosive ammo does not damage firearms .

I have shot a lot of corrosive surplus ammo ( to be safe , I consider all foreign surplus ammo corrosive ) .

Here is the deal . Clean the gun PROPERLY before the sun goes down . That way the corrosive salts do not have time to start corroding the metal .

PROPERLY ? There are lots of methods that work .

Hot soapy watter . Windex with Ammonia . WWII GI bore cleaner is said to work .

I use Shooters Choice Copper Remover Bore Cleaner ( any of the copper removers that smell of ammonia will work ) . I clean untill I no longer get blue green stain on the patches , or until I get tired .

I then use a few patches wet with Hoppies # 9 , to kill the ammonia . This leaves the bore wet with Hoppies . I close the bolt and stick a wet Hoppies patch part way in the muzzle .

I repeat this process each nite until I no longer get blue green patches , with the Shooters Choice .

One cycle of this is probably enough to kill the salt . But I also want to remove the copper .

You are correct , if you shoot cast bullets , current production American non-corrosive primers and smokeless powder , you avoid most of this .

And it takes a long time to wear out a barrel with lead bullets . And lead bullets loads usually use less powder , less fire to burn out the chamber throat .

Lastly , if you have to clean from the muzzle , be kind , use a guide on the cleaning rod .

God bless
Wyr

[oscarflytyer]

Nice to know ammonia will work as well as soapy water. Hate to put soap and water in a bore. thanx

[stubshaft]

I've use hot soapy water to kill corrosive salts for years. The trick is to use HOT water it heats up the barrel and makes it easier to dry out.

[Hip's Ax]

Its the water that is necessary to neutralize the corrosive salts, the ammonia is good to get the layers of copper out so that the water can get at the salts under the copper. Don't forget to wipe down the bolt face. If your shooting a semi don't forget the gas system.

I keep a squirt bottle of ammonia and water in my shooting kit. After shooting corrosive I run a few wet patches of water and ammonia down the bore, use one wet patch to wipe down the bolt face (I'm shooting bolt guns obviously) and then oil the snot out of everything and then clean as usual when I get home. Never had a problem with rust.

Here is where I got my info 10 years ago, I still do it this way. Hope this helps.

http://www.empirearms.com/clean.htm

[Gerry N.]

I learned to clean a rifle from my insane uncle who was a USMC DI before the gummit used non corrosive priming. I'm not going to go into the whole protocol, but it involves water, Hoppe's #9, oil and foul language, lots of foul language. I'm pretty sure it's necessary. Cleaning my Yugo M48 or #4MkI* after a session with corrosive primed ammo takes no longer than cleaning any other rifle.

Gerry N.

[Nose Dive]

yep, water does the job. No water, no good. It works and puts the salts in solution and washes them out. Soap is good to,,it helps keep all the bad stuff in solution. Ammonia is for the copper. No ammonia,, not copper cleaning other than the elbow grease. The HOT water is a neat idea. Am gonna try that way next Saturday. I doo the soapy water and brushes... dry it out with a few patches..then a bit of ED's RED and more brushing. Then the Hoppes or COPOUT stuff from the fellas (Barnes is the name I think) who make the lead free bullets. Or, could mix up a bit of soapy ammonia solution and skip a step or two. Then,,finish with oily patches to combat the rust. Here again, my final patches are swabs of ED's Red. Lot of heavy hydrocarbons and my solution features Marvel Myster Oil...which,,in reality...has no oil in it. Anyway, keeps the sheen on and the rust out. Did I mention i blow the pieces off with air between steps... Also, soak the bolts and other exposed parts, (SLIDES and cylinders in pistols) in soapy water while doing the barrel brushing,,, then blow off, then soak over night in Ed's Red. Scurb'em, blow and towel dry..ready for re assembly.

"advanced skills are those employed while performing the basics while your leg is on fire"

[Sailman]

When taking basic training during the Korean War time, after we shot on the rifle range ( all the ammo was corrosive ), we woul take the M-1 barrel into the shower with us and wash the barrel and ourselves. We never had any problems with rust in the bore.

Sailman

[Ricochet]

Marvel Mystery Oil is a very light petroleum oil. According to the MSDS it has trace amounts of mineral spirits, napthenic hydrocarbons and chlorinated hydrocarbons in it.
http://images.shipstore.com/ss/images/mav/mavmmomsds.pdf

[dromia]

I use Aquoil made with 3-1 water and Youngs .303 oil.

