Converting Berdan brass to Boxer

[JIMinPHX]

With brass getting a little hard to find lately, I've found myself scrounging through some material that I would have turned my nose up at in the past. In particular, I've found myself looking at Berdan brass & asking myself - why can't I make this stuff work again? I'm sure that I'm not the first guy to ask himself this & I'm sure that some of what I just figured out for myself has already been done by others, but I thought that I would just post what I did here & ask for others to comment on it.

I just dove right into it on my own without looking up what others had done first so that my initial attempts would not be swayed by what worked for others in the past. I figured that way I would try more things & the experiment would be more productive.

The first trick would be to get the old primer out. I had heard someone mention hydraulic decapping once & though that sounded like a good idea. I started by turning down a piece of scrap metal to just under the diameter of a fired cartridge neck ID, filling the cartridge with water, inserting the rod & hitting it with a hammer. I started with a steel casing that was garbage anyway because I didn't want to waste one of the few pieces of actual brass that I had. I struck at the rod with my hammer & I was greeted by a high intensity spray of water in the face.

OK, time for prototype modification #1. I added an O-ring to the rod. I tried it again & promptly tore the O-ring on the case mouth. I flared the case mouth with an M die, inserted a new O-ring & bang, it was like magic the next time I tried it. I whacked the rod with a hammer & the primer popped out. I thought I had that one licked. Then I tried that trick with a brass case.

I hit the rod & nothing happened. I hit it a little harder & it was like magic, the neck of the case bulged out to about 3/16" bigger than it should be in diameter. The neck was ruined. What I hadn't realized, was that the brass case had a crimped in primer & the steel case did not. Apparently, the water trick works if the primer is not crimped in. The picture below shows what I got when I tried to resize the case with the blown out neck. It wasn't pretty. Someone who knows a little more about case forming than I do might be able to bring this case back into usable condition, but I don't know how to do it.

[JIMinPHX]

The next idea I came up with was to remove the primer with a boring bar in a lathe. That was educational. It showed me what was under the primer cup, but It wasn't the way that I wanted to keep doing this. I really wanted to come up with a method that the average joe could use in his basement. After seeing that the anvil of the primer was formed into the brass case, I looked inside the case a little closer & saw that there was a dimple in the center. This seemed like a natural center guide for a drill bit, so I rigged up a little drill extension with a stop collar. I have it shown in a Bridgeport here, but it would work equally well in any old drill press. I'll bet I could even use it successfully in a hand drill if somebody bet me that I couldn't.

[JIMinPHX]

With the center spot drilled out of the brass case, a standard Lee type decapping rod & a hammer was able to overcome the crimp that held the primer. I was able to decap successfully, but this leaves you with brass that has more cross sectional area of open passage between the case cavity & the primer area. That may not be the best thing. I also tried to turn the crimp out of the brass case using an E bit on my lathe to see if I could use the hydro trick & not have to drill the extra hole. The E-bit made a mess of the case base. I would need a small trepaning tool or at least a tool with a much better clearance angle to pull that trick successfully. since I didn't want to get that sophisticated on this project, I went back to the drill method. The picture below shows the two methods that I abandoned & the one that I decided to go with. the left shows a failed attempt to turn out a crimp. The center shows a hydro bulge. the right shows the hole drilled through the center of the primer pocket.

[JIMinPHX]

The next trick was to remove the remnants of the primer anvil that had been formed in the primer pocket. I used an end mill in my lathe, but a primer pocket uniforming hand tool would have worked at least as well if not better. I then chamfered the primer pocket a little, like I would on any ex-military brass. Now I was confronted with a primer pocket that was bigger in diameter than a standard large rifle primer. A press fit sleeve seemed like the natural solution. If I had a primer crimping tool to permanently seat the sleeve, that would be even better, but I don't have one, so I just went with a straight press fit.

I got my hands on some half hard navy brass & reamed a hole in the center at .2090" (standard #4 reamer). I tried 3 different OD dimensions, .251, .252 & .253". I made up a simple driver tool out of a piece of 1/4" cold roll & whacked them in with a hammer. The .251" ring went in too easy. I was pretty sure it would be trouble. The other two felt like a true press fit, with the larger one being a little tough to get in.

