Shooting curtailed due to primer shortage

[windrider919]

I have had to quit shooting because no one in my region has primers for sale, not Carters Country, nor Bailey's House of Guns / Shooting range nor Bass Pro. I did not 'panic' and buy in fear of the Obama election and since I usually buy to replace what I shot I have run out. Had a good day at the range shooting and then went inside the store to buy a box of primers and they were out. They said they had called all over trying to get more but no luck. Several of the other discussions here on Cast Boolets have been talking about it and quite a few members are bragging that they bought many K of primers and will not run out for years. Which leaves me who shoot about 100 a month with none. A guy at Carters which is a huge store in Houston said a couple guys bought all they had. He told me that they bought over 50 K of primers in every size. Now thats hording!!!!!!! So much for consideration of your fellow shooter. I used to shoot 'black gun' a lot and I could see having between 2K and 5K but the jerks bragging about 25K could not shoot that many in a war. They fear a collapse of society or banning by the liberals but they hurt the rest of us by being pigs. Like I said, in either case they have aquired more than any one person could reasonably use. It is a free country however. And as devils advocate: in a free market the law of supply and demand can mean temporary shortages. I just hope that the Liberals don't do anything too stupid and that the manufactures can replace the stock as soon as possible. Anyone agree? Disagree/

[Lead pot]

When we had the last primer shortage a few years ago I learned a lesson.
When the dealers got a few in the price doubled because of the shortage.
When primers started to appear again on the shelves of the suppliers and were plentiful again I stocked up with five sleeves (25, 000) and I never let that number fall, I just rotated the stock because I knew it would happen again some day.
Well It did happen again and my forsite has paid off.
I don't call it hording I call it looking ahead.
Now when there in short supply it's kinda like your favorite hound dog having a litter of 9 pups and she only has 8 dinner plates one will go hungry if he ain't on the ball.

[rhead]

Lead pot: Foresight is what is called hoarding by those who have no foresight. They do not understand the term. They see the world the way it is right now and cannot imagine any change. If something changes that alters their life the ones that are prepared must be "hoarding" because there is no such thing as "foresight". Some of them are just young and will learn from their experience. others will not.

The charities of the world are supported by those who have the foresight to accumulate a surpluss. Not by those who never consider the next step until movement is past due and not by those who whine about some elses "Karma ". If I get worried about my Karma I will discuss it with a Hindu. They call often enough.

[Dennis Eugene]

Anyone agree? Disagree/
but the jerks bragging about 25K they hurt the rest of us by being pigs I disagree with the name calling. In fact your whole post smacks of "spreading the wealth around". Dennis

[Shiloh]

Is it hoarding if we stocked some in when they were available and plentiful,
not to mention reasonably priced??

Shiloh

[jhrosier]

Windrider,
It is time to accept the situation and deal with it.
If all you need is 100 primers per month then someone in your area will probably be able to help you out. You might have to ask politely and pay a premium, but you will get what you need to tide you over.

Would it be the end of the world if you had to pay $100 for a thousand primers on gunbroker?

Put a WTB/WTT on the bulletin board at your local range and see what happens.
Boolits and brass are just as hard to find as primers in many places. You might be able to arrange a swap with one of your shooting buddies. Yeah, I know that it is technically illegal to barter boolits that you make yourself(without a federal license), so swap some that someone else made.

Turn your anger into action. We are all pulling for you, really!

BTW, buy 4K primers and put them away in an ammo can and forget about them after this foolishness passes.[smilie=1:

Jack

[RMulhern]

DAs don't 'hoard'!!

They just bitch....and do without!!

Must be 'part-time shooters'!!

[imashooter2]

25K of primers isn't that many at all.

High Power, USPSA, Bullseye, ICORE, Bianchi... All of those have dedicated enthusiasts that will shoot more than that in a single year. Heck, there are plenty of plinkers that will shoot that much.

I'm saddened to hear you are in a bind, but those that shoot plenty saw the writing on the wall and took care of business.

[Apache]

Ummmmm.......If you couldn't see this coming (I prefer to call it "stocking up" not hoarding) you deserve what you got. This has been going on for at least 8 or 9 months!!!

Shoulda got urs when the getting was good..........next time (if there is a next time) maybe you'll be a "jerk" or a "pig" like some of us.

signed:

hoarding "jerk" and "pig"

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Sorry fella if your looking for Sympthy here its not to be found, In 91 I saw this coming and began to buy primmers, I carry around 40-60K on hand at any time, and Just recently came on to a deal of 7000 old white Box WLR's That I use for my Long Range Loads boosting my Hoard as you call it to a touch over 25K again.

BTW just asking did you vote for OBAMA?

