Evaluate differences among RCBS "O" frame presses

[Naphtali]

Among the many types of single stage RCBS "O" frame presses -- let's exclude 50 BMG presses -- what are the differences? And, more importantly, which differences are significant in terms of ease of use, durability, or precision?

[mikenbarb]

I would say their all about the same O frame design but the leverage and ram diameters are different. The older Rockchucker is on the top of my list with strength and a rigid frame but I have seen way too many newer RCII's bent up or twisted. I use some other brands that I prefer over RCBS but the old style RC is a good one to buy and theirs one bolted on my bench at all times. Its accuracy is as good as the user and die set being used in it.

[scrapcan]

You need to to talk to PRess man as he has done a very good write up on the older rcbs presses and he can probably give you more info than you want. Including the newer presses.

[Pressman]

I caught the thread but will be out of town from tomorrow through Saturday, with no 'puter.
I can take phone calls. 515-402-1901 cell. Or email me at: herters@netins.net
Ken

[Gary51]

The A2 was the strongest and the best press RCBS ever made which could handle every reloading operation you threw at it and production ceased due to manufacturing cost almost exceeding retail price. The A2 was replaced by the Rockchucker. IMHO the older Chuckers are superior quality to what RCBS now sells and could handle most reloading jobs. The Junior was introduced in the late 60's and was a good simple design medium duty press and is no longer made. The Juniors replacements are adequate presses but nothing great. On newer RCBS products look for the Made In China marking and if you can find a good older RCBS O Frame press, buy it as it might appreciate like primers.

[1hole]

They work good, last a long time. But, on average they are no better than others of their type.

I'd swap my RC for my buddies Lee Classic Cast in a heart beat. He won't.

[Rebel Dave]

Hello

An ole guy, newby here. I have an RCBS Rock Chucker II, that I am thinking of selling, but I can't make up my mind, if i want to ,or not. It's in almost new shape. I bought it in the 70s. I was thinking of getting one of the new Lee press' with the quick change die set up. I have one of the Lee classic cast press', and it does the job good. The differance between the Lee Classic, and the Rock Chucker is the heighth of the opening. The Lee is bigger. They both do an excellent job of reloading. Any one have/use one of the new Lee quick change press',???.

Rebel Dave

[Naphtali]

Among my rules of commerce are the following:

1. I will not buy from Red China unless I have no alternative and require the product. They are not our friends. And I chastise them and their importers by withholding my dollars.

2. I will not buy from any country, or buy any product, where working conditions are such that Western workers would consider those conditions unacceptable. This does not imply equal pay rates. It implies reasonable conditions for the area.
***
Are RCBS products that have been made in Red China marked on the product, or only marked on its container?

[Rebel Dave]

Naphtali
Can't answer on the later model RCBS Press', mine is an older U.S.A. made press.

I am pretty sure all Lee press' are madin U.S.A. At least that is what they'er site says.

Rebel Dave

[Char-Gar]

The RCBS A2 was the last of the cast steel presses. Everything produced now by RCBS is iron won't hold a candle to the A2 for strengh, smoothness and longevity. A good A2 will cost $200 - $250 on the used market when they can be found and worth every penny.

[Naphtali]

The A2 was the strongest and the best press RCBS ever made which could handle every reloading operation you threw at it and production ceased due to manufacturing cost almost exceeding retail price. The A2 was replaced by the Rockchucker. IMHO the older Chuckers are superior quality to what RCBS now sells and could handle most reloading jobs. The Junior was introduced in the late 60's and was a good simple design medium duty press and is no longer made. The Juniors replacements are adequate presses but nothing great. On newer RCBS products look for the Made In China marking and if you can find a good older RCBS O Frame press, buy it as it might appreciate like primers.

***


Hello

An ole guy, newby here. I have an RCBS Rock Chucker II, that I am thinking of selling, but I can't make up my mind, if i want to ,or not. It's in almost new shape. I bought it in the 70s. I was thinking of getting one of the new Lee press' with the quick change die set up. I have one of the Lee classic cast press', and it does the job good. The differance between the Lee Classic, and the Rock Chucker is the heighth of the opening. The Lee is bigger. They both do an excellent job of reloading. Any one have/use one of the new Lee quick change press',???.

