Lyman 12g slug mold and rifling swage

[wrg-inc]

Any of you using one of these? There is one on ebay at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lyman-Ideal-rifled-shotgun-Slug-Mould-Swage-Die-12g_W0QQitemZ7218564778QQcategoryZ71118QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

It is spose to take the cast 12g slug and swage the rifling on to it.

[357maximum]

The following is my opinion from years of trying to make a 15 yard pile of sand into a 20 yard pile of sand and lead.

Look left, that critter was taken with a home rolled lyman 20 gauge slug through a junk ol mossberg shotgun with a cantilever scoped barrel at 120+ yards using old school wad technology and loading data older than I am.



If you are interested in this for use, the mold is a good thing. The rifling however will not do anything for you. (look at a stop time picture of a bullet in flight). The only thing the rifling might do for you is help swage the slug to meet your bore if you are trying to force it through a tight choke, I believe that is why it was originally invented was to make slugs a little more lawyer proof. To my knowledge rifled over smooth slugs make VERY little difference in accuracy or practicality.

Someone out there will more than likely pay good money for that, just to have it in their VINTAGE COLLECTION.

" The proceeding is just my opinion and some may disagree, but you know what they say about opinions"

[44man]

That would be nice to have as a collectors item. It has been a long, long time since the swage was made. But I am broke!

[357maximum]

44man


?why the scope and the laser? curious

[45 2.1]

Look left, that critter was taken with a home rolled lyman 20 gauge slug through a junk ol mossberg shotgun with a cantilever scoped barrel at 120+ yards using old school wad technology and loading data older than I am.

Well, i'm interested in that 20 gauge slug load and the old wad technology and loading data older than I am. Would you give me a rundown of the whole thing please as I just aquired a H&R rifled 20 gauge slug gun and would loike to know how to get it going good.

[Wayne Smith]

Man, if that were a 16ga I'd snap it up for my combination gun. I guess I'll be happy shooting round balls out of it.

[44man]

357, I use the gun for deer and the Tasco scope was so dark in the morning and evening that I put the laser on. My friend gave it to me, (the scope was free too) but it didn't work very good when it started to get light. Didn't work at all when it was full daylight. It was fun to play with though, had to shoot at reflectors.
Recoil destroyed the laser so that is gone. I put an Ultra Dot on the gun and removed the scope too. Now I can see deer and it worked great last season.
Pistol scopes are a lot darker then rifle scopes because of the long eye relief so anyone wanting one for hunting should look through some to make sure they are bright enough in dim light. My old Leopold and Burris scopes were way too dark also. I didn't like seeing deer walking by, extending the gun and not being able to see either the deer or crosshairs with both eyes open. We can hunt from 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset but I could not see until the deer were gone.

[357maximum]

45 2.1 you got a pm..

[StarMetal]

44man

Pistol scopes aren't dark because of the long eye relief, they are dark because they don't have the large lens like rifle scopes to gather the light. You know darn well rifle scopes have mostly gone to 48 and 50 mm to gather even more light.

I've found a scope can always let you see a tad better in dark conditions, but the problem was mainly being able to see the crosshairs and if the deer is a buck, should it be a buck only hunt.

Have you thought of using an illuminated reticle scope?

Joe

[felix]

Put the center of the scope at the point of aim on the target. You don't need crosshairs. I like target scopes with the 1/8 inch dot at 100 yards with fine crosshairs for grouping and/or extremely fine targets. ... felix

[carpetman]

Starmetal----The MAIN factor in how much available light is usable is the exit diameter. That is determined by a ratio of the power to the size of the objective lens. For example a 2x scope with a small objective of just 20MM would give an exit of 10MM. Once the exit has matched the actual size of your pupil you gain no more. Scopes,binoculars dont generate light and going bigger objective doesn't gain a thing. In the example I used above where you had a 10MM exit---most of us,especially older folks only have a pupil size of about 5MM so if that 2x scope only had a tiny 10MM objective it would be as bright for us as the larger 20MM. Get a pair of 7x35 binoculars and a pair of 7x50's and go out at night and do a side by side test---I defy you to tell any difference---a young person might notice a little--very little. You can also go out at night with a variable powered scope and start on the most powerful setting---that will be the most dim setting. Start decreasing the power and the scope gets brighter to a point--then no brighter. If the ratio atleast matches your pupil it could start out as bright as it's going to get. For example if you had a 3.5 x10 power variable with a 50MM then at 10x you would have 5MM and if your pupil is 5MM it would be the same brightness throughout. Same experiment witha 3x-9x witha 40MM at 8 power you would have that same 5MM exit and most likely at 9 power you wouldn't notice the slight difference. Looking through something at arms length as in pistol scope would make it dimmer.

