1949 Philip Sharpe Guide to handloading. Excellent reading and im amazed!!!

[mikenbarb]

I just picked up a copyright 1949 Complete Guide To Handloading book by Philip B. Sharpe and im reading it in amazement. I cant believe the knowledge this guy had and its amazing to see some of the equipment he made himself and some is real simple to make. Its a great old reloading book and im looking at the data cringing thinking about blown up actions.LOL. The loads were REAL hot back then and dont think anyone would even consider using them today.LOL. Im just wondering how many other members here have books by him and what years they are. The one I have says Copyright 1937, 1941 and 1949 and mine is 1949 Third edition revised and enlarged. Its a great book and if you can get one I would highly recommend it for some real good reading on reloading and casting. Plus his tips and tricks are great and im going to find alot of his stuff useful for my reloading.

[Poygan]

I first saw this book while stationed on Guam in the sixties and was very impressed with it. I finally located one at a gun show a few years ago. Mine is the third edition, second revision ending in 1953. They may come up on ebay and I suspect they will be pricey.

[mikenbarb]

Im happy because I picked this one up for only 9 bucks. The binding is torn some but its in good shape for its age.:D

[Phil]

It is probably, to this day, the most complete book on hand loading extant. I've had a signed first edition and the 1941 (42 date) supplement for more years than I want to think about. I still use them for reference. The powders they had then more than likely had different burn rates than the powders we have today. PB was a very thorough fellow, and he covered all the bases. It's amazing how much support he got from all the ammunition factories and gun companies. If you want a treat read the section on chronographs. A forty pound chronograph was considered "portable". Great read, get one if you can find it.

Cheers,

Phil

[MtGun44]

I got my copy a couple years ago. Extremely exhaustive treatment,
state of the art at the time.

Still useful and interesting to a ammo geek.

Bill

[mikenbarb]

Im still laughing about the huge 80mm spotting binos he used and the pic of him talking into a dictaphone and making a voice recording of the shooting conditions for every shot he made.LOL. It ran off of a 6v motor with a car battery and was brought to the range every time he went. Now thats what I call hauling alot of stuff to the bench.:-D I think if it werent for reloaders like him our sport wouldnt quite be the same.

[Bret4207]

I'm always amazed that so many of the shooters and reloaders of today don't have Sharpes, Naramores and Matterns books. To me it's like a minister not owning a Bible! Get those old books by Roberts, Whelen, Keith, Crossman, etc and read them and learn. The tools and powders may be dated, but the theory is the same and you'll come to appreciate what we have today.

Phil Sharpe, despite Elmers claims, is really the man responsible for the 357 Mag. The work guys like him did, and there were lots of them back then, is amazing.

[dromia]

You used to be able to down load Sharpes volume as a pdf file from the net but I don't seem to be able to find the link anymore.

Its a big file but worth it, my original coppy is getting a bit worn now so its nice to refer to stuff on screen even although I don't like reading books on screen.

[mikenbarb]

Bret, Those tools arent out of date. Mine just got broken in and they work great now.LOL.:drinks:

[Shiloh]

Got mine, the 1949 edition, from my deceased father in laws basement, along with some other stuff.
Lots of good info. Especially about the early and obsolete, no longer manufactured reloading powders.

Shiloh

[1hole]

I've read the foregoing with satisfaction of the recognition of our predecessors. Much of what I read, especially on the net, shows that many who have "discoverd" reloading in the last twenty years or so assume they know more about every thing than previous generations. Not hardly.

Very few of today's reloaders have any idea of how knowledgeable and inventive the old dudes were, nor how much of what we enjoy today are the results of their insight. Sharpe, Whelen, Nonte, Keith, Ackley, Walker, Harrison, Page, etc., were true giants in guns and reloading. We aren't likely to see their likes again. They would be amused to see the plethora of books, fancy tools and "experts" feeding new guys detailed info on how to crimp, or set OAL, or size, prime and seat correctly. "Smart" new guys, dumb old guys. Yeah.