[osage]

I think you would pull it off with the hand drill so I will not bet you. I think that on Swiss rifle forum there is a good thread on removing berdan primers and converting to boxer for use in cast loads.

man you type fast only two posts when I started mine

[JIMinPHX]

I loaded up the 3 pieces of experimental brass with a modest charge of 11 grains of Unique. All three fired successfully & gave me around 1400fps with normal accuracy & very little shot to shot velocity variation. When I inspected the brass, I saw that the .251" ring had backed out a little bit. The others were still seated flush. When I decapped, the .251 ring came out. The other two stayed put.

I'm thinking that the extra open area between the charge chamber in the brass & the primer pocket probably limits this brass to lower than normal working pressures, but it seems to have been OK for the charge I tried in the gun that I tried. I think that if I stay with primer sleeves that are between .252-.253" in diameter, I should be able to reload several times with just normal loading procedures.

Well gent's, that's what I came up with. What are everybody Else's thoughts on this subject?

[JIMinPHX]

I think that on Swiss rifle forum there is a good thread on removing berdan primers and converting to boxer for use in cast loads.


Do you have a link to that site?

[osage]

No I'm at work and that site is blocked by the IT folks. I think I found it via google when I was looking at getting a K31.

[osage]

I did get to it just now but forums are blocked
http://www.swissrifles.com/

[jack19512]

Although I would give you an A for effort I think I would just try and find the Boxer brass I needed. I do reload the Berdan primed 7.5X55 Swiss brass and have had no trouble decapping it. Here is the only tool I have used in decapping the brass. In order to get a good seal when you decap the tool must be a good snug fit.

I took a fired case and sanded the shank of this broken drill bit until I got the appropriate fit and it works great. Since the Berdan primers are very hard to get and I wanted to keep what supply I had left for special occasions I have since obtained the Boxer primed brass.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/Berdandecappingtool.jpg

[StarMetal]

I know most out gun folks are tinkerers. I've done that myself just to say I did it. Unless things get worse with the component situation it's just not worth the hassle and time to do it. You could drilled them out for a 209 shotgun primer easier for reduced loads only. Buckshot and I done that for the 8x56R Steyr M95's before components became available for that caliber.

You did excellent work on your project.

Joe

[elk hunter]

I've converted berdan cases when I couldn't get or afford boxer primed ones. I grab the case in the three jaw chuck in the lathe and use a small center drill to pierce the primer, then use a small pry bar made from an allen wrench to pry the primer cup out. I then run a 1/4" end mill
.125" in to the primer pocket to take out the anvil. Drill the flashhole. Next I turn down the head of a common/pleantiful large boxer primed case to .255" for about .150" then part it off. Next I press the boxer primer pocket in to the head of the berdan case, the boxer primer pocket is upside down, then I put the case back in the lathe turn off the primer pocket flush with the head of the case and chamfer it. I've fired this type with full house loads with no problems.

[Pavogrande]

To remove berdan primers I use an old lachmiller Berdan de-prime tool - now sold by rcbs -- If the berdan is smaller than large rifle primer -- 7.35 carcano -- I mash the berdan tit, which also closes the two flash holes, then redrill for .209 and a new flash hole -- The berdan .217, and a host of other sizes I just re-drill and spotface the case to accept shotshell battery cup primers -- .241 dia -- Works good for larger rimmed cases like 303, 7.62 russ and 11mm mauser - -- This will also work for 06 size bases -- but is not worth the effort for any case that is available in boxer primer unless they are very, very expensive . The larger berdan primer .254, I think, requires a threaded or pressed sleeve, definitely a labor of love!----- my ha-penny

[rockrat]

You might use some stud and bearing mount loctite (red) to hold the sleeves in place.

[JIMinPHX]

I think that a few of you guys misunderstood my motives here. I didn't think that converting Berdan brass would be a cost effective thing to do. I just wanted to see if I could do it so that in the event I could not get any Boxer brass in a particular caliber, I would not be up a creek without a paddle. I posted about it because I thought that others might find my exploits interesting.