The Lunger

[docone31]

Somewhere on this forum is a link on rebuilding spend primers. Anyone who is really out can do a search for it.
My wife constantly would question me on "don't you have enough?". Well, today, she is not like that. When we go to the range, they have a limit on 2 sleeves of primers per person per day. We get four. Each time. Now she does not talk like that. She found she loves shooting as much as I do and took for granted "things" will always be there.
In the '80s, I had built a concrete outbuilding so I could store powder, primers, bullets, I did not cast back then. My first divorce took care of that. My second divorce took care of my Hawken, powder, caps, Ruger #1, powder, primers, etc. My third divorce took care of what little I had accumulated, my fourth divorce left me homeless in Alaska, My fifth divorce took my sharps, powder, everything.
I have always looked at it as what can I carry, what do I need.
Now, my wife and myself, are getting into caplocks. She has never fired one before. We already have powder, caps, lead, molds. We are getting acutremonts, powder gear, capping gear. Someday, I might even bring her to a rendevous!
I have a "friend". A shooter, Liberal, hater of the NRA. I keep shakeing my head at him. I taught him to reload. I fixed his smithing mistakes. Big ones at that! My wife, myself, and him, we built Palma Rifles to just shoot paper at our range which he will not join. Well, he cannot get primers, has no powder, a few pulled bullets. He wants some of mine! No.
I warned him.
I wouldn't want to be anywhere with him outside of a metropolitan environment anyway.
Cabelas gets primers. I get sleeves from them from time to time. Midway says they are coming in, then refunds our money 6 weeks later. I just got enough brass to last a while. Since I shoot paper, I get real mileage from my brass!
I am not sure what is really going on. We shoot rimfire at the range now mostly. I get a brick every time we go. Members only.
This week, my wife and myself are going to make some grey smoke! I would have never gotten her to handle a caplock in other circumstances.
How much we took for granted!
She likes the smell of melted beeswax now also.

[mag44uk]

Plenty of primers here in the UK!
Tony

[Baron von Trollwhack]

windrider919,

It would be best to make your pitch for a primer bailout to some of your democrat friends living in your area, who, while supporting hopey changey, and with blissful thoughts, or no questions at all of old time gun rights being sustained as a new wave of progress led by the "we ain't after your guns socialists", lately see the light of the darkness descending upon THEIR gun freedoms, AND HAVE BEGUN TO HOARD, thus greatly exacerbating the shortages. Some of brak's own supporters are very itchy now. I suspect even berkey left wingers are hiding primers underneath their gro-lights.

Most of us observers of politicians, historians, pioneers, lovers of freedom, and just plain nature , noticed long ago that most skunks smell and most politicians lie, particularly so with the crooked, corrupt, paid for play, to hell with America, get mine now ones we got and have had for a while.

I for one grew up with an understanding of ancient thoughts by such greats as Aesop, of "ants and the grasshopper" fame, and can do no more than offer the above advice or make some local swaps with my ant buddies.

BvT

[Poygan]

Being a frugal sort of person, I stock up when I run into a good deal. Maybe ten years ago, Gander Mtn. was having a great sale on primers...maybe under $10.00 per thousand. I think I bought over ten thousand at that time. To put it in context, I reload around 2,000 rounds per year. About a year ago, they were selling small pistol mag primers for $1.15 per hundred and I bought 11,000. Do I consider this hoarding? No. I think it is more prudent than buying small quantities on an "as needed" basis.

[jh45gun]

"I did not 'panic' and buy in fear of the Obama election and since I usually buy to replace w I did not 'panic' and buy in fear of the Obama election and since I usually buy to replace what I shot I have run out"

That pretty much says it all as the average gun owner panicked when Obama won the election or even before that. Even I who never stocked up on primers before bougth a few just to have on hand and my income is limited. Local gun shop is now out of primers. A month ago he was again. As soon as he gets more in I will be buying some more just to have on hand. With out primers your gun does not go bang. Makes sense to have some on hand I do not call it hoarding I call it being smart.

[rbuck351]

I am one of those hoarders and have been hoarding for 40+years. I hoard primers, powder,bullets,lead, food,gasoline,tools and everything else I can think of and afford that may help my family and I survive when the stores run out of stuff. I did not panic and buy in fear when Obama was elected as I was already prepared. If you are not prepared to help yourself you certainly won't be prepared to help anyone else. I have hoarded to help myself and others of MY choosing when thing get tuff. Call me anything you want. I'll will call myself prepared. I am sorry for your lack of fore thought, but I thought what would happen after electing a collectivist was a given. I believe that this shortage will pass. Please prepare your self for what ever may be the next shortage as shortages are the norm in a socialist society.

[exile]

This has been going on for at least a year. For example, last March I purchased a .357 magnum. Called Midway looking for .38 special cases. None. Zero. Went to the gunshop, they could not find .38 special cases anywhere, from anybody.

I used to buy primers once box (1,000) at a time, until I went to the store and they did not have any. Now I buy in larger quantities. This has forced me to patronize some folks I did not before (Midsouth, Starline) and I have learned that they are great folks to deal with and have better deals than others. Starline's brass prices include shipping so they are much cheaper than Midway, Midsouth's primer prices are good enough that even with Hazmat they are cheaper than Cabela's. Wish I had known that before.

I used to look at people who bought new cars the same way. Eleven years ago when finances were better, I bought my first new car. Now that times are worse, I still have a car, whearas if I had bought another used one, I wouldn't even have a car.