Much like todays "youth" give themselve credit for computers without any thought that it was their dads and granddads who handed them the computers on a platter, without which they would be lost, unable to even do math problems!

Oh, to be young again; I should have rushed out and gotten rich while I still knew everything. Now it's to late, I seem to have forgotten most of it!

My head hurts, think I'll go to my loading room and cram a few cases.

[Char-Gar]

When I started handloading in 1958, I went down to the local bookstore and order Phil Sharps book and Principals and Practices of Loading Ammuntion by Naramore. I went down to the libary and checked out Mann's book.. The Bullet's Flight from Muzzle to Target and read it three times. There are many other fine old books in my libarary.

Like Bret, I don't see how the younger generation survives without such information. The superficial stuff you get on the internet will never take the place of such knowledge.

[Bent Ramrod]

Sharpe's book is the one that set me on the road to being a handloader. The last edition is available in reprint form in one of those NRA Classics series.

Sharpe didn't do it all himself, but he did a lot of it and had a slew of knowledgeable friends and correspondents. Harvey Donaldson provided a lot of the loading data and Ned Roberts wrote the chapter on loading for Shuetzen rifles.

Except for an article in one of the early Gun Digests, I haven't seen much else of his writing. I get the impression that he was a shooting/handloading editor of some magazine, but I have never found out which. He was on the Technical Staff of the American Rifleman for years.

[Bret4207]

Get a copy of Sharpes "The Rifle in America"! WOW!!!! Talk about your exhaustive research. Phil was an shooting industry man, a ballistician, an Ordnanace Officer and a tech geek long before tech was invented. He was also a prolific writer of fiction articles for magazines back in the 20's and 30's, was a regular contributor to 4 outdoor magazines and at one point had multiple research facilities along the east coast. Pretty interesting guy when you look into his background.

[Char-Gar]

I have always surmised that Phil Sharpe and Elmer Keith had some "issues" as Keith always referred to him as "little Phil Sharpe".

[35remington]

And Sharpe frequently mentioned how his "good friend Elmer Keith" had submitted many loads for testing to ballistic labs that were so overpressure that his copies of their letters to Keith upon testing his loads usually contained warnings about never loading to such levels again, "or else he would have a serious accident."

Phil also related stories of Elmer blowing up revolvers while using unsuitable powders.

[MtGun44]

I hear Sharpe was a small man, but I saw Elmer once and he was no giant himself,
esp if he took the 20 gallon hat off. I've learned a bunch about reloading from both.

Bill

[Bret4207]

The animosity between Keith and just about everyone else is legend. I've talked with people who knew then all back in the day and corresponded with a couple others. They were just men, all had the same weaknesses and anyone else. I've given up putting any of them up on pedestals. Some of the out and out mean things people like Askins Jr., O'Connor and others did to Elmer and other writers are just incredible. Of course most of those guys were usually juiced pretty good, Elmer included, so maybe that was part of it.

Sharpe wasn't a 6'4" logger, but his mind was surely big enough for what he did. On his charges of Keith overloading things- I once posted a load I got from Sharpes book on this site and nearly had my head lopped off by the response to my "300% overload!!!". I originally thought i had made a mistake and transposed the info from another cartridge and promptly threw myself on the sword. I later found the load again in Sharpes book and in an older Lyman book. Given what we know now, I'm guessing almost all the old writers have recommended loads that would be considered drastically overloaded today.

[Willbird]

There are pictures of Sharpe at Camp Perry in a Pith hat, and he was a little pencil neck dweeb :-).

You will really get the willies of you look at Sharpe's data at 55,000 or higher PSI, in the 220 swift, with Hercules 2400 powder.

Askins Jr. I have been told by men who were around him quite a bit was a completely amoral man, who greatly enjoyed killing people.

Some things are interesting, one being that Keith was from a very wealthy family, he did not flaunt that around because he felt people would look down on him if they knew. I always got the impression Sharpe never had to work either.