[shotman]

I didnt go though the list but If you look at the cost of the berden primers it may change your thinking there is not many cal out there that boxer brass is not made. graf and midway have a good lot of old cal stuff

[Buckshot]

I think that a few of you guys misunderstood my motives here. I didn't think that converting Berdan brass would be a cost effective thing to do. I just wanted to see if I could do it so that in the event I could not get any Boxer brass in a particular caliber, I would not be up a creek without a paddle. I posted about it because I thought that others might find my exploits interesting.

...............It was an 'excersize' :-) Nuthin' wrong with just seeing if you can, if you had to. Back in the early 90's when Norma was the only game in town for 6.5 Swede ammo (well, CBC was around but spotty) a friend had a bunch of Swede military brass that was used for civilian practice. Nice brass, but Berdan primed. He was very happy until he could no longer find a consistent supply of the right size Berdan primers.

By then I think Pri-Partisan was making it but he asked me if I could alter his brass to use Boxer primers. By that time I was an old hand at altering brass to use 209 Shotshell primers (8x56R, .43 Comblain, 577 Snider and 577-450) but 209's were unacceptable to him. I made up a simple swaging setup. A .264" pin hardened at the end to support the inside of the casehead. The other end of the pin went into a hole in the end of a 5/8" piece of 1018. This set on the arm of his vise and was clamped by the vise jaws.

So you upended a case over the .264" pin. I then turned another piece of 5/8" 1018 that had a nose long enough to mash the anvil down, which effectively closed the 2 Berdan flash holes. It was also the right OD for a LR primer. At the same time there was a larger OD shoulder that swaged the outside of the primer pocket at the rim, inwards. It was effective as it actually swaged probably half the height of the pocket inward. You had to twist the tool to get it out. I used some Kasenit to harden the end.

http://www.fototime.com/D7DD6B64206AB1A/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/50D8EEB82833F33/standard.jpg

This is a similar one I made at a later date to try the trick on some CBC 24 ga shotshells I was using for 577 Snider brass.

After he got his brass altered (and I'd had to make a 2nd anvil pin :-)) I took the brass and made a 3 fingered collet to use in a 9/16" 5C collet in the lathe. With a #2 centerdrill I drilled his flash holes.

.................Buckshot

[shotman]

Now rick if you had to set that up to run 200 brass what would that cost?

[NickSS]

I have reused berdan primers once or twice by the simple expedient of hydraulically decaping the cartridge. I then size the cartridge case and take the spent berdan primer and flattening out the dent in it with a pin punch of the right size. I then placed two green cap pistol caps in the cup and reseated the primer. I then load powder and bullet in the case. This worked for me with black powder in a couple of old rolling blocks until I found boxer primed brass for it.

[Bret4207]

I converted a buncha 8x56R to Boxer. The biggest problem I had was making the Boxer a tight fit.

[docone31]

There is always the easy way.
http://users.ameritech.net/mchandler/primer.html
I was going to have Rick make me one, but the MilSurp brass was too thin.

[jack19512]

I think that a few of you guys misunderstood my motives here.








Nope, not me anyway. :-D Like I said, I give you an A for effort. I have 8mm and 7.5X55 Berdan primed brass that I would love to convert to Boxer primers if it wasn't so much work.

[JIMinPHX]

A quick question for everyone else that's messed with Berdans...

What is the diameter of a Berdan primer supposed to be? Are there different variants?

Elk Hunter was saying that he turns his press fit parts to .255". Mine were tight at .252". I can't imagine a .004" interference on a 1/4" diameter. That just sounds like way too much to be able to get it together. I'm wondering if there are variations in the different brands of Berdan brass or something. Or maybe they clearance fit the pocket in the brass & that's why they need the crimp to hold it in.

Any thoughts?

[NuJudge]

There are lots of different Berdan diameters, and lots of different heights, and on top of that there are many different hardnesses. See here:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/berdan_supplies_dimensions.html

Most common large rifle calibers produced in the West used .217" Berdan. The .303 British used .250" Berdan, although FN and late South African .303 was .217" Berdan. Most 7.62x54R is .254" Berdan, except for Albanian and early Bulgarian which is .217". IIRC the 6.5 Italian uses a .200" Berdan.