I wish I had bought lots of primers when I could. I do not consider it "hoarding" if you are going to use them. My guess is future penalties for private sales on primers will make people who are buying them to sell think twice. If you are buying them to use, more power to you.

In my opinion, things are not going to get better. Saturday night on FOX news the headlines read, "China and Russia propose new global currency" and "Geithner says new global currency o.k." or something to that effect. Nobody even bat an eye while they were saying this. Things are not going to get better.

A few trips to the store to buy primers when you are out will make you a "hoarder" like the rest of us. Probably the shortage is being created by people who voted for Obama and have never owned a gun before, much less done any reloading or bullet casting. Now those are the folks that make me mad. As much as I appreciate new shooters, these folks will probably never join the NRA, GOA, JPFO, SEF, call, e-mail or write their congressman to protect gun rights. They will just buy what they can and depend on the rest of us to fight the battle, just like most gun owners who say, "They will never take my shotgun".

When you get home from the store and are frustrated with no primers being available, take the time to contact your elected officials while you are mad about infringements on your 2nd Amendment rights. That way your frustration will be put to good use.

Sorry to rant. Good luck on your search for primers.

exile

[mikenbarb]

Im a real happy pig hoarder and I wont miss a single day at the range for the next couple years and neither will any of my Buddy's if they run out of primers because I have plenty to share and share I do. Does that make me a pig or a hoarder with the 50,000+ primers(I had 80,000 but my friends are happy now.) I bought in advance when they were available to everyone for the same price from the same place? I think not and I have even helped out ALOT of members here with supplying them with primers because they ran out and none can be found unless you spend a 100 bucks a K. I bet you their real glad im a primer pig hoarder when their guns go bang and will continue to go bang till I run out myself and start grinding matchheads for primers! Theirs a difference with what one considers a pig or whatever it be but I dont consider myself a pig at all and none of the guys I continue to supply with primers think im a pig either. They consider me smart by thinking ahead and realizing this was going to happen and the problem is we all saw it coming but all didnt take advantage when we could and are now paying the price for it. Plus im glad I bought them instead of some Liberal buying them that doesnt need them and would wind up throwing them in the garbage after Obama is voted out. I didnt vote obama but knew this was all coming because its happened before if you can recall.
Im done typing because im going shooting now.:Fire:

[Digital Dan]

Hmm, er, well, there was a huge run on primers during the Clinton era, I have no idea why. Salesman Hussein has done so well there's a run on everything. I have adequate resources for my flintlock since it's not a spray and pray thing. I don't paper patch that one, just for the record, don't mean to be off topic.

I once went on a skeet shooting spree for about 3 years and shot 12-16K rounds per year. Dunno what constitutes hoarding in that venue. Couldn't do it now, obviously. Unless I load #9 in the flinter....not paper patched.

You can shoot more in a war. I used to shoot as much as 10K/day sometimes....not paper patched either.

[azrednek]

In previous primer shortages the short supply was temporary and dealer's stock quickly recovered. When I first heard of shortages starting right after the election I mistakenly assumed it would be a repeat of previous shortages. My 20/20 hindsight tells me I should have bought up all I could have afforded.

The US free market and the unwritten rules of supply and demand will return sufficient supplies as long as there isn't any government interference. It could be several months, a few years or a drastic increase in price before supplies become sufficiently available.

Reloaders hoarding primers are not the only reason for short supplies and my personal opinion it is only a very small portion of primer production and not the reason for the shortages. A vastly increased level of retail ammo purchases, ammunition hoarding by the public, military contracts and law enforcement agencies account for a major portion of all the primers being manufactured. Not by a very small portion of the public hoarding primers. The majority of newly manufactured primers are going to be used to keep up with the public and govt demand for ammunition. Naturally the manufactures will use their primers where they can make the most money, manufacturing ammo.

Blame the war, fear of new gun control laws and hoarding of ammo for the problem. Not the very tiny portion of the public that load their own ammo having foresight to stock up to ride out the temporary shortages.

[windrider919]

Wow, What a response. But some of you who criticized me for not being prepared might not know why I am not prepared. Not to be a sob story but I got screwed by the system a couple years ago. In March 2005 a 16 year old driving a stolen car ran over me. I mean the tires of the car ran over my body, crushing my chest, twisting my left arm around until all the tendons and shoulder joint tore up and wrecking my left wrist. Seven broken ribs and both lungs punctured. The cartilage where each rib joins the spine was torn which made every breath an agony. I was a millwright but was between jobs having been laid off just two weeks before. I had purchased insurance but it had not taken effect yet. The car was insured but BUT being stolen the insurance was void. At the time I had a three bedroom house, two trucks, a 26 ft boat, a motorhome, over 20 firearms, etc. All except the house paid for. I ended up riding the Lifeflight helo to Houston Herman hospital Emergancy Trama unit. I spent 21 days there when the normal visit is 12 days [they told me]. After release I spent 2 months flat on my back in bed where just going to the bathroom was an excruciating experience. If not for friends who fixed meals for me I would have starved because I could not move from bed to cook. I got staph while in the hospital which complicated my recovery and my bill is over $120,000.00 of which I have paid some. I did not ask for help, instead I sold everything I owned trying to pay my bills. Finally, when I now live in a loaned, dead (no engine, stove or hot water heater, just cold water) motorhome parked beside some friends barn where they let me hook up to their electricty and water. I use a wash rag to bathe with water heated in a 2 qt glass bown in the microwave. Just like camping / roughing it really. After two years the doctors told me I would never get any better so I FINALLY applied for Social Security disability. That was 1 1/2 years ago and I still do not have anything although my lawyer is confident I will when my case comes up this year. I am 53 and my 76 year old mother is splitting her retirement to buy food for me. 53 and having to depend on your Mother to live REALLY sucks. I do not have a TV or radio because I have hearing damage (tinnitus) from Vietnam and industrial work and cannot understand voices from speakers. So for entertainment I read.