I do think Elmer did everything he said he did, and quite a bit more, the people who knew him well felt he UNDER stated things if anything. When Elmers loads blew up his guns I do not think he hid them and kept mum about it.

Bill

[Firebird]

Uhh, Elmer Keith wasn't from a wealthy family. Maybe some of the cousins back in Missouri were wealthy, but Keith's parents weren't, and neither was Keith. Read his autobiography ("Hell, I was There"); if the Keith family had been wealthy maybe they could have afforded better medical care for Elmer or his daughter.

[Willbird]

Uhh, Elmer Keith wasn't from a wealthy family. Maybe some of the cousins back in Missouri were wealthy, but Keith's parents weren't, and neither was Keith. Read his autobiography ("Hell, I was There"); if the Keith family had been wealthy maybe they could have afforded better medical care for Elmer or his daughter.


Uhh I did say he tried to downplay the fact that he was not poor. I DID read "hell I was there" and darned if can remember something from the book that would lead me to believe he was dirt poor. There are many ways to measure "wealth". And thinking on it, his cousins could have lead the the "his family had money" statement.

Bill

[mazo kid]

My copy (no dust jacket) is the 2nd edition, reprinted in 1942. I paid $35 for it several years ago at a gun show. I also have the Supplement to the book ($20) also dated 1942.

[wiljen]

I've got both Sharp's and Naramore's in PDF format - what's the legal implications of putting on castpics for Download?

[Bret4207]

Both are still in print. I think that means copyrights are still in effect.

I never got the impression Elmers folks had any money. I thought they were strictly middle class. The rumors of Askins Jr being a rather nasty individual line up with those I talked with who knew him. Warren Page was supposed to be drier than toast with almost no personality, O'Connor was reported to be a drunk and none too nice either. Townsend Whelen was reported to be an old fashioned upper crust type, but very well versed and polite. Parker Ackley was reported to be somewhat short tempered, but basically just the old farm boy he was.

I don't care anymore, they had their good points and bad. I still rather read any of the above of Brown, Crossman, Landis, Skelton..whoever, than to read the scribblings of Boddington, Fortier or most any of todays writers.

[wiljen]

Both are still in print. I think that means copyrights are still in effect.


Kinda what I was thinking and I wouldn't want to deprive the estate of either of royalties due.

[monkeymt]

There are quite a few of Sharpe's used books for sale at Amazon ranging in price from $25 on up depending on the condition.
Mark

[Dean D.]

I currently possess a copy of the 3rd edition which belongs to my Uncle. I grew up with this book as our main reference to handloading. Yes, we would periodically purchase new "updated" manuals from Speer, Lyman, Hornaday, etc... for reference to new powders, cartridges, etc... but we always seemed to refer back to Mr. Sharpe's book.

One thing I have not seen mentioned in this thread is the effects of "lawyering" on our hobby's publications. I recently adjusted the trigger on my Rem. 700 and had a good chuckle at a how-to article covering this when they mentioned the "14 pound lawyer" Remington used for factory trigger pull.

I think Mr. Sharpe's published data definitely pushes the envelope at times but he also states emphatically his "never exceed" loads. Unlike today's watered down loading data, you do NOT want to exceed Sharpe's max loads. He also stressed starting with low end loads and working your way up as each firearm will perform different with listed data. I don't think this is stressed enough to new reloaders. Perfecting loads for each firearm is an art which takes time. Not many in this age of instant gratification wish to take the time needed to perfect the "perfect load".

Just my humble thoughts here. Thanks Mr. Sharpe, every time I re-read your book I glean something more. :drinks:

[Char-Gar]

Bret--- I knew, to one degree or another, several of the folks you mentioned.

P.O. Ackley... I dealt with him face to face on three occasions and by phone and letter a couple more time. He was always polite, helpful and a all around nice guy as far as I could tell.

Charles/Skeeter Skelton.. I visited with him in the hospital (El Paso) several times toward the end of his life. He was quite sick and we never talked guns. I drew a very favorable impression of him. I knew Bill Jordon and we spend allot of time talking about Bill and life on the Border. They were dear friends.