There are also small rifle Berdan sizes.

Its almost enough to drive me to Boxer. Almost.

CDD

[higgins]

The only 7.62X54R milsurp berdan brass I've personally seen that I would even consider for conversion for reloading, even for light loads, is the nny 80s(?) brass. I have fired a lot of Bulgarian brass-cased 54R that looks good, is well annealed, but either cracks in the neck or mid-upper body too frequently (light ball) or leaks around the primer about 50% of the time (heavy ball). The Albanian 54R brass I've seen is definitely "one shot" brass. Most .303 Brit. seems to be good brass, but could use a neck anneal; in fact .303 may be the only milsurp round that I've never picked up an empty military case (and I've scavenged a lot) with a nasty rupture across the base or in the head of the case; maybe the "flange" is good reinforcement (feel free to post your photos of ruptured once-fired .303 cases at this time). In 8X57, again nny from the 70s and 80s looks good, but 50s Yugoslavian is suspect; only a couple of months ago I had a 1954 Yugo rupture down about the bottom third of the case and across the head to the primer pocket (yes, the K98 was unscathed). I admire anyone with the abilities and the tools to do this, and I'm sure it's rewarding when it works. I guess the bottom line of my post is to be very critical of milslurp brass, particularly some 54R and 8X57. and don't assume it's good just because it may look good.

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi
I see this has been thought out a few times. I like everything I have read here. For my twist I get the case decapped and anvil drilled and cut flat.I then made some sleeves that pressed into the .217 pocket. The sleeves where drilled for a good fit for small rifle primers. Still a lot of screwing around but they do work.
n.h.schmidt

[LEDSLINGER]

You might use some stud and bearing mount loctite (red) to hold the sleeves in place.

rockrat might be on to something. I was a maintenance machinist for 20 yrs. and used it a lot. It's tough stuff and really grips!

[TDB9901]

For what it’s worth……

I’ve recently been fooling around with something along this line, and found something that may be of interest this morning.

I got a box or two of Eastern Bloc, 7.62X39, brass cased, Berdan primed stuff quite awhile back, and shortly after shooting some of it, drilled and countersunk it for 209 shotshell primers, ( Pretty simple, as mentioned in a previous post) planning to reuse it as low pressure plinkers.

Just the other day, I finally got around to digging it out, and doing so, found that it worked OK……as expected. BUT…..when I again resized, and decapped it, the center came out of the 209, leaving the cup……………HMMMM…….. After studying the pocket for a bit I decided to do some experimenting, and found that a spent Large Pistol primer,….. with a flash hole drilled in the center……. would bottom out in the 209 pocket, and a live Large Pistol primer would seat almost perfectly on top of it…………. A Large Rifle in the bottom left me with too shallow a pocket, and the new primer was too high for safety, but two Large Pistols looked just about right.

Haven’t fired any of them yet, but if kept in the low pressure range I’m dealing with for the 209’s I don’t see why it shouldn’t work. There may of course be variations in sizes of primers, and cups, but with Remington 209’s and Wolf large pistol, it seems to be about right, and a possible solution for using the Berdan brass for something , and with a bit more economy than a new 209 every time.

Maybe not a big deal, but I thought it interesting, and worth sharing.

Tom

[KCSO]

I'd give it a try and see if there was any leakage. If not it should be a cheaper way out. I haven't bought any shotgun primers in years so I don't knoow if the cost difference would be worth it. I have to admit that the last time there was a primer SHORTAGE me and a friend both stocked up on everything and when he died I got his stash too. I have 5 thousand shotgun primers now and I load 100 black powder loads a year. All together I muust have 30-40 thousand primers put upp in ammo can's.

[leadman]

Jim, I was thinking about the case necks expanding with your punch set-up. Ever use one of the Lee reloading kits you use with a hammer? It has a die that the case is driven into to size the neck, then it is set in the base and a rod is used to drive it out. You could make a similar die that was a little larger so it supported the neck but did not fit real tight. Then you could have a base with a recess in it to position the case for primer removal.