Rebel Dave
I found a superior thread on Antique Reloading Press forum that described in great detail most of what I wanted to know about RCBS "O" frame presses. This thread had an incredible number of photographs. What it did not clarify for me, though, are the differences between the Rock Chucker Supreme, Rock Chucker, and Rock Chucker II.
***
Rebel Dave: If you still have interest in selling/trading, please E-mail or PM me.

[Pressman]

Not all RCBS A2 presses are cast steel. Some are cast iron as is the A3.
With the introducrtion of the Rockchucker RCBS made some changes to the A2. The die bushing was eliminated and the frame opening changed. It is these versions that are cast iron.
Ken

[Naphtali]

Not all RCBS A2 presses are cast steel. Some are cast iron as is the A3.
With the introducrtion of the Rockchucker RCBS made some changes to the A2. The die bushing was eliminated and the frame opening changed. It is these versions that are cast iron.
KenKen:

Are you the person who produced such extensive information to which I referred on the antiques reloading tools forum?

[tonyb]

I have a RS with a 77 stamped at the die hole. Is this the date it was made? It's like new.

[Pressman]

Naphtali, I am the ARTCA newsletter editor and archive manager. Along with that I have an extensive reloading tool collection, rapidly approaching 1000 items. I have been researching the history of various tool makers and documenting it for a future book.
Ken

[Naphtali]

Naphtali, I am the ARTCA newsletter editor and archive manager. Along with that I have an extensive reloading tool collection, rapidly approaching 1000 items. I have been researching the history of various tool makers and documenting it for a future book.
KenAHA!

What I think I detect that differentiates Rock Chucker Supreme from other Rock Chuckers are the following: made in Red China from the get-go; ambidextrous toggle block; slightly elongated "O" frame. Are there other differences, and is any significant in your opinion?

Regarding "the other Rock Chuckers," other than nomenclature what are significant differences?

When all told, excluding the deal breaker of being made in Red China, are all Rock Chuckers and Supremes essentially identical in function?

[Pressman]

Begginning with the Model A all RCBS presses that use the toggle link design are identical in function. Now, there are differences in the shape of the toggle block that can have a major effect on applied leverage. This is most notable on the early, pre-A presses and the Reloader Special-5. The same applies to the compitition.
The china cast frames are just that, cast in china and machined here. (I think). A quick call to RCBS will clear that up.
My preference is for the 1967-77 pea green presses, but then I like old things.
Ken

[Naphtali]

Begginning with the Model A all RCBS presses that use the toggle link design are identical in function. Now, there are differences in the shape of the toggle block that can have a major effect on applied leverage. . . . KenMay I accurately infer that Rock Chucker and Rock Chucker II use the same [replacement] parts?

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

The Supreme is a piece of crap compared to the other Rock Chuckers. I saw a thread on another forum about slop in the ram. I went and checked mine. With the ram up I could move it and I know the one I just gave my son a RCII was solid. I called RCBS and inquired and they said they (any Rock Chucker) has ZERO tolerence in the ram for side to side movement. .They told me I could send it in and they would replace the whole setup or they could send a new ram. They said they were sure the ram would fix the problem so I told them that was fine. That was 2 weeks ago and no ram! I took it back Friday evening and swapped it out for a new one. It is rock solid. I didnt know that it was chinese crap or I wouldnt have bought it. Its still in the box. I may return it and buy a Forester.

[Naphtali]

The Supreme is a piece of crap compared to the other Rock Chuckers. I saw a thread on another forum about slop in the ram. I went and checked mine. With the ram up I could move it and I know the one I just gave my son a RCII was solid. I called RCBS and inquired and they said they (any Rock Chucker) has ZERO tolerence in the ram for side to side movement. .They told me I could send it in and they would replace the whole setup or they could send a new ram. They said they were sure the ram would fix the problem so I told them that was fine. That was 2 weeks ago and no ram! I took it back Friday evening and swapped it out for a new one. It is rock solid. I didnt know that it was chinese crap or I wouldnt have bought it. Its still in the box. I may return it and buy a Forester.As I parced Ken's reply about Rock Chucker Supremes, he wrote that the casting ONLY was fabricated in Red China, that all machine work to render casting to "O" frame occurred at RCBS in USA. Therefore, if the Supreme's quality control is unacceptable, this is an RCBS in-house problem to solve. My problem with Red Chinese goods is a sociopolitical one. That government is not our friend. And working conditions there are unacceptable, resulting in unfairly low labor costs. I find it difficult to believe that the cost difference between an American casting and Red Chinese casting, including shipping cost, is more than a couple of dollars. Were it $15.00 difference, I would pay it for American fabrication. RCBS products are not really competing with bargain basement goods, and their warranty is such that shoddy initial quality goods will be more expensive for them than high-quality. So whomever made their production decision decided poorly.