A few years later I lived in Deming New Mexico and knew his Widow Sally. She is a classy lady. Skeeter was blessed with her.

Bill Jordon.. He was still living in Brownsville, Texas when I was in High School. We shot skeet together and he gave me a couple of pistol lessons out on the river. He was a first class human being in all regards. I got to know him quite well and our paths cross several times over the years. He always treated me like a long lost friend when we met. He was a man I admired greatly. He didn't have a temper at all, but was a calm and easy going fellow who had a low center of gravity.

While at a NRA Convention, Bill introducted me to Elmer Keith and Charlie Askins. Askins was polite but that was about it. It was said of him, that he really didn't care much for people. He was very loyal to those friends he had. Lee Jurris was a good friend of his and thinks highly of Askins. For my part, Askins broke one of the most serious Border ethics. He like to talk and brag about the people he had killed. That made him an outcast among most Texas lawmen. He didn't seem to mind much.

I spend several hours with Elmer Keith, Bill Jordon and some others in a hotel bar and the booze was flowing freely. Elmer like to talk, hold court and in general be the center of it all. For all of that he was very nice and kind to me. We wrote back and forth a few times. I think I would have like him very much.

I never met Townsend Whelen, but of all the writers he had the greatest influence on me as a rifleman and shooter. He was a Yankee for sure and for certain, but I sure would like to have shared a campfire with the old man. There will never been another man like Whelen as our times won't grow them.

Oh yes.. A few years back Elmer Keith's home in Salmon Idaho was up for sale and there were extensive photos on the web. It was a modest older (built in the 20s) frame house about 1,600 square feet. He did his reloading in an attic room and there were still some of his handwritten notes in the wooden walls. There was a more modern out building he built to house his big game trophes, guns and gave him a place to write and do the office chores. With retirement coming up I thought seriously about buying the place and spoke with the realtor several times. I gave the idea up as the home was about twice the price of a equivalent some in South Texas. I also didn't know how Iwould adjust to living up there in the cold. I sure didn't get the idea, Elmer had money from the place he lived. I understand what money he had he spent on cigars, guns, hunting and whisky.

[ASM826]

Your posts here convinced me I would be well served to own this book. Prices are all over the place, but I have one ordered for $25.00 and $4.00 shipping.:)

[clodhopper]

I have had a copy for many years. It's a third edition. Really liked the chapter on smokles powder production.

[Bret4207]

Chargar- that all lines up with what I've been told. I knew 2 guys that grew up with Ackley and worked with him in later years. I forget the exact way they stated it, but apparently he didn't suffer fools for long. I'm still in awe of the work he did. You don't hear aobut him much anymore, but the guy did some serious work over the years.

I new several USBP members that knew Bill Jordon, one of my childhood heroes. They all said he was a real nice guy. I wish I could have met him.

Askins.....I don't know what it is about some people. I know a few guys that have had to shoot it out and only one of them, a retired NYC Det., liked to talk about it a lot. He wouldn't shut up about it and had a real thing for Frank Serpico. He was a judge in a little backwater mountain town that got maybe 200 cases a year and he'd block the door so you couldn't leave sometimes! The man needed a wife or a dog or something. I knew some other guys that would get going about Attica when they got juiced. Most of them wouldn't talk about it at all. Takes all kinds as they say.

Skeeter was one of the guys I really would have liked to have talked with a bit. I just love his writing and I always will. I should have ought his books when they were in print.

I used to have coffee every morning with a guy who worked with Keith and Ackley over the war years and knew O'Connor and several of the other big names. This guy had an ego of his own but he sure liked Elmer and Ackely. Didn't have much good to say about O'Connor and I gathered it was from something that happened on a hunting trip where the shot that actually was taken managed to grow in length once it got in print. I really wish I'd had the backbone to just out and out ask what the problem was as I enjoy O'Connors writing. He also was an acquaintance of Ned Roberts and said that man was just a wealth of knowledge. He knew Harvey Donaldson (these guys were all 'chuck hunters back in the day) and said he was a real hoot!