[markinalpine]

I learned to clean a rifle from my insane uncle who was a USMC DI before the gummit used non corrosive priming. I'm not going to go into the whole protocol, but it involves water, Hoppe's #9, oil and foul language, lots of foul language. I'm pretty sure it's necessary. Cleaning my Yugo M48 or #4MkI* after a session with corrosive primed ammo takes no longer than cleaning any other rifle.

Gerry N.

Those are actually Magic Words. :bigsmyl2:
After using H2O based liquids, soapy water, Windex, etc., use WD40.

Mark :coffeecom

[Bullet Caster]

I have been cleaning rifles and handguns for a long time now and esp. when I was on active duty in the US Marine Corps. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use WD40 on any firearm as it induces rust. I have tried WD40 on a suggestion and have found rust on my rifle after using it. The best surface protectant for any firearm is the Remington gun oil with teflon as this oil has been proven to penetrate the metal itself. I've never found any rust whatsoever after using the Remington oil. This has been proven in a thread on this forum. Thanks, BC

[dromia]

I agree the WD40 is useless for protection against rust and it is folly to use it so.

However in the context of this thread and the use of water based solutions to remove primers salts WD40 has a place as it is intended to displace water.

Therefore its use after water based solutions is sensible so long as it is then cleaned out along with any displaced water and the firearm then oiled appropriately for rust prevention.

[Janoosh]

I shopped at tag sales and bought an "antique" coffee pot, the kind with the guts inside. I boil water in it and pour the "hot" water down the bore after shooting corrosive ammo. I use Simple Green to scrub the bore with brushes. Follow up when dry with either Hoppe's or GI bore cleaner. Works every time. Also needed to take apart the bolt to clean the insides. I had a major problem with rust forming inside and slowing things up.

[Reload3006]

I do what I was taught in the military My piece Betty goes to the shower with me and we both get a good scrubbing. Hot water is not necessary just good ole warm soapy water will take all the corrosive salts out. re-oil and your good to go.

[Rokkit Syinss]

Field expedients from at least the Civil War on:
Piss down the barrel.
Creek water.
Stale coffee (I can verify this one works and with BP fouling too).
USGI bore cleaner with a part number that starts RIXS (looks like tobacco spit and smells much worse). Again I can verify this does work and works on BP fouling too.
Blue windshield washer stuff, works on corrosive primer salts and BP fouling.
If the water isn't hot enough to heat the parts and rapidly dry them use Birchwood Casey Sheath or Barricade as it work as well or better than WD-40 and does not adversely affect resulphurized stainless.

[JudgeBAC]

Ballistol is my favorite cleaner for black powder and corrosive ammo. It is water soluble so you mix it 50/50 with water, clean whatever needs cleaning then follow with 100% Ballistol for rust protection. Never had any rust using this product. The only downside is it does not smell very good, sort of like smelly socks.

[felix]

There are some polymers out there used in the cooling/tooling industry which should/will work just fine. It should have been used on a Yugo barrel here as it is religiously used after shooting the BP flinter. The 8mm ammo was reported to be non-corrosive, and we all know how that goes these days. So, I never told the boys to clean that gun afterwards. Barrel HAD to be exchanged. ... felix

[kywoodwrkr]

Ballistol is my favorite cleaner for black powder and corrosive ammo. It is water soluble so you mix it 50/50 with water, clean whatever needs cleaning then follow with 100% Ballistol for rust protection. Never had any rust using this product. The only downside is it does not smell very good, sort of like smelly socks.
This was good enough(actually developed for) for the German army.
It was developed for black powder guns(corrosive if there ever was corrosive) at beginning of 1900's.
I have used it to clean up fire, smoked items.
Does not harm plastic, wood, paper etc etc.
As stated it does have an aroma of it own.
Use it to clean mill tools and other items around the shop.
FWIW

[MasS&W]

I've been shooting surplus 7.62x25 for a while through my CZ. I actually don't have any special cleaning regimen, just the standard anal-retentive-clean-until-patches-come-out-clean thing. Hoppes 9 or hoppes copper solution, generally the former, both if its been a heavy shooting day. All my guns get similar treatment, minus the copper solvent because they never see copper :-P

[9.3X62AL]

Mas, the CZ-52s usually have chrome-lined chambers and bores in OEM form. This is a feature of many Soviet Bloc firearms to guard against bore corrosion, though I don't entirely trust ANY anti-corrosive other than LOTS of hot water, followed by Hoppe's and re-oiling.

