Rebuilding a Plumbers Furnace

[Jon]

i spent yesterday attempting to rebuild an old Plumbers Furnace that I picked up at a yard sale a couple years ago.
Everything was pretty gunked up and rusted, but I was able to take it mostly apart and get things cleaned up. I'm still having trouble with the pump assembly. The leather washer was gone, and making a new one isn't as trivial as I thought it would be.

Here's before and after. Sorry for the grainy pics.

[Bret4207]

Go to a good plumbing supply house and see if they can't help you. Baring that, find a cobbler or saddle maker and get some leather from him. I've made them before using nothing more than a sanding disc and patience, so I'm sure most anyone can do it.

[Pat I.]

The way I fixed the one I found in the garbage was to use a tire valve stem. Yours looks about the same as mine and the stems are a perfect fit in the pump tube. Just took the pump assembly apart and drilled the cap so the valve fits through. I've been using it for years and only replaced the stem once. A couple of blasts with a bicycle pump and it's up and running. If you get it working you'll love it and it sounds like a jet engine.

Mine had a pretty nice pot on it when I found it but I really like the shield on yours.

[Jon]

Is there anything cheaper than the $8/gal that they are getting for coleman fuel these days?

Thanks.

[mikenbarb]

Wal-Mart has the replacement pump kits for 7 bucks in the camping section. And you can use regular unleaded gasoline in it instead of Coleman fuel.

[Pat I.]

Never tried regular gas in mine, I think it'd make me a little nervous. I don't know if the replacement parts for a camping lantern would work but it seems unlikely. Could be wrong though because I never checked.

[Gerry N.]

Go here: www.spiritburner.com prod around and ask questions. If anyone can help, those guys can.


Personally, I'd salvage the pot and ladle, then adapt them to a turkey fryer burner using propane. Plumber's furnaces sound like a jet engines and burn fuel at comparable rates. Propane is superior in all aspects in this application.


Gerry N.

[Jon]

Wal-Mart has the replacement pump kits for 7 bucks in the camping section. And you can use regular unleaded gasoline in it instead of Coleman fuel.

I picked up a replacement pump kit at wally world, and it's too big. I can always use it for one of my coleman stoves so it wasn't too big of a deal to have an extra.

It was raining to beat the band last night, but I picked up some washers at home depot that might seal up the replacement leather that I made.

[Bret4207]

All Coleman fuel is is unleaded gas minus the gasoline additives and with maybe a few lantern fuel additives added. That's all I've ever burned in mine.

I doubt the Coleman lantern repair kits would work. The tire valve definitely would.

[Willbird]

Coleman fuel is "white gas" as I recall.

Bill

[Storydude]

Never tried regular gas in mine, I think it'd make me a little nervous. I don't know if the replacement parts for a camping lantern would work but it seems unlikely. Could be wrong though because I never checked.

Naptha(Main Ing. in coleman fuel) has a MUCH lower Octane than Gasoline. Meaning it's detonation point is much less than Gasoline. Gasoline is actually SAFER to use in a Coleman, or pressure-burner than Coleman fuel.

I run ONLY Gasoline in all my Coleman items...Except my Tent heater. Even if they do not say "Dual Fuel" on them.

I've found I get a little more heat from Gasoline than Coleman fuel too.

YMMV, This is explosive liquids, they tend to explode, killing your dog and making you wet yourself. Keep your head about you.

[Willbird]

The older stuff like that made to use gasoline under pressure gives me the willies, I have been on fire, and burned first and second degree over 100 sq inches. I do not care to repeat that experience.

Life was cheaper back when a lot of this stuff was made, and a plumber that got burned to death and burned down the house he was working on was not nearly as news worthy then as it is today.

I'll gladly pay $14 to have an LP tank filled to have a safer source of BTU's ;-).

I agree that white gas has a lower octane, but that is a complex issue that does not for sure mean it is a less safe fuel to work with, what we buy as "gasoline" today is in fact "Internal combustion engine fuel" and it has all kinds of additives that are not healthy to work with.

Bill

[Echo]

That old plumber's pot was MADE to use white (unleaded) gas. Flounder lanterns, Coleman stoves, blow torches, &cetera, were made to use white gas. Leaded gas would clog up the generator, or jet, or whatever, so we NEVER used regular gas in our lights when wandering the flats of Galveston bay looking for flatfish...

[mikenbarb]

All I have ever used in all my coleman fuel things is unleaded gasoline and its alot cheaper. Its perfectly safe and anyone at a good camping store will tell you that because gasoline has been safely used in them since they were made. White Coleman gas is just more refined and clear and if you smell it its the same gasoline smell.

[Jon]

Update.

So I think I have the pump working and I can build up some pressure, but I'm fairly convinced that the generator tube is mostly clogged. There's a piece of cable in there, and I need some way to clean out the gunk and carbon in there. If the weather is decent tomorrow I'll pull the generator tube off again and see how well the fuel squirts out on the other side of the valve.
Just for giggles I fired it up again, but it barely stays running, and the wind blows it out easily.