[Char-Gar]

Pressman -- Thanks for that piece of information. My A2 has the bushing and is from the 50's. I am very happy with it. I will swing a wide loop around any A2s without the bushing. I will write that down, if I can remember where I put the book I write things down in so I won't forget.

[Naphtali]

Let no one write I do not listen to your collective council. I bought a Lee cast iron "O" frame press despite being leery about the durability of its linkage. I'm confident the frame will remain intact after a nuclear war. We'll see how well linkage does.
***
Question: Does Hornady's Lock 'N' Load conversion kit fit this Lee press?
***
My shooting partner unveiled two more presses I didn't know he had. His reloading room is larger than my home. One is a Hornady 5-station progressive Lock 'N' Load. The other is a similarly designed Hornady shotshell progressive. Bob informs me that the metallic progressive has a cast iron "O" frame rather than the cast aluminum of Hornady's single-stage Lock 'N' Load press. He also claims the progressive weight nearly 45 pounds. Is this an exaggeration? I was impressed with its massiveness and obvious quality. His press' serial number was in the 60s, so it must be one of the first month's production.

[quasi]

Naphtali, are You sure that press was a Hornady? RCBS makes the only cast iron framed progressive that I am aware of, it is called an RCBS 2000.

[Naphtali]

Naphtali, are You sure that press was a Hornady? RCBS makes the only cast iron framed progressive that I am aware of, it is called an RCBS 2000.I am certain both presses are Hornady. I am uncertain, despite Bob's claim, that the 5-station progressive has a cast iron "O" frame. That's among things I'm trying to confirm. What I can tell you is the frame, the entire press, is massive. It is much beefier than his Redding Big Boss IIs and his Rock Chucker (not Supreme).

[softpoint]

I have 2 of the old RCBS 4X4 progressives, They are cast iron I also have three RCBS "o" frame presses mounted in my reloading room that have the letters RCBS on one side of the frame and on the other side -RC- They all have die bushings. Are they original Rockchuckers? I've had all three a long time.:drinks:

[BHLUA]

Well Stated ..........well stated indeed.........



As I parced Ken's reply about Rock Chucker Supremes, he wrote that the casting ONLY was fabricated in Red China, that all machine work to render casting to "O" frame occurred at RCBS in USA. Therefore, if the Supreme's quality control is unacceptable, this is an RCBS in-house problem to solve. My problem with Red Chinese goods is a sociopolitical one. That government is not our friend. And working conditions there are unacceptable, resulting in unfairly low labor costs. I find it difficult to believe that the cost difference between an American casting and Red Chinese casting, including shipping cost, is more than a couple of dollars. Were it $15.00 difference, I would pay it for American fabrication. RCBS products are not really competing with bargain basement goods, and their warranty is such that shoddy initial quality goods will be more expensive for them than high-quality. So whomever made their production decision decided poorly.

[Naphtali]

Well Stated ..........well stated indeed.........Many thanks for your kind remarks.

[Naphtali]

I am certain both presses are Hornady. I am uncertain, despite Bob's claim, that the 5-station progressive has a cast iron "O" frame. That's among things I'm trying to confirm. What I can tell you is the frame, the entire press, is massive. It is much beefier than his Redding Big Boss IIs and his Rock Chucker (not Supreme).I have just confirmed the progressive Hornady's frame is aluminum. I must admit its massiveness causes me to reevaluate aluminum as frame basis metal.

Having written that, and having worked with my Lee cast iron "O" frame press, I was skeptical of the press' quality for its low price. I was, I AM, astounded by the high quality of the press. My shooting partner has two Redding Big Boss II "O" frame presses. We found essentially no difference in quality, tolerances, or anything else associated with how well and how long the press will do its job. Those slight differences, however, were all favoring the Lee. Completely unexpected. I am pleased as punch and will be buying at least one more within the calendar year.

While I don't believe Lee's press will interfere significantly with Redding's sales, because of perceived quality differences between the brand names, RCBS should be very afraid for its market share. Not only is Lee's cast iron press superior by every qualitative measure, RCBS's press being fabricated in Red China puts RCBS in a precarious position.