It might be best to size the neck before primer removal so when the neck expanded it would be about the same size as a fired case.

[Frank46]

Was going through my stash and found about 45 south african 303 cases. The idea of converting them to take boxer primers was kind of complelling. This is great brass
and doesn't deserve being chucked into the scrap bucket only after one use. Wouldn't there be some way to swage the primer pocket down in size so as to be able to take the standard large rifle primer. I seem to remember someone doing something similar to that process. I believe the gentleman was trying to extend the life of magnum cases because after a few shots his brass had expanded so much that the primers just about dropped into the primer pocket. The setup was quite simple. I believe he took the case and set in on a rod in the vertical position, than took the primer pocket swager and hit it with a hammer to close up the primer pocket. Supposedly he extended the life of his cases by a great amount. Now magnum pressures should not exist in the 303 british case. So maybe his system could be adapted to lower pressure cases. Frank

[JIMinPHX]

Jim, I was thinking about the case necks expanding with your punch set-up. Ever use one of the Lee reloading kits you use with a hammer? It has a die that the case is driven into to size the neck, then it is set in the base and a rod is used to drive it out. You could make a similar die that was a little larger so it supported the neck but did not fit real tight. Then you could have a base with a recess in it to position the case for primer removal.

I had thought about making a ring to support the neck so that I could do the water trick without blowing out the neck, but if the neck was supported, I think that the brass would just give somewhere else. I'm not sure about that. I didn't try it. It's just that my expectation of poor results made me try something else first. That may indeed work. The next logical step in that progression would be to support the whole case in a sizing die while hydro decapping. It just seemed like too much work, so I went the other route. The idea does have merit though. I may try it some day if someone else doesn't get to it first. Thanks for the idea.

[relics6165]

Guys:

I've been lurking here a long time, and have learned, or relearned, quite a bit. I'ts been a long time since I fired up the ol' lead pot and cast a few (time problems, y'know), but, like everybody else, the high prices of everything have got me to thinkin'.................yes, I know, that can be a dangerous thing! One of the things I do in my line of work is come up with unconventional solutons to keep aging machinery running, and I'm attempting to apply some of this logic to berdan primed brass.

Like a lot of y'all, I have a plie of berdan primed brass I just haven't been able to make myself chunk, or sell to the recycler (oops, too late for that.................!). The thought of either finding berdan primers (oops, too late for that, too............!), or converting the brass to boxer primers has been rolling around in my mind for quite a while now.

This post will refer to .217 (the most common size) berdan primed brass, and full power loads. I am actually thinking of 7.62x51 South African or Portugese brass, with crimped and sealed primers, but what I'm thinking should work for other brass, too. This should work with .250 berdan primers if the cup is over .020" thick, maybe even better than .217 primers.

One of the things I'm seeing (actually reading) is that y'all are all thinking about depriming your brass first, then trying to fill the now too big primer pocket with a sleeve to get back to a .210 large rifle primer. Now, what I'm thinkin' will definitely require a lathe, but here goes......why not use the sides of the old berdan primer as your sleeve?

My thinking goes something like this.......

Take your brass, pop it in the appropriate collet in your lathe, and machine off the face of the primer. Then remove the case from the collet, swage the existing anvil back into the case head, thereby closing the berdan flash holes. Then place the case back in the collet, ream (or machine) the existing primer sides to .210, uniform the pocket, and then drill the new flash hole.

The only potential problems I see with this method might be the thinness of the primer pocket bushing (.217-.210= .007/2=/.0035). However, with the remains of the berdan primer being held in place with the existing (undisturbed) primer crimp and sealant , and then locked in place at the bottom with the brass displaced when swedging the anvil, it might hold.

Anybody that tried this would certainly know when they deprimed the case the first time with the new boxer primer.........if the sleeve popped out with the primer, it wouldn't work, but if it stayed in? Surely it wouldn't be very difficult to make up 10 or so cases like this to try out.......

