Aluminum tip bullets

[BT Sniper]

Hey guys,

I would like to say this was my weekend achivement but it was not though it is my primary goal when I got into this swaging hobby. It is a 280gr .338 "Henson Aluminum tip bullet" pictured next to a Serria 300 grain match king.

You can check the thread an longrangehunting.com as it has sparked alot of interest. Shooters are getting BCs of 1.0 and better.

I did sit down in front of a lathe for the first time over the weekend and made some new punchs for my dies. A very cool experience and will continue to try more challenging projects. Swage dies for various calibers to be specific. I will be studing these .338 style bullets and see what I can come up with. Anyone one have a nickels worth of advise for me as to making swage dies. I will try to find Corbin's book Discover Swaging as people have said there is good info in it relating to making dies. Is this true?

Thanks guys Keep up the good work as I totally enjoy all the new projects you all have been posting.

Good shooting

Brian

[deltaenterprizes]

It looks similar to Noslers Balistic tip bullets

[cuzinbruce]

Yes, "Discover Swaging" has a lot of good info on the subject.

[rbt50]

did you use aluminum rod to make the tip, ?

[runfiverun]

noslers......thats where i have seen that insert shape before.

[jhrosier]

The bullet with the aluminum nose cone bears a striking resemblance to the .50 cal Hornady Amax bullets that I bought several years ago.

Jack

[BT Sniper]

Hey Guys,

Didn't try to fool anyone with the pick of these impressive bullets but I didn't actually make these. They are made by a guy in Canada named "Hensen". Some day I will attemt to make these bullets as I am just trying to gather ideas and info on making the dies for them.

For info on the LRH sight just search Alunimum tip bullet and it should come up.

Good shooting

Brian

[JohnM]

Making tips out of Aluminium is very time consuming and I didn’t think was worth the effort, especially for larger Calibres.

I’ve also looked at plastic tips (ie: Hornady and Nosler). The problem with these was plastic injection machine not giving out a constant tempter, hence slightly different sizes though out a run. It could be done by moulding a shape close to what you want and then using a cutter to finish it off. I think both Hornady and Nosler mould plastic tips in place. They both use different plastic.

I’m pointing bullets that have 3 processes that I’m happy with at the moment. The 308 I’ve tested has achieved a 1¼ MOH increase in Vertical.

Happy Easter
John

[TAWILDCATT]

I had a lot of 7.35 carcano bullets and tried to size them to 6.5..found out they had alum tips.303 british had wood and then alum and I think the last was plastic,
in the tips.it unbalences the bullet when it hits.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[kombayotch]

What about swaging them out of solid domed rivets? They come in all sizes and are made from copper, brass or aluminum.

http://images1.mcmaster.com/Contents/gfx/large/97386a245p1l.png

Point them and then use a second punch to flare the bottom of the stem so that the lead has something to hold them in by. A feature could also be swaged onto the stem before that to stop them from rotating... Actually, the toothed collet in a pop-rivet gun that pulls the breakaway stem through usually leaves some nice marks on them could allow the core to grip the ballistic tip.

[ReloaderFred]

A forum member, Blaster62, makes a really neat aluminum tipped .30 caliber bullet using a Corbin Hydraulic press and Corbin aluminum tips. I've got some samples of his bullets and they're so sharp you can prick your skin with them, if not careful. I believe he dulls the tip a little bit for his production run bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Spanners]

There is alot of debate all over the LR forums about custom bullets and BC
Claims of 'Over BC 1.0' have been tested and shot down many times (pardon the pun)
Any improvements on factory bullets and BC are minor and impossible to quanity givent he number of variables.

There was a thread on Snipers Hide ongoing for a LOONG time which basically resulted in a b***h fest with a couple of mfg getting their thing out waving around that 'mines bigger and better'

[kombayotch]

Bryan Litz does an excellent job of quantifying BC and his method is explained very well in his books. The issue is that a good number of those people couldn't run a scientific test if their life depended on it.

It can be done with drops as well. I posted a report over on Snipers Hide detailing that, and Bryan chimed in.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=966431&Board=8

Making the meplat smaller will indeed increase BC to some extent, that the idea behind bullet pointing (also explained in Bryan's books).

[Spanners]

Yes but you cant take a bullet of X design and BC 0.85 and make it over 1.0 by pointing, nor can you make a bullet with same or similar form factor as bullet X over 1.0 - unless you build with Tungsten, but getting the weight up will reduce the effective BC as cant be shot as fast
One of the problems of 416 Barrett - get the BC on paper and you cant push it fast enough to use it - hence why 375 WILL be THE cal of choice.

Also by giving a bullet a G7 value of 0.xx that value is only applicable at that speed (whether you have worked it out from drops of double chonrys whatever)
Shoot that same bullet 500 fps faster, you WILL NOT get the same G7 numbers - but 'apparently' according to BL the G7 of a bullet whether calced or tested IS THE G7 - THE magic number

[kombayotch]

Where does he say it doesn't change at all with speed? Provide a reference... a specific page in his book.