And occasionally, once a month or so (when a friend takes me) I have been going shooting. Using powder I bought 5 and 6 years ago and bullets I cast myself. Hence my interest in PP. So the advice to "just buy a couple of thousand when the stores restock or to buy online won't work. I lost all my credit cards several years ago. I don't even have a bank account anymore. I am not crying here. I am making it. I just don't have the extra to build up a stockpile. By the way, I consider myself a conservative and I did NOT vote for Obama. I am proud to be an American and I volunteered for service when I was 17, I was not drafted. Now I am grateful to the VA because I get my medications from them when otherwise I would just die.

If I could I would rather be working. Even today I still get calls from old employers who are desperate for millwrights. Just last week I was offered $34.00 Hr and $70.00 per day per diem for a job lasting at least a year. I hate sitting idle and if I could I would be working, even part time. By the way, shooting no only cost me a little money. As proof of my love of the sport, the day after shooting even as little as 20 rounds will see me bedbound the day after. So I REALLY pay for my pleasure of shooting.

In conclusion; I'm not asking for any pity. I am making it, mostly on my own. I was just asking for some broadmindedness from those of you who can get whatever you want. Some of us have more restrictions that you might know of. I never imagined that I would end up where I am but my life changed in a heartbeat. Have some compassion because you never know when yours might change too.

[windrider919]

My apologies, my first post was done when mad / frustrated. I should have waited till I was calm and would not have vented like that. I do not really think anyone is a jerk.

No excuse but an explanation, I had just gotten off the phone with someone I had thought a friend for over 15 years who is one of those people who have (he says) over 50K primers. I have traded back and forth with him before and cast thousands of bullets for him at times (and never charged him what it really cost me) yet he would not sell, yes sell, me a pack [100 primers] just so I could have some loaded rounds in the house.

[Lead pot]

You must have done him wrong sometime or other or he would have given you some if he has .50K+
I just gave my friend a brick a short while ago because he ran out.

[windrider919]

Actually, I know that I have not done him wrong in any way. And in the balance I have done him a lot more favors than he has done for me. I recognize he is fairly mercenary because of his dealings with other people whom he has treated what I considered shabbily but he never really took advantage of me personally before or treated me like this..

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Windrider,

Sounds like a tough row to how pard, But the Jerk comments, did not win you many converts to you line of thinking.

I wish you well and hope someday your wheels are all on the road again.

The Lunger

[Apache]

Apology accepted, sorry bout the long string of bad luck......

[rbuck351]

I must apoligize for running my mouth without knowing your situation. As I said, I will share with those I choose an if I could get a brick of primers to you without it costing more than there worth I would do so. I live in Ak. and shipping and hazmat from here is ugly. There has to be some one from this forum in your area that could get you a few primers.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

This may be a little OT, but what exactly is causing the shortage, and why does it seem to be so long?

So far I've heard nothing about Obama or the democratic congress changing any laws that would create this. It seems that this is brought on by a panic, out of fear of Obama, not by Obama himself. (Please don't interpret that statement as any sort of support for Obama)

I heard some buzz about the fact that every little tiny town and berg has a police SWAT team now and their extensive training is using up ammo components like nuts. However, a demand like that would simply mean that saavy manufacturers would beef up their primer-making machines and run 'em 24-7. When the demand is great, the first company to meet that demand will win. Otherwise if they don't gear up, you'll begin to see other ammo manufacturers pop up, which means more competition.

The only other way I can think of that would cause a long-term drought would be a loss of some natural resource that goes into making them. Like the outrageous copper prices we saw which caused brass and bullet prices to skyrocket.

I believe there is a difference between hoarding, stockpiling, and panicking. I'm not a hoarder, and my stockpile has never exceeded 3,000 primers. I'm getting an education though. I guess I wasn't reloading at the time we had a previous shortage. I have no gripe with keeping a prudent stockpile especially when you know these shortages pop up around election time. Prudent stockpiling means building that stockpile during times of plenty and a willingness to share with friends. Panicking means building your stockpile during lean times or when there aren't a lot of resources - that's foolishness - a "buy high, sell low" mentality. Hoarding is; well Windrider's "friend" is a classic hoarder. The "I've got mine, sucks to be you" attitude defines a hoarder.

So I believe Windrider had a little bit of the truth in venting on hoarders and panickers. I just think there are a number of prudent stockpilers on this board that took the insult.