[Flash]

Never tried regular gas in mine, I think it'd make me a little nervous.
It used to be called "White" gas when I was a kid and Crown was the only station that sold it. We used in in our Coleman stoves and lanterns for years before propane units were available.

[Storydude]

Update.

So I think I have the pump working and I can build up some pressure, but I'm fairly convinced that the generator tube is mostly clogged. There's a piece of cable in there, and I need some way to clean out the gunk and carbon in there. If the weather is decent tomorrow I'll pull the generator tube off again and see how well the fuel squirts out on the other side of the valve.
Just for giggles I fired it up again, but it barely stays running, and the wind blows it out easily.

Get it as open as you can, and spray down well with Carb cleaner.

[Bret4207]

It was called "white gas" back in the day because regular was golden or yellowish. TOdays unleaded IS white gas.

[Bret4207]

Update.

So I think I have the pump working and I can build up some pressure, but I'm fairly convinced that the generator tube is mostly clogged. There's a piece of cable in there, and I need some way to clean out the gunk and carbon in there. If the weather is decent tomorrow I'll pull the generator tube off again and see how well the fuel squirts out on the other side of the valve.
Just for giggles I fired it up again, but it barely stays running, and the wind blows it out easily.

Had the same problem. Take the nozzle off. It's a hollow tube with a flat on the end and a little teeny hole you may not be able to really see that vents the gas. Clean it up good inside with solvent and try and find the outlet and blow it out with compressed air.

On the generator tube- solvent and air pressure. It may take a while to get it clean. I tried pulling mine out and it broke, so I cleaned it up as best I could and got as much rust as I could out with solvent and air pressure. Once she's flowing good it should develop a jet like roar when running full blast.

I may try running mixed gas/oil in mine someday to see if it helps with the rust.

[3006guns]

I've rebuilt/restored a number of Coleman lanterns and stoves over the years. One thing I discovered very quickly is that gunked up generators and other parts respond well to an overnight soaking in Berryman's cleaner (any auto supply house), followed by a blast from an air compressor. Repeat if really clogged.

Caution: if the inside of the fount (tank) shows any rust......be very wary. I've had otherwise nice looking founts suddenly spring a pinhole leak. Not good if the device is in operation. Most leaks are down near the base where the bottom is crimped. To test, fill with kerosene or deisel and pump up to full pressure then observe for at least two hours. Any oil on the outside means a leak. Do NOT try to seal the fount with gas tank sealer. Sounds good, but can easily (and permanently) clog the check valve at the bottom of the pump tube. Use it for a display item instead.

The Coleman fuel controversy has been going on for years and it IS a very pure fuel for the appliances.......BUT.........as already mentioned, good 'ol white gas was what they were designed to use. As a kid camping with my folks back in the fifties, I never even saw a can of "special" fuel. My dad would stop at the handiest Chevron station and ask for a gallon of white gas, pumped from one of the lubester tanks in the service bay, usually through a dirty funnel to boot. Worked fine.

Concerned that pump gas might clog things? Just add a little (1/2 teaspoon) of injector cleaner to the lantern fount......woila........cheap camp fuel.

Regarding your pump leather.....use THIN soft leather from the tongue of an old shoe or some suede from a chamois cloth. Punch a hole for the screw, then soak in warm water. Form it into a cup shape and let dry. Trim any edges to suit, then add a few drops of household (3 in 1) oil and install. Complete instructions are available on the internet. Just Google "repairing Coleman".

Note: About the check valve in the bottom of the pump tube.....this is to prevent the pressure from coming back out of the fount through the pump. To test, install your shiney new pump leather and pump 'er up. If the pump rod wants to rise by itself the check valve is leaking and they are a bugger to remove. One possibility is to fill the pump tube with Berryman's and soak, followed by a kerosene rinse. slosh and dump.If the leak is caused by plain old crud it may start working again. The tiny amount of kerosene is harmless and will be thinned by the first gas fill up.

On edit: Forgot to mention, the bicycle valve will work also but remember that these appliances only need a couple of pounds of pressure AT THE MOST to function. Don't try to push 40 lbs. of air in the poor thing. An old fashioned tire pump would work just fine.

[Bret4207]

Berrymans B-12 cleaner is available at Walmart. I like it better than SeaFoam.

[Pat I.]

Here's my fix for the furnace.

[beanflip]

Ok..... Pat tell us how you did the fix on your furnace.

[Pat I.]

Just like I said on the first page.

"The way I fixed the one I found in the garbage was to use a tire valve stem. Yours looks about the same as mine and the stems are a perfect fit in the pump tube. Just took the pump assembly apart and drilled the cap so the valve fits through."