There's still one guy I know through correspondence I'd like to have a long chat with. He was an industry guy from the 1950's on and an Editor of a couple of the biggest mags there were back in the day. He knows all the stories and I'd love to hear them. He's old and sick now, but I bet he could fill a book.

[Willbird]

I had an old friend who had met Bill Jordan, he met him and talked with him for a 1/2 hour, then met him again 20 years later and Bill greeted him by name and they took up the conversation like the 20 years never existed.

Pictures of him with other people are the only way to get a handle on the sheer size of the man, my friend said Bill's hands were HUGE.

Bill

[TAWILDCATT]

I cant talk about the old timers as I only met Bill Jodan at the NRA conventon in boston in 1969.he was tall.and fast.I do have sharps book I bought new in 45 I thnk.its 2nd edition with suppliment and printed 1944.my membership number with NRA was 9117 I wrote it in the cover.covered the book with brown paper which is getting pretty worn.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[1hole]

I have no personal knowledge of the greats of the past but reading these comments sure brings back memories.

I AM fortunate to be aquainted with one of their contemporaries, "Mike" Walker of Remington. (Mike developed the Rem 721, 722, 700 and 40x rifles, invented the .222, a develpoed the .22-250, 7 mag and other cartridges for production.) Mr Walker is a gentleman of the highest order but, like many others of his group, has a low tolerance for fools or jack asses. He meet many of the gun writers of the past at Remington's various "dog and pony" shows and told me some interesting things about most of them.

He was fond of Keith, a large presence gruff, blustery guy you couldn't ignore. Elmer actually liked most folks and loved to talk, but wasn't a lying blow hard as so many are. Seems he earned most of his money, if not all of it, with his guiding and writing.

Mike had no desire for O'Conner's company. Jack enjoyed his toddy. He was the classic social elitist, a stuffy college professor to full of himself to show common courtesy to the 'little people". That disappointed me, I always enjoyed Jack's writting but doubt he would have wanted to mess around with me! Oh well.

Warren Page was perhaps Mike's best friend. They hunted in both Alaska and Africa together. Mike says he was a really pleasant fellow but a bit reserved until he decided someone was worth being around. Seems he WAS something of a well off upper-class patrician but would accept anyone who was serious and knowledgable about guns. He did not care for fools!

Donaldson was a working machinist who had little spare money. He often "borrowed" dies, reamers, barrels, etc. Those who knew him loved him enough to let him have about anything they owned. Sometimes they got it back! He was indeed a witty, intelligent man, both with guns and other things. He, Mike and Page seem to have been the driving forces behind the first BR group in the country.

Mike admired Mr. Jordan and Mr. Cooper. He did not admire the Askins, father or son. That says a lot, to me anyway.

Happily, Mike is still with us. Sadly, he's quite frail and as deaf as a stone. But he is one of a generaton of gunning giants and when he goes a lot will be gone.

[wonderwolf]

I have 3 copies of Sharpes handloading book, 1 is signed the other two I use and bookmark. I've used some of the pistol loads as well as rifle out of the book and some of the "tricks". I also have "the rifle in america" and lots of other books to fill the shelves.

If somebody is looking for a copy of the handloading book by sharpe and has a book by whelen, keith, john taylor or capstick they are done reading I would like to trade.

[Char-Gar]

I guess it is some sign of creeping old age, when folks reflect back and think of times gone by as a "golden age". Seems to happen with every generation. But I swear, it is indeed true that men like those whose names are mentioned in this thread will never walk this earth again. They lived in different time, when life offered different opportunities. They all spent decades learning their craft and gaining knowledge of firearms through experience and direct contact with their elders who were the ground breakers.

Those kinds of people are gone. Replaced by so called gun writers, who get a fancy camera, work up a few loads for a firearm to print in a chart, regurgatate the history of the gun and send it to the publisher. They have no done anything of significance with firearms other than write superficial articles on the subject. I suppose there must be exceptions, but I can't think of one right now.