As for the panickers - I wonder if they had spent the money contributing to the McCain/Palin campaign if the money wouldn't have been better spent.

[ktw]

I bought up enough to last me through retirement about three years ago. I had the money then, I may not have the money after retirement. Retirement is still 15+ years off. In the meantime, whenever I find a good deal I replace whatever I've shot up recently and keep the stash topped off.

I would have no problem helping out a friend or local acquaintance with a brick or two for nothing more than the promise of replacing them sometime in the next couple of years.

I have no problem with people selling bricks for $75+ dollars, capitalizing on the recent supply problems. I won't play, either as a buyer or as a seller, but fortunes are made and lost every day this way in the commodities markets. This is nothing more than free and fair trade - willing buyer and willing seller. It is the American way. No one has a natural or constitutional right to buy primers at $20/k.

-ktw

[BD]

Well, I wasn't sure if I was a "jerk" hoarder or not as I've been working out of state for three years and i wasn't sure of what I had, or where I had it.

I went back up home last weekend to re-supply and I did a little rooting around in the barn. I'm happy to say that I am in fact a "jerk" hoarder, and that the hours I work will continue to be the limiting factor on how much I shoot for the next couple of years at least.

BD, ("Jerk" hoarder, and proud of it)

[Ron B.]

What gets me is all the folks claiming binge-panic buying is creating the primer shortage. If so, then why aren't any of the large retailers/Net Sellers at least getting stock in? Fact is, no one's getting primers. Companies, such as Winchester's mum on why; no explanation forthcoming.

Primers are available from many individual sources.
Question is, are you willing to pay the price to buy them?

**
I came back to add; times, such as these can bring out creativity in all of us. Since I have more large pistol primers than anything else, I'm testing the waters, using them for rifle loads. I know LPPs are made of softer metal than LRPs. It's a risk I'm being forced to take.
GRB

[Hurricane]

What type of primers are you looking for?

[montana_charlie]

What type of primers are you looking for?
windrider has stated in other threads that he shoots a paper patched bullet in .458 Winchester. Since this thread was started in the Paper Patch forum, I conclude his 'gripe' has to do with an inability to load that type of ammunition.

Therefore, you would probably be safe if you assume that he needs large rifle primers...
CM

[RMulhern]

:violin::violin:

[softpoint]

I am one of those hoarders and have been hoarding for 40+years. I hoard primers, powder,bullets,lead, food,gasoline,tools and everything else I can think of and afford that may help my family and I survive when the stores run out of stuff. I did not panic and buy in fear when Obama was elected as I was already prepared. If you are not prepared to help yourself you certainly won't be prepared to help anyone else. I have hoarded to help myself and others of MY choosing when thing get tuff. Call me anything you want. I'll will call myself prepared. I am sorry for your lack of fore thought, but I thought what would happen after electing a collectivist was a given. I believe that this shortage will pass. Please prepare your self for what ever may be the next shortage as shortages are the norm in a socialist society.

And down here, much farther South than you are, I have done the same. Not only ammo, components, food, water, diesel , gasoline, and planted more food crop this year than ever before. Some of the food may go to waste, but thats better than not having it. I think I am fortunate to live in a semi- rural area, too,

[RMulhern]

Softpoint

:drinks::drinks:I'd rather be broke and in jail in the boondocks than have to walk around in town....with a pocketful of money!!:drinks:

[windrider919]

Again, my apologies for inappropriate name calling in that earlier post. I still have not been able to locate any LR or LRM primers. I live 30 miles from Houston and will drive in to get them when they come in. I'm calling ea week and they keep promising "In a few weeks." The shame of it all was that I had a guy here in Alvin who I bought components from out of his garage for 25 years. He was the supply for all the high volume and target shooters locally. But the BATF went on a nationwide campaign to reduce the number off FFL holders and focused on the 'kitchen store' guys. I posted about it last year. They shut down 5 home guys and 2 stores in Brazoria County for trivial stuff. In Ron Gilstraps case it was so trivial as to be a joke. Ron would buy/ sell hand guns at cost for law enforcement officers. All others were components only. The agent looked through all his forms for five years and only found one mistake. On one form the buyer had left out the comma between city and state. The BATF agent said it was a $150,000.00 Fine or he could give up his license. That there were zero errors allowed and that he had violated the law by allowing the sale ( to a police officer!). He told me he never made much on the business and that it was easier to just give up his FFL rather than spend thousands on an attorney and maybe face losing and fines. I will say that this happened during Bush's last year, but we all know the BATF has been against shooters for years no matter whos in office.

By the way, I was a NRA member for 22 years and sent in several thousand dollars during that time to the ILA and Second Amendment foundation. When I lost everything I could not make my dues and asked / wrote to the NRA headquarters to see if they could put my membership in suspension. No answer back. So I called and was told too bad about that, no member hold or suspension. So when and if I ever get my head back above water I guess I won't be re-joining the NRA. They do not seem to want to keep members and I was getting tired of the amount of junk mail from them anyway.