Y'alls thoughts?

Remember, ,this cost exactly what you paid for it.......

HTH

[jh45gun]

so if you drilled out some rifle cases for 209 shot shell primers what sort of loads can you safely use say velocity wise. I know plinker loads were mentioned but I like to keep my loads in the 1600 to 1800 fps range would that be too much with 209 primers?

[relics6165]

jh45gun:

When using a 209 shotshell primer, I'm not sure you can look at the velocity of the bullet, as much as you need to look at pressure involved. A 209 shotshell primer is designed for what, about 10,000 to 15,000 psi (or so, without lookin' it up)? Your loads would need to be kept in a pressure range compatible with a 209 primer used in a shotshell.

Without knowing exactly what load/cartridge you are referring to, I can't tell you exactly what that would be.............but I bet 1800 fps would be pretty hot for a 209.

HTH

[jh45gun]

OK Any berdan primer cases I would ever use would be for the 7.5x55 swiss For my converted 284 cases and my regular boxer primed 7.55 cases I use 20 grains of 2400 and a 180 grain cast bullet.

[jh45gun]

As far as decapping berdan primed brass Elmer Keith in a book I once saw showed how he did it. He drilled a hole in a block of wood so the case head was about flush with the wood. He then made a pick type thing that he tapped to the side of the primer to pierce it. (Think like a pick like you get in a nut cracker set sharpened. Once the primer was pierced at an angle then put like a small block under the pic for leverage and pry out the primer. He said he did lots of them like that. I suspect maybe a long thin screwdriver might be made to adapt for this.

[TAWILDCATT]

I am in the process of converting 7.35 carcano.the jap and carcano are practical the others require a sleeve.I use the RCBS berdan decaper and then swedge the tit flat thus closing the primer holes.then use a center drill to spot the center and then a .062 drill to make the flash hole.w I need to deepen the hole and ream the diam.lyman has the tool to do that.OF COURSE THE TOOL IS BACK ORDERED.
I have 1000 8 mm lebel and 1000 7.7 jap mg rds to do.and the lebel woun't come out even if you pray.but one of you gave me the desire to do what I had been contemplating cut the top of the primer to use the walls of the primer.
JIM:I had to laught as I read your story.haveing tried to convert I knew what you were going thru.my lathe is a sears/dunlop 1939/50s and I only have a 4 jaw and with a spindle of 1/2 X 20 nothing will fit but I think I found one on a mini lathe but the price oh vay. :coffee::coffee::coffee:[smilie=1:
I needed three cups on this one.

[Buckshot]

This post will refer to .217 (the most common size) berdan primed brass, and full power loads. I am actually thinking of 7.62x51 South African or Portugese brass, with crimped and sealed primers, but what I'm thinking should work for other brass, too.

One of the things I'm seeing (actually reading) is that y'all are all thinking about depriming your brass first, then trying to fill the now too big primer pocket with a sleeve to get back to a .210 large rifle primer. Now, what I'm thinkin' will definitely require a lathe, but here goes......why not use the sides of the old berdan primer as your sleeve?

My thinking goes something like this.......

Take your brass, pop it in the appropriate collet in your lathe, and machine off the face of the primer. Then remove the case from the collet, swage the existing anvil back into the case head, and then drill the new flash hole.

The only potential problems I see with this method might be the thinness of the primer pocket bushing (.217-.210= .007/2=/.0035). .

Anybody that tried this would certainly know when they deprimed the case the first time with the new boxer primer.........if the sleeve popped out with the primer, it wouldn't work, but if it stayed in? Surely it wouldn't be very difficult to make up 10 or so cases like this to try out.......

Y'alls thoughts?

Remember, ,this cost exactly what you paid for it.......

HTH

The idea sounds useable, especially for sealed and crimped primers. The one issue would be spinning the original primer walls out once the base was removed, the Berdan anvil flatened, and the new central flash hole drilled. Turning the original primer walls down may very well spin the old primer in the pocket, as brass is very 'grabby'.