I work alone in my shop these days, with my cat, my reloading equipment, my hand and machine tools and do the things I was taught be men who were born when this country was still "wild and wooly and full of fleas and ain't be curried below the kness". Yea... I am getting old, but I really don't mind. I had some shining times with guns and good friends. I can still close my eyes and remember Camp Perry when Al Barr and Julian Hatcher were there and holding court for all the young bucks to pick their brains.

[Cap'n Morgan]

You used to be able to down load Sharpes volume as a pdf file from the net but I don't seem to be able to find the link anymore.

Its a big file but worth it, my original coppy is getting a bit worn now so its nice to refer to stuff on screen even although I don't like reading books on screen.

The book can be read online here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3618315/complete-guide-to-handloading-sharpe-1937

You can also download it as a pdf or txt file if you sign up (apparently for free)

[mikenbarb]

Cap'n, Now thats cool! Thanks a bunch.:drinks:

[jcw1970]

Read this post and just had to have one. Ordered mine from amazon. 25 + shipping. Also got his The Rifle in America for 15.

[MtGun44]

Nothing I have ever seen or read about Keith would indicate that he ever had more
than a comfortable middle class life, and that was after he was an adult. His life as a
young man sounds like a normal fairly poor family of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
He spent his formative years near here in Hardin, MO and that is a tiny town and there
sure don't seem to be a lot of rich folks around there now.

I know it is fashionable to knock Elmer as a liar, and I only saw him once and never spoke
to him, but I DO know that when I need to learn how to make a .357 or .44 or .45 revolver
shoot better, I need to review what Elmer said about the situation. I have found him to
be a very reliable source for this info. I have personally seen and in a few cases done some
shots that I am sure most people would think was a lie. I really don't care too much, I tell
the truth, even when the particular shot seems impossible, and go on. I kinda wonder if
some of the "lies" that Keith is said to have told are the same thing, real - but you had to
be there to believe it, esp if you haven't shot too much or too far.

Bill

[Kragman71]

I bought my"Complete Guide to Handloading"in 1950.It was probably a second edition.
I sold it when a Friend gave me a new third edition second revision;hot off the press.The friend was printing them at the time,at the Cornwall Press.
Phil Sharpe was a stickler for details and accuracy.He is a lot easier to support then Elmer Keith.
I refer to that book quite often when answering questions from folks on the web.
Frank

[madcaster]

I have his book on The Development of the Rifle in America,pretty hefty book,but I bought it at the wrong time of year!

[ramon]

This is a very nice thread whose subject is not often heard about.

We go about our personal efforts with firearms, handloading, casting and the like standing on the shoulders of giants.

I have long collected the literary works of Sharpe, Naramore, Hatcher, Keith, et. al. Where I could, I've collected autographed examples of these titles.

Here are few for your consideration.

Here are 4 basic titles:

Sharpe, Complete Guide to Handloading
Hatcher, The Book of the Garand
Hatcher, Hatcher's Notebook
Keith, Big Game Rifles

[ramon]

Here's a typical Sharpe inscription. He would also sign using the phrase, "Here's to better loads...."

[ramon]

The Book of the Garand is a first edition and is inscribed by Hatcher to Phil Sharpe. The books contains Sharpe's marginalia throughout.

[ramon]

Keith's work is inscribed to a friend who has since passed. Very special to me...

[ramon]

Hatcher's Notebook bears his simple inscription.

[johniv]

Great thread fellas, I have met Cooper and Jordan, but I have read almost everything mentioned here, and have learned something from all and enjoyed all of the books and magazine articles these folks wrote. I dont deify (sp) any of them, as every man has his faults.Still it is good to hear from some of you who have met some of these men, and can give a brief look at the person behind the book etc.
Thanks
John

[ASM826]

I read this post about two weeks ago. Based on what I read here, and found searching the web, I bought a copy from Bartleby's Books. It came three days ago. What a treasure of information. Thanks to all of you that pointed me to this book

[ramon]

Phil Sharpe preceded his "Complete Guide to Handloading" with a collection of his Outdoor Life articles which he published in a softback cover entitled, "This Handloading Game."