[windrider919]

Again, my apologies for inappropriate name calling in that earlier post. I still have not been able to locate any LR or LRM primers. I live 30 miles from Houston and will drive in to get them when they come in. I'm calling ea week and they keep promising "In a few weeks." The shame of it all was that I had a guy here in Alvin who I bought components from out of his garage for 25 years. He was the supply for all the high volume and target shooters locally. But the BATF went on a nationwide campaign to reduce the number off FFL holders and focused on the 'kitchen store' guys. I posted about it last year. They shut down 5 home guys and 2 stores in Brazoria County for trivial stuff. In Ron Gilstraps case it was so trivial as to be a joke. Ron would buy/ sell hand guns at cost for law enforcement officers. All others were components only. The agent looked through all his forms for five years and only found one mistake. On one form the buyer had left out the comma between city and state. The BATF agent said it was a $150,000.00 Fine or he could give up his license. That there were zero errors allowed and that he had violated the law by allowing the sale ( to a police officer!). He told me he never made much on the business and that it was easier to just give up his FFL rather than spend thousands on an attorney and maybe face losing and fines. I will say that this happened during Bush's last year, but we all know the BATF has been against shooters for years no matter whos in office.

By the way, I was a NRA member for 22 years and sent in several thousand dollars during that time to the ILA and Second Amendment foundation. When I lost everything I could not make my dues and asked / wrote to the NRA headquarters to see if they could put my membership in suspension. No answer back. So I called and was told too bad about that, no member hold or suspension. So when and if I ever get my head back above water I guess I won't be re-joining the NRA.

[vonnieglen]

There are few places online that allow back-ordering primers. I ordered some from Cabelas at the end of Februarly and they started showing up a thousand or a two at a time within a couple of weeks. I was very close to running out completely. I have back-ordered some more with a friend so we could split the hazmat and shipping fees a couple of weeks ago and they are suppose to start showing up within a couple of weeks. If you order now you will probably have some within a month or two. Some brands and types are delayed longer than others.

Up until they started getting hard to find, I would just buy them as I needed them. Now you have to plan a couple months ahead at least.

[unclebill]

i have always bought as much as i could afford.
usually 1 sleeve at a time.
ive got about 7000 right now.
if i would have had the money i would have bought a lot more.

[Ron B.]

Thanks vonnieglenn for the head'sup regarding Cabelas!
They just received my order; locking the price on Winchester primers in place.
Hopefully I'll get them every one! :)

Hey windrider;
About the NRA, last year I signed up for a lifetime membership. The NRA debits my CC every month for about $25; very promptly. When I did not receive any word from them, confirming my membership I called. I was told I would not be issued a membership card until my membership was paid in full. Odd, at least to me. I also did not like their attitude; although still allowing them to charge me for something I haven't received. Personally, I THINK THE NRA ORGAINIZATION IS JUST ANOTHER PACK OF MONEY HUNGRY WOLVES. Almost everyday, I receive emails pitching wines, credit cards, clothing; you name it!

GRB

[Jon]

There are few places online that allow back-ordering primers. I ordered some from Cabelas at the end of Februarly and they started showing up a thousand or a two at a time within a couple of weeks. I was very close to running out completely. I have back-ordered some more with a friend so we could split the hazmat and shipping fees a couple of weeks ago and they are suppose to start showing up within a couple of weeks. If you order now you will probably have some within a month or two. Some brands and types are delayed longer than others.

Up until they started getting hard to find, I would just buy them as I needed them. Now you have to plan a couple months ahead at least.

Did you get charged hazmat for each partial shipment of primers? That's what I'm worried about with getting primers piece meal from places on line

[Echo]

Hey windrider;
About the NRA, last year I signed up for a lifetime membership. The NRA debits my CC every month for about $25; very promptly. When I did not receive any word from them, confirming my membership I called. I was told I would not be issued a membership card until my membership was paid in full. Odd, at least to me.


Yo, GRB

I got my Life Membership back in the late Sixties - paid quarterly, $25 per quarter IIRC for a couple of years, and didn't get my LM until all paid. I believe I was classified as a Conditional Life Member until the full amount was paid. Just makes sense, doesn't it? I paid for mine with Silver Certificates (Award Points) as I was a shootin' fool in those days, and USAF was paying my entrance fees.

[Ron B.]

You Man Echo! :)
You may be right; every quarter---too often! Lol!

GRB

[jackley]

Well the hoarders are finally selling!! On Graigs list $100 a 1000 on one ad and $65 a 1000 on another. And these are suppose to be our shooting brothers. So much for sticking together.

Jerry

[Ron B.]

Jackley, I tell you now; I'm not surprised in the least. I really expect to see people eventually paying a lot more. "There be gold in them there little packages Partner!" :)

About Craig's List' every time I post an ad having anything to do with shooting/hunting, it gets deleted.
Hate Craig'sList!