[StarMetal]

The exit pupil describes the diameter of the parallel light bundle which enters your eye. The exit pupil light diameter is not going to get smaller the farther your eye is away from the lenses, if anything it will cone out or get larger. Also a test to get an estimate of what the size of the exit pupil of any optics are is to hold it out at arms distance. The bright circle of light that you see in the rear lense is the exit pupil. Handgun scopes are designed for the eye to be farther away from the rear lense so I believe you're getting pretty close to what the exit pupil light is closer to the lense. In adjusting from twilight to light or visa versa the human pupil dilates anywheres from 2mm to 9mm and normally settles at 5mm for dim conditions and 2mm for very bright conditions. Looking through a handgun scope is still better then no scope at all.

Joe

[44man]

Joe, I have a Burris with a large objective and it is darker then the Leopold, like a black hole. My Tasco has a large dot. I can't see through either in the morning. I see the deer with my left eye but the scopes are just dead black, no dot, no crosshair and no deer. A lighted reticle would work but only TC makes one and it costs more then I have. I hate to sell a gun for a scope. The red dot solves the problem.
That exit pupil must scatter too much with a pistol scope, the eye being so far from the eyepiece. Remember that 5mm shaft of light has to fully enter your eye. If it measures 5mm when it exits the scope, what size is it at 16", it is not a laser. I have never seen a bright pistol scope.
An old Weaver riflescope of 1X or 2X with less then a 1" objective is 4X brighter or more, then a pistol scope.

[StarMetal]

44man

I have an old 2x Tasco 30mm pistol scope. Let me grab it and look thru it here right now, it's just getting dark. Will report back.

Joe

[StarMetal]

44man

It's a Tasco 2x Pro-Class. It has the very small dot reticle with very fine crosshairs. Okay I just looked thru it. It's 6:30 here in the mtns of TN...it was slightly better then my eye alone. In some instances I could barely see the dot. Now if it had a lit reticle or dot, it would be very serviceable.

Joe

[floodgate]

Joe:

An "oversize" exit pupil DOES give you a bit more latitude as to positioning your eye (provided the 'scope has little or no parallax), as you will get the same view wherever your eye pupil falls within the exit pupil. It's up to the shooter whether this is worth the extra diameter of the scope bells, weight, etc.

floodgate

[44man]

Gotta remember us old geezers need more light, even to read. I still see good in the dark but that is from side vision, not centered in the lens.

[carpetman]

44Man---Older folks needing more light goes back to what I said about pupil size. Pupils (not the type schoolteachers have)get smaller as you get older. Ever notice it takes longer for your eyes to adjust in lets say a dark theater? Couple this with what I said about the exit diameter of optics and in a lot of cases folks going to bigger objectives aren't gaining a thing from it,if their cow wer using it,they would benefit.

[44man]

My eyes change from light to dark extremely fast, always did. I can go into a dark room or theater and in seconds can see. But this is not with the center of my eye that is needed through a scope. My wife and grandson have to stand around for 5 minutes and still can't find me. I think it is from wearing sunglasses all my life. I refuse to go in the sun without sunglasses. I am 68 and have no sign of cataracs. I walk through the woods before daylight and at night all the time without a light.
Still doesn't help with a dark scope. I hunt from treestands and looking through a dark scope towards the ground is where the biggest problem is. Later in the day I hunt from the ground and there is no problem. The only solution has been the red dot. Open sights do not exist in dim light.
Felix, I would NEVER shoot at a deer by trying to center it in a scope that I can't see through. If I can't make a sure, killing shot, I do not shoot at them.

[felix]

I don't understand a real hunting situation. But for riva' shootin', I have to see the tin can to shoot it. It has to be in the center of the scope, or I won't shoot either. I could care less if a red dot or a cross hair was there too, assuming I could see that the can was centered. I know the scope was centered before hand in terms of the ocular center being at the point of aim. ... felix

[44man]

Ok for fun shooting, but when a deer's life is in the balance I will not take a chance on wounding one. Either a clean quick kill or I don't shoot. I would pass up a shot on the biggest buck on earth if I was not sure of a clean kill. I take some long shots and have killed all of them, but if I am not holding steady, I let them go. If I can't see them, they also walk away.