[Spanners]

I dont have his book
It was in one of the wankoffs they were having on Snipershide
IIRC The change in G7 was so small that it was said to be disregarded, and thus the G7 is THE value - I think it also cam up on LFH during another toss fest.
Someone went and worked back from comeups at over 1000yds and then shot same bullet ~500fps faster and the G7 was drastically different to the point if you use THE number you'll be off target everyshot
No answer to that one..


I'm still waiting some someone to be able to explain to me what my 20" and 26" 308s with same twist barrels, same shooter, shooting the same proj at same speed over same chrony using same scope results in different drops, and why anyone should really give a **** :)

[kombayotch]

And how drastic was the change in BC value when the guy repeated his test a second time at the same velocity? He did run each test more than once at each velocity to ensure that the results were repeatable right?

Comparing two bullets (or even the same bullet at different velocities) under different conditions is not the optimal way to compare them in a long range test to determine BC based on drops. It's better to run them simultaniously, alterating them at each shot. Then, at least they were fire under the same contitions and any errors in reading those conditions or changes in them will bias the results equaly for each bullet/load.

[BT Sniper]

Wow, Seems we have brought life back to an old thread. Nice to see we have some LRH (long rage shooters/hunters) on the forums.

I've spent years reading over the LRH and Snipers hide forums and have enjoyed the knowledge that can be gained from many there that go long!

Bryan Lytz seems like a guy that knows his stuff when it comes to balistics. I need to get his book some day. Anyone here looked into his book? I remember him actually testing these bullets mentioned, think is was 338 cal. Pretty interesting to say the least. Really got into a pissing match, not from litz but the other guys tryong to prove their bullets.

Anyway I would love to BS a bit more about long range shooting and high BC bullets. I had offten thought about the 375 as well. I would love to hear more about it vs. the 416 or 338s.

I have a 338 EDGE myself. Love to shoot it and soon will be shooting a few of my custom bullets threw it. I can only hope to get as good of accuracy as I'm getting with the 300 SMKs.

[Spanners]

komb- I dont remeber the number to be honests - other than is was guaranteed miss on 24x36 steel plate at 1200+ enough to be an issue
I kept out of it - G7 numbers are not the be all and end all compared to G1, infact I will hold good G1 data closer than THE G7 anyday.
Think of G7 as being 1/3 G1 - any variantion is seen 3x in G1 data - velocity banding is simply required as the curves SHOW the G7 to change - just less than G1 - 1/3 less?

Its all vodoo and snake oil - noone really knows exactly whats going on - but the guy next to you will always think he knows better, and nothing quatifiable works for EVERYTHING.
I'm over the days of pissing matches online - there are some VERY smart people out there who avoid forums for the same reason where infact if they were listened to, people would learn alot.

I;m just here to learn how to make all this copper, lead and plastic become boolits in my hydro :)

BT - Replied to PM - send me email

[kombayotch]

In then end it doesn't matter which drag model you use as long as you've calibrated it to the ballistics computer and equipment you're using. As much as I like testing bullets for BC, I don't actually use the ones with the highest BCs. Most of my match loads are with SMKs, which are at the lower end of the BC scale. But they shoot damned fine and I never have to chase the lands to keep them shooting as the throad erodes like I do with VLDs. They keep shooting good in my old "shot out" barrels long after the VLDs refuse to group anymore.

I agree that .375 is probably the ultimate caliber, but only if you have the case capacity of the Cheytac or larger. I believe that in .338 Lapua/Edge sized cases, a high BC 8mm bullet would actually do better than the .338 for the same reasons .375 does better than .416 in the larger case. I'd like to play with that at some point, but nobody makes high BC 8mm bullets. So, I'll be making my own...

[MIBULLETS]

My Dad shoots F-Class with BL. Good guy. Some of my Dad's swaged 30 cal bullets are in his new book too.

[BT Sniper]

My Dad shoots F-Class with BL. Good guy. Some of my Dad's swaged 30 cal bullets are in his new book too.

Have we seen any of your dad's bullets pictured here before? If not I sure would like to see a few. Probably going to have to buy BL's book too. Heck for that matter I need to be shooting more comps and get out and meet some of these guys myself.

As for the 8mm comment, I do have a 8mm die I have not made a bullet with yet. I'll have to experment a bit :)

BT

[MIBULLETS]

No I haven't posted any here. I don't have any right now. If I get to his house soon I will though. If you have BL's book, they are the bullets from Dietlein Swaging. They are a 14 caliber secant ojive with a rebated boatail. Brian tested them and the BC comes out very well matched up with Berger's.

[BLASTER62]

Here is the 308 that I make.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_164684e3308a5213a3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1589)

[MIBULLETS]

Yep we have some of those tips too. Just haven't got the dies to insert them. What is the ojive and weight on that one?

[BLASTER62]

This one is a 175 Gr, I make up to 210 Gr for 1000 Yd 300Win type guns. I have got a guy shooting them at 1000, he shoots sub moa groups with them 4 3/4 inch. They are 14 ogive