Non-corrosive priming and air conditioning are two modern innovations I support whole-heartedly. :)

[cliff55]

Have not shot much corrosive ammo. Shoot lots of BP. WD 40 truly has a place as a water displacer

[bruce drake]

Just make sure you follow that WD-40 with a good coat of oil.

[William Yanda]

When I went through Basic Training-Does that sound like the beginning of a sea story?-Well anyway, regarding showering with, the way I heard it was to shower with your weapon and use aerosol shaving creme to clean the weapon. It by the way was an M-16 so I guess that dates me.
Bill

[Molly]

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use WD40 on any firearm as it induces rust. I have tried WD40 on a suggestion and have found rust on my rifle after using it. The best surface protectant for any firearm is the Remington gun oil with teflon as this oil has been proven to penetrate the metal itself. I've never found any rust whatsoever after using the Remington oil. Thanks, BC

Speaking as a former research chemist in the field, you're not quite accurate my friend. WD40 does not INDUCE rust. It simply fails to provide any decent level of rust resistance, and the metal will rust if the relative humidity is much over about 55%.

Several decades back, I was dismayed to discover that my guns were rusty. ALL of them. Nothing you could see, but a white rag wiped over the surface came away rust red. I went on a campaign. I tried literally everything on the market at the time, including all the silicone oils, you name it. I found exactly ONE product that would leave me with a clean white rag after a coated gun had a few days to develop rust. That product was RIG, which are the initials for Rust Inhibiting Grease. I started using it on everything, and never again experienced rust on my guns, no matter how severe the conditions. Rig however, does have one drawback: It is a soft grease, and unless put on in VERY thin films, it has a tendency to leave your gun somewhat greasy or tacky. The excess can be rubbed off with a soft cotton cloth to leave an apparently dry surface, but enough RIG remains to still give good rust protection.

Later on, I learned of several other materials that would do a decent job of protecting steel from rusting. One of the most simple, cheap and effective solutions is simply parriffin wax from your grocery store, dissolved in a bit of lamp oil. It isn't as good as RIG, but it's cheap, effective, and has the added benefit of drying to a hard, dry surface. You can put it into faster solvents like Xylene or Naphtha, but then it doesn't wick into the the smallest nooks and crannies like it does using lamp oil. Parriffin has the triple advantages of low cost, pretty decent performance and it leaves the surface of your gun quite hard and dry.

Edit: I should have added my current favorite rust protection, which is a lamp oil solution of standard Alox 606. It is simplicity itself, as my procedure is to dampen (not soak) a cotton ball or patch with lamp oil and rub it onto a block of Alox 606 until it takes on a dirty brown color. I then use this cotton ball to wipe my guns down. The film is so thin that despite the low volatility of lamp oil, the metal surfaces are "dry to handle" in a couple of hours. This falls somewhere between parraffin and RIG in handleability, as you CAN leave a fingerprint smear on the surface, but it does not feel greasy. FWIW, Alox 606 is also sold comercially as one of the higher melting bullet lubes, though I don't recall which one it is.

Hope this helps.

[The Virginian]

Cleaning firearms after shooting corrosive or "mildly corrosive" ammunition from my experience