If that happened you might have to then remove the crimp to get the thing out, as once it's spun in the pocket you only have 2 options for a retry. Once would be to try to get some threadlocker down between it and the case. Or you might try re-crimping, or even staking. I'm just thinking of what could, or might happen. If a person had a need it would for sure be worth a try.

"When using a 209 shotshell primer, I'm not sure you can look at the velocity of the bullet, as much as you need to look at pressure involved. A 209 shotshell primer is designed for what, about 10,000 to 15,000 psi (or so, without lookin' it up)? Your loads would need to be kept in a pressure range compatible with a 209 primer used in a shotshell.

Without knowing exactly what load/cartridge you are referring to, I can't tell you exactly what that would be.............but I bet 1800 fps would be pretty hot for a 209."

While shotshell loads DO run at much lower then common rifle pressures, the 209 will hold considerable pressure. When I'd altered a bunch of 8x56R brass I had that in mind and started with very mild loads. As you mentioned, I was a bit past 1800 fps with both the RCBS (205gr) and Lee (210gr) slugs sized .335" before I began to experience the occasional pierced primer.

...............Buckshot

[shotman]

anyone want a 100 berden primers? OK before I get a smart ass they have not been fired

[Casteratingthewheelweight]

Hi folks, regarding the primer pocket being too big for a boxer primer. What about aluminum foil? I have removed the primer and eliminated the post in 7.62x39. Find 7.62x39 right now is very hard. If I took aluminum foil pressed it into the the primer pocket with a RCBS primer pocket uniformer, then inserted/swaged in the boxer primer. Would this work? Would the aluminum withstand the pressures generated by the reloaded cartridge? The primer blast would blow through the thin aluminum by the flash holes. Theoretically this could work if the aluminum can handle the pressures. ideas?

[jdfoxinc]

The primer will back out.

[Strtspdlx]

Anybody have any luck converting steel case?

[abunaitoo]

I've wanted to try and do this.
Have some nice 7.5 Swiss and 8 Lebel.
Question..........
With three flash holes in the case, two small and one big, could it be a problem with to much flame from the primer?????

[17nut]

No!

Go right ahead and shoot them.
If you were going after super max. pressure loads then it might be a thing you had to account for in reducing the load slightly.

[crashguy]

I recently took my turn at the conversion thing too. I used 7.62x39 yugo surplus brass. I wont beleaguer you all with my process.. but suffice to say I used a drill press for the lion's share of the work. Like others I found the LRP stood proud and were loose... my solution was a LPMP and red loctite ...With a generous dose of IMR 3031 a Lee 155g powder coated gas checked boolit I have found the primers stay in place without gas leakage and complete cycling of an sks... and the cases resizes without issues.

[Mauser 98K]

i made a swage tool to swage the primer pocket smaller so that i could use standard LRP. it consisted of anvil that fit inside the case to support the base of the case and a mandrel that fit inside the primer pocket that had a ring that would force metal from around the primer pocket around the mandrel and this allowed the proper retention of the LRP.. you are left with a smaller primer pocket and a swaged ring around the primer pocket.. i used an arbor press to do this to the steel case 7.62x39. only problem was that i found the steel cases vary wildly in their internal capacity and this wreaked havoc with accuracy even with hand loads. should work with the brass cases too and being brass is softer should swage easier.

but if the case has the indentation inside the case where the anvil is then it will let you use a drill bit the size of the standard flash hole and you can drill the anvil out. the indentation should keep the drill bit centered if you take your time. but pay attention and there will be a slight drop in resistance after you go through the anvil. stop there as you will go through the primer cup if you keep going. then take a small punch you can then pop the old primer cup out and then do what you need to do with the primer pocket and getting the primer to stay in place.