GRB

[Just Duke]

Wow, What a response. But some of you who criticized me for not being prepared might not know why I am not prepared. Not to be a sob story but I got screwed by the system a couple years ago. In March 2005 a 16 year old driving a stolen car ran over me. I mean the tires of the car ran over my body, crushing my chest, twisting my left arm around until all the tendons and shoulder joint tore up and wrecking my left wrist. Seven broken ribs and both lungs punctured. The cartilage where each rib joins the spine was torn which made every breath an agony. I was a millwright but was between jobs having been laid off just two weeks before. I had purchased insurance but it had not taken effect yet. The car was insured but BUT being stolen the insurance was void. At the time I had a three bedroom house, two trucks, a 26 ft boat, a motorhome, over 20 firearms, etc. All except the house paid for. I ended up riding the Lifeflight helo to Houston Herman hospital Emergancy Trama unit. I spent 21 days there when the normal visit is 12 days [they told me]. After release I spent 2 months flat on my back in bed where just going to the bathroom was an excruciating experience. If not for friends who fixed meals for me I would have starved because I could not move from bed to cook. I got staph while in the hospital which complicated my recovery and my bill is over $120,000.00 of which I have paid some. I did not ask for help, instead I sold everything I owned trying to pay my bills. Finally, when I now live in a loaned, dead (no engine, stove or hot water heater, just cold water) motorhome parked beside some friends barn where they let me hook up to their electricty and water. I use a wash rag to bathe with water heated in a 2 qt glass bown in the microwave. Just like camping / roughing it really. After two years the doctors told me I would never get any better so I FINALLY applied for Social Security disability. That was 1 1/2 years ago and I still do not have anything although my lawyer is confident I will when my case comes up this year. I am 53 and my 76 year old mother is splitting her retirement to buy food for me. 53 and having to depend on your Mother to live REALLY sucks. I do not have a TV or radio because I have hearing damage (tinnitus) from Vietnam and industrial work and cannot understand voices from speakers. So for entertainment I read.

And occasionally, once a month or so (when a friend takes me) I have been going shooting. Using powder I bought 5 and 6 years ago and bullets I cast myself. Hence my interest in PP. So the advice to "just buy a couple of thousand when the stores restock or to buy online won't work. I lost all my credit cards several years ago. I don't even have a bank account anymore. I am not crying here. I am making it. I just don't have the extra to build up a stockpile. By the way, I consider myself a conservative and I did NOT vote for Obama. I am proud to be an American and I volunteered for service when I was 17, I was not drafted. Now I am grateful to the VA because I get my medications from them when otherwise I would just die.

If I could I would rather be working. Even today I still get calls from old employers who are desperate for millwrights. Just last week I was offered $34.00 Hr and $70.00 per day per diem for a job lasting at least a year. I hate sitting idle and if I could I would be working, even part time. By the way, shooting no only cost me a little money. As proof of my love of the sport, the day after shooting even as little as 20 rounds will see me bedbound the day after. So I REALLY pay for my pleasure of shooting.

In conclusion; I'm not asking for any pity. I am making it, mostly on my own. I was just asking for some broadmindedness from those of you who can get whatever you want. Some of us have more restrictions that you might know of. I never imagined that I would end up where I am but my life changed in a heartbeat. Have some compassion because you never know when yours might change too.

Very sad. If your were here I would just give you a case. Very sorry what happened sir.

[BPCR Bill]

I think there are "Hoarders" in this primer deal and then there are a number of us who prudently stock up for times such as these. Ever since WJC I buy primers whenever I can, not in huge numbers but when I have the money or when they were on sale. Whether I needed them or not was never a consideration. Right now I have a bit more than 25K. I truly think there are folks out there who are buying primers by the pallet before they ever reach the store shelves, which is absolutely insane. I think they are trying to screw the rest of us, like the oil speculators did last year. Ditto for the firearms. I bet there are some idiots out there who think when a gun ban takes affect they will make a killing on black market firearms. I really hope they lose there collective butts in this deal.

Regards,
Bill

[jh45gun]

Sorry to hear of your problems windrider but I suspect there are others here who do not have much for funds to buy reloading stuff but do the best they can. I am one of them I am on disability but when I heard that there was going to be shortages I stocked up what I could afford. That meant a brick of each shotgun large rifle and large pistol primers. several pounds of powder that I normally use. Last week I got an other thousand for LP and LR and put them on layaway as I did not have the money at the moment to pay cash for them. (fortunately my gun shop has a layaway plan) When I get them paid off I will be buying more powder a pound or two at a time until I figure I have enough for my shooting needs. I cannot afford 8 pounds at a time but that is still no excuse not to buy what I can afford when I can afford it. All this on ss disability so I know where your coming from but I still manage to do so a little at a time. Only problem I can see is you did not act fast enough which is too bad I suspect others got caught too.

[shooterg]

I guess I'm one of them "hoarders" who never likes to below a level that I won't name - got taken by surprise in the early 90's and decided that wasn't happening again ! While I won't sell primers, I am helping out some friends who are short - they have to repay me in kind when primers become available again. Don't believe I ever paid more than $15/1000, but I believe when the dust settles we'll be paying $30/$35 minimum.

[RMulhern]

This is the world's smallest musical instrument:

:violin::violin::violin:

[9.3X62AL]

There was a time on this board when a bit of compassion and understanding flowed through the membership in general. From some of the commentary I see in this thread, it is obvious that the mercenary and predatory mindset has overtaken those prior times and left it in the dust.