Many new owners of milsurp C&R firearms are usually very excited that they own a piece of history that they can shoot with period correct discounted surplus ammo and don't understand the impact that this vintage ammunition can have on their new firearm. There are lots of good milsurp firearms that have been damaged or even ruined by the improper cleaning after shooting this corrosive ammunition. Prior to about 1956, US Military ammunition contained corrosive primers that are potassium chlorate based that when fired produces a corrosive salt that is spread through the barrel, onto the muzzle and sights and into the bolt and action of a firearm. Many sources of surplus Soviet Block, Chinese, Eastern European, African, Indian, Middle Eastern and allied WWII and earlier ammunition also has been loaded with corrosive primers. It is a safe assumption that if you are not sure of the type of primers used in that economical case of Egyptian 9mm Luger, that to be on the safe side assume they have corrosive primers. Also do not assume since the seller billed the ammo as "mildly corrosive" that it is not a big deal as it is as realistic as being " mildly pregnant." There is no such thing as "mildly corrosive" as the ammo is either primed with corrosive primers or it is not! Treat ammo that has the word corrosive in it as simply corrosive primed ammo.... period. The process of shooting corrosive ammunition in your firearm is perfectly normal for many milsurp guns as it was done for decades and it was believed that the corrosive primers were more stable than early non-corrosive primers. Most US and European ammunition made today uses a non corrosive primer that is lead based and can be cleaned up in the usual fashion with a good bore solvent and general solvent followed by wiping the parts and re-oliling them. This IS NOT the case when shooting corrosive ammunition in your firearm as there is a spraying and layering of corrosive salts that are not removed by using typical bore solvent like Hoppe's #9 and the corrosive salt will remain to hydroscopically pull moisture from the air to start to rust your valued firearm even when oiled. The good news is corrosive salts can be removed with very simple methods and making sure that the firearm is cleaned reasonably soon after a range session involving the firing of corrosive primed ammunition will prevent it from developing rust. Do not let your gun sit with corrosive primed ammunition especially in a moist environment for more than a day and even that is pushing it in my opinion.

One of the tried and true methods of cleaning away corrosive primers involves using two very available household items.......hot water and diswashing soap like Dawn Liquid....no magic, no spells or voodoo dolls are needed! LOL!

After a shooting session using your economical surplus corrosive ammo, remove the bolt and magazine (if the gun has one) . Get a bucket, fill it with very hot soapy water and drop the bolt and magazine into the hot soapy water. Next take a tooth brush and scrub vigorously in all the nooks and crannies paying particular attention to the bolt face and on the feed lips and follower if there is a magazine. After the part has been scrubbed and is clean, rinse in clean hot water and dry with compressed air or something like gunscrubber or brake cleaner (non-chlorinated formula) and set aside. If shooting a semi-auto, disassemble and clean the gas piston and any parts that are using the gas from the fired case to work the action and clean as described for the bolt. Next run two very soapy patches wetted with hot water through the bore and chamber(s) of the firearm. Next run a bronze brush wetted with more soapy hot water through the bore/barrel 2-3 times. Get some very hot water and a funnel with an attached flexible piece of appropriately sized rubber tubing at the end pour the clean hot water from the breach end through to the muzzle and into an other bucket. I like to then run 2 more soapy hot water patches down the bore again and rinse once more. To ensure all moisture is gone I then saturate a patch with acetone, gunscrubber or break cleaner and run it down the bore. Between the the drying of the break cleaner and heat from the hot water the bore dries very quickly. I will also try to wipe down with soapy water and then hot water on patches, any areas that may have been exposed to the corrosive salts like the front sight, then spray them with acetone or gunscrubber to dry. After I am satisfied that everything has been scrubbed, rinsed with hot water and dried off I then clean and oil the gun and its respective parts as I normally would if not shooting corrosive primers. I use a good bore solvent on the bore and Ed's Red home made gun solvent that is made of equal parts of ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid), K1 Deodorized Kerosene and mineral spirits on everything else. This is just my chosen gun solvent, but any of the commerical solvents like Hoppe's #9, Shooters Choice etc will work fine. Any good gun oil will work fine but my favorite when oiling after shooting corrosive primers is CorrosionX that is designed for marine and aviation environments. When cleaning the bore make sure that all the final passes of your drying patches come out clean and if not, clean again until they are squeaky clean. Lastly, use a good gun oil to lightly oil the bolt, magazine and bore then wipe down the gun with a clean oiled rag or patch before putting it away. It is also prudent to check your gun 1-3 days after shooting corrosive ammunition and cleaning it to make sure you didn't miss anything and to ensure no rust has formed. If for some reason it has started to get surface rust after that time, repeat the cleaning process from step one and monitor the firearm for any signs of rust. Typcially after this second cleaning you should not have a problem and seldom if ever if the first cleaning was done properly. Shooting corrosive ammo requires a few more cleaning steps to keep your gun free of rust, but considering the savings in surplus ammunition it can be well worth the work.