[yeahbub]

I'm with Mauser 98K. The following method is what I use to prep the pockets on dimpled eastern bloc cases of both 5.5mm and 6.5mm primers, but for 6.5mm (.254) primers (7.62x54), a bushing must be swaged from something like 1/4" soft copper tubing which can be easier than might be thought. For cases with 5.5mm (.213-.215) primers (all 8/57 I've seen), the following process will work to completion: The Eastern Bloc cases all have that dimple on the inside of the case between the flash holes which marks the center of the anvil. I use a 5/64 "aircraft" length drill bit (5") to reach down inside the case, get centered on the dimple and drill until it starts to grab and spin the case in my hand. At this point, the tapered anvil is drilled nearly through and very thin and the case can be deprimed with a conventional decapping pin which breaks off the tip of the anvil and punches out the berdan cup. A carbide primer pocket uniformer (Lyman, I think) is chucked up in the hand drill and used to remove the remainder of the anvil and cut the pocket to the correct depth. By the way, the eastern dimpled cases fortunately have pocket depths of approximately .120, handily allowing depth uniforming to .125 for boxer primers. Some foreign cases have pockets considerably deeper (see below). Now we have a clean pocket that's .213-.215 dia. or so which must be reduced to properly fit a .210 primer. This can easily be done by clamping a long 5/16 punch (Harbor Freight) in the vise with the end of the handle resting on the vise screw housing for support and the punch sticking straight up out of the jaws. The case is inverted and dropped onto the punch and a fat center punch (too big to slip into the pocket and ground to a shallow 30-45 degrees) is centered on the primer pocket and struck to upset the brass around the pocket into the pocket to reduce its diameter to less than .210. It doesn't take much - a good crack with a 4 oz. ball peen hammer will do. Pockets are then swaged to uniform diameter with a primer pocket swage tool (mine is RCBS) just like swaging out primer crimps and they are now ready to be primed. I've done this conversion with both brass and steel cases, using them at full power and have gotten good service from both. Having three flash holes doesn't seem to have any noticeable affect on pressures or accuracy. Most of my shooting is done with .311-.312 cast boolits paper patched with three wraps of drafting vellum, bringing them to a .325-.326 diameter, perfect for the 8mm. A PP'd 175gr 311041 cast of WW over 48gr of Rel 15 speaks with some authority and shows promising accuracy, but could probably use some tweaking, which is yet another thing on the overloaded to-do list. Sometime before Fall, hopefully.

Two things about Turkish, Egyptian and other cases from non-eastern-bloc sources: The Berdan priming system does not rely on uniform pocket depth for proper function, rather the relationship between the anvil height and the priming pellet-and-cup thickness, so the pocket depth can often be deeper than .125. Some I've attempted to convert (Turkish) resulted in seated primers being .020 below the case head and unreachable by the firing pin, thus needing a disk of material to be pressed in place to make the pocket workable with boxer primers. Nice cases, but another step I'm not willing to do unless the cases are something exotic. Also, these generally do not have the dimple between the flash holes, so they must be converted by another process - hydraulic or mechanical depriming, center drilling with a flash hole drill guide which fits into the pocket for centering purposes, etc. (A 1"-1.25" 1/4-20 set screw with a friction nut set .125 back from the end with the threads spin-filed to .210 diameter x .125 long and bored through for the 5/64 flash hole drill makes a dandy drill guide. Insert into primer pocket over the tip of the anvil with the nut against the headstamp and you're ready to drill the flash hole.) British Radway Green 7.62x51 cases are high quality and have good pocket depth, so they can be converted by this method, but boxer 7.62x51 is ubiquitous and too easy to get. I haven't gone there beyond proof of concept experimentation.

[paul edward]

To remove berdan primers I use an old lachmiller Berdan de-prime tool - now sold by rcbs -- If the berdan is smaller than large rifle primer -- 7.35 carcano -- I mash the berdan tit, which also closes the two flash holes, then redrill for .209 and a new flash hole --

Just tried that on some SMI 7.35 cases. Mashing the Berdan anvil is a bit of a challenge. How did you do this? Also, How do I remove the step in the neck of this 1939 vintage brass?

Just got a set of Lee dies and a batch of the Hornady bullets. Brass, however, seems to be scarce. Got this rifle in 1963 and am just now fixing to load for it. Original ammo seems to be more difficult to find today than it was back in the sixties.

[Larry Gibson]

If you don't have a mill or a lathe you might try this simpler but very effective method;

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?143958-Converting-Berdan-primer-pockets-to-Boxer