Difficult to find today, but well worth the effort. You'll recognizeit as the genesis of his later work.

Ramon

[Bret4207]

Sharpes "The Rifle in America" is a must have too. Some other books along the same line as Sharpes "Handloading" book are "Practical Dope on the 22" and "Practical Dope on the Big Bores" both by Fred Ness, a contemporary of Sharpes. Also seek out anything by Charles Landis- "Hunting with the Twenty-Two" is a personal favorite and I've read my edition cover to cover dozens of times.

[Flash]

I aquired a 1952 Third Edition in excelent shape this past winter and bought it in a box lot. A weath of information.

[Dutchman]

Both are still in print. I think that means copyrights are still in effect.


No. Just because there's an edition printed of an old book doesn't mean its the same copyright of the original author. Not at all. Anybody can re-print a book that's out of copyright and that particular edition, by them, can be copyrighted but not all other reproductions of the same book are covered under the new edition copyright.
That's as far as I understand it.

I scanned some original "Description and Rules for the Management of the...." (1903 Springfield). I can claim copyright on my digital version because it was scanned from an original that I own. Dixie Gun Works through their Pioneer Press have republished a gazillion old books including the various and many "Description and Rules for the Management of.... Those go back to the 1863 Zouave, which is the oldest one I have. But they also cover every GI small arm since then to to the M1917 Rifle.

This is the location of the PDF files:

http://stevespages.com/page7d.htm

Hatcher's Notebook should be on your list of "gotta have".

"Our Rifles" was first published in 1920 I think. This PDF version is a reprint done in 1944. Its a pretty good history of "Our Rifles", meaning American rifles. Its the only book I've found so far that mentions one particular rifle by Morgenstern submitted for the 1870-72 Ordnance Dept rifle & ammunition trials. Sometimes its dang hard to study American firearms history when you can't find any dang books that deal with what you want to know!!

"American Firearms 1776-1876" by Butler has great information including information on the 1870-72 rifle & ammunition trials. (rolling blocks, Sharps, Trapdoor, etc).

Dutch

[Phil]

Hi Dutchman,

My copy of "Our Rifles" was printed in 1944 by "Williams Book Store". Further information on the page shows it was indeed originally first copyrighted in 1920 by The Cornhill Company. Then "Copyright purchased by The Cornhill Publishing Company" in 1921. Next was "Williams Book Store" 1941. Evidently Williams did not own, or never needed a copyright statement as there is no mention of it.

Thank you for posting the "stevespages" link. A valuable source. Now, if someone would just do a PDF of Landis's "Shooting the Twenty Two" I'd be in fat city. I have his "22 Caliber Varmint Rifles", Hunting With the Twenty Two", and "Woodchucks and Woodchuck Rifles". All very good reading. Gives me the hots to build a Lindahl Chucker. Also have Ness "Practical Dope on the Twenty Two" and "Practical Dope on the Big Bores". And a whole lot more. All good reading by men who had been there and done that.

Years ago an old shooter and handloader acquaintance passed away. I bought several sets of 22 caliber bullet making dies and several thousand 22 caliber jackets from his widow. He had a pre-war Winchester M70 that was chambered for a couple of versions of what would now be the 22 PPC. Dead ringer, built in the thirties, using 276 Pederson brass and 35 Remington brass. There were literally thousands of 276 Pederson cases with the rifle. The rifle and loading dies, and all the brass went to the grandson who had no knowledge of how to use it, nor desire to learn. He sold all that stuff to a gunshop for pennies. Wouldn't even sell me a couple boxes of the Pederson brass. Thats life I guess. I have quite a few more older books, none of which I will ever get rid of. I get far too much enjoyment out of reading them. Just as I enjoy my complete annotated set of the Sherlock Holmes stories.

Time for bed,

Cheers,

Phil