[Bret4207]

The only thing I can think of to add is that there are all metal tire valves available at truck supply houses. If I was going to be doing a lot of smelting I might either get a metal valve or shield the rubber one from the heat. Even aluminum foil would work.

[Pat I.]

Brett that'd probably be a good idea but I've melted a couple thousand pounds of WW over the years the way it is without any mishaps. There's always a first time though and the aluminum foil sounds like a good idea.

[Jon]

Thanks for the pic Pat 1. I'm soaking the generator tube in Berrymans tonight. I don't seem to be able to get any significant amount of liquid through the generator at this point. I can get some coleman fuel though if I pump it up enough, but it's not enough to let it run very well.

I get a good amount of fuel to the other side of the valve though. So the tank side is working ok.

Is there any good way to force cleaner through?

[Bret4207]

Let it soak for as long as you can stand. Then apply some air pressure, just a few pounds should so it. I, of course, ran the nozzle at the full 150 lbs PSI of my commercial compressor and that wasn't smart. I'd just keep working it and sooner or later it'll either flow or you'll get to the point you can see it's a lost cause. At that point there are other options.

[TAWILDCATT]

I am not sure but AMACO used to be the gas that was advertised as white gas.I stopped using gasoline when propane came out.I would get a turkey burner,no gasoline to worry about.:coffee:[smilie=1:
I use a plumbers furnace but it is newer than that and propane.[smilie=1:

[Jon]

Let it soak for as long as you can stand. Then apply some air pressure, just a few pounds should so it. I, of course, ran the nozzle at the full 150 lbs PSI of my commercial compressor and that wasn't smart. I'd just keep working it and sooner or later it'll either flow or you'll get to the point you can see it's a lost cause. At that point there are other options.

I was able to take the burner apart a little more, and soak it in some Berrymans B-12. I thought I had most of the crud out, and have a pretty good stream coming out the bottom end. Unfortunately, the burner doesn't really work any better though. So apart it came again to soak some more.

How much fuel do these things use? I had a pretty decent stream of fuel coming out and it still wasn't enough to keep this thing running very well.

There's a bucket of range lead waiting for this thing to get going. [smilie=1:

[7of7]

How much fuel do these things use? I had a pretty decent stream of fuel coming out and it still wasn't enough to keep this thing running very well.

[smilie=1:

Keep in mind, that the coil has to get hot for them to function correctly. It also helps to set a pot on it.. The flame ends up in the coil tube...

I should probably pull my coil tube apart, and soak them too,... it tends to quit due to clogging of the nozzle...

[Bret4207]

They go through the gas pretty quickly. You might get 30-45 minutes run time. That coil has to get really hot for it to work right. If the stream is enough that when you open the valve the gas squirts up at least 3/4 the height of the coil or so it should be good. The heat from the flame builds additional pressure in the tank. You can preheat the coil too.

[Jon]

They go through the gas pretty quickly. You might get 30-45 minutes run time. That coil has to get really hot for it to work right. If the stream is enough that when you open the valve the gas squirts up at least 3/4 the height of the coil or so it should be good. The heat from the flame builds additional pressure in the tank. You can preheat the coil too.

It's not squirting that vigorously yet. It dribbles out of the hole reasonably well now which is quite a bit more than it was doing. Hopefully the overnight soaking last night with everything apart will clear the crud out some more. Mapp gas in the torch really helped in getting the fittings apart yesterday.

I read somewhere about letting it dry out, and then soaking it in water, and hitting it with a torch to "steam clean" it. Does that actually help with getting the carbon out?

I can't wait to get this thing going, but I think I'll try to talk the wife into letting me shell out for a turkey fryer burner as well. At $8 a gallon for coleman fuel, it's probably going to be more expensive to run. With all the trouble to clean this thing, I'm not sure I want to run gasoline in it either. :coffee:

[Jon]

It looks like the check valve at the bottom of the pump is leaking. I'm not sure what the hard rubbery stuff is on the check valve, but it looks cracked after taking a better look at the picture.

Any idea what that stuff is, and if it can be replaced? The brass seat at the bottom of the housing looks like it's still in good shape.

The leather has also been replaced.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

I don't know where you'd get the check valve parts. I'm thinking you'll have to make something work. The hard rubbery stuff could be gummed gasoline, a combination of that and whatever oxides were floating around in there or scale from hard water if any water got in it. Soak that leather in oil and it should become more pliable.

On the tube- it's probably not carbon, but rust that is the culprit. Steaming can;t hurt at this point.

As far as pump gas v Coleman fuel- modern pump gas has to work through injector systems, as far more precision application than this 1900's technology. As long as your container is clean and your funnel is clean you should have no problem. Add some injector cleaner and you're good to go.

Use that MAPP gas torch to get that tube really hot then turn the gas on, keeping your face well back from the furnace. The gas may well vaporize enough to light well and the heat may help it clean it self.