I'm ashamed to say that I associate with such a lot.

Small wonder I got canned as a moderator a few months back--there's no room for compassion and damn little space for fellowship here any more. About a dozen of the above posts need to go, in my opinion. Heartless dogs........

[RMulhern]

There was a time on this board when a bit of compassion and understanding flowed through the membership in general. From some of the commentary I see in this thread, it is obvious that the mercenary and predatory mindset has overtaken those prior times and left it in the dust.

I'm ashamed to say that I associate with such a lot.

Small wonder I got canned as a moderator a few months back--there's no room for compassion and damn little space for fellowship here any more. About a dozen of the above posts need to go, in my opinion. Heartless dogs........

Heartless dogs....???

Not hardly....but apparently there are some folks here that don't suffer those folks lightly that are either TOO TIGHT to keep a cache of supplies on hand or whom cannot see any farther down the road than the end of their noses or either who just want sympathy by coming on here and P&M about their present dilemma of no components!! This leads one to believe that these folks are just very occasional users of firearms, for in the final analysis....any shooter and especially any competitive shooter who has been around longer than ten years or so should have realized that with the Bozo in the White House now....things were possibly going to GET TIGHT.....and that's not even considering the fact the our military has been using up boatloads of ammo for the past 7 years!! Those of us whom have been through these times before......yeah....we're the HEARTLESS DOGS....that are 'hoarding' all the primers and powder!!

Oh...by the way.....you must be out yourself!![smilie=1::roll:

[JSH]

I am far from out on anything. But, I refuse to follow a lot of others fear factors. Now, don't get me wrong here gents. The ones with the worst fears are not shooters, hunters or sportsmen for the most part. They are the ones that a brick of 22's would last them a couple of years. They go to the local mart and there is very few or they put a limit on it. So instead of buying a couple of bricks, they buy a couple of cases. Several life times supplies for most of them.
I put no one here on this board in that "class". The ones doing this are theones putting the hurt to the rest of us.
I know of one fellow fairly close to home here that has to have in excess of 500K in primers. He has been buying a case a month of what ever he could get his hands on. If a month went by and he didn't get a case, he would buy them at the first chance. I have no problem with that for the most part. But, here is the kicker. The guy doesn't even own a press oir set of dies and has only reloaded a handfull of cases to my knowledge. He gives his BIL a few primers and a couple of pounds of powder to reload what he wants/or needs. He has been buying powder pretty much the same way. WTH will he do with 50 lbs of bullseye????
He is now rat holing bullets and cases, what ever he can get his hands on. A fair amount of it he doesn't even own a firearm it is chambered for.
I went to an auction a couple of weeks back. Wolf 7.62x39 sold for $19 per 20+105 buyers premium. The guy bought alll the boxes in the pop flat. When it came time to pay up, he backed out and they resold them for $8-9 per 20+the premium.
Remington thunderbolt 22 ammo450 rounds left in the brick$27+10%.
Remington cleanbore the old greenbox ball ammo25acp, $37+10%.
A pop flat of misc. ball ammo some in stripper clips some loose. 308, 8mm mauser and some 7.62x39, maybe 300 total dated 66-mid 70's. Now here is the kicker, biggest part of it is corroded. I would have tossed it in the trash $90+10%.
I refuse to follow the masses on the scare tactics.

As to my supplies on hand. I keep enough on hand to load what is shot for the year, x2. Just in case I have time through the winter too process all of it ahead of time. My only regrets on not stocking up on GOOD .22 ammo is kicking my tail now. That is about the only thing I have slowed down on shooting. I refuse to buy junk .22 ammo served up to the masses. So I do buy this when found, as long as it is somthing I know will shoot to my standards.
One of the garage or kitchen dealers I have bought from for a long time off and on is pretty much cleaned out. On the positive side for him. I am glad to see him get rid of it as his health is not the greatest so maybe what he had and figured he would set on forever is sold with a good bit of profit or interest. I am glad on that aspect to see him get his money back and enjoy it.
He had one of the larger offerings of powder, primer, shot, brass, bullets and loaded ammo in these parts. To those of you that know who I am speaking of, they are down to sweeping the floors the last time i was over there. Sheleves are empty for the most part.

This is to those of you that were around when the limit/or ban on the full autos came into play around the mid to early 60's I believe. How many people ran out and bought full autos becasue the world was going to end?
Look at the pre internet era. How much of this type of action going on now went on in the70's, 80's and early 90's. The brady bill was the first, that I would call bad one I can rememeber.
The internet is a usefull item no doubt. But too much of a good thing can be bad also. I see, hear and almost refuse to read a lot of half truths, bits and pieces and hearsay articles anymore.


If this is out of line or offended anyone, sorry. It was not meant to do so.
jeff

[9.3X62AL]

FPM, I'm actually in pretty good shape in terms of primer supply and other consumables.

I just think it is low-class, cruel, and demeaning to taunt and bully someone less fortunate than myself. The kind of mindset that fosters such feeling could likely accomodate dog or chicken fighting, or maybe child pornography or prostitution for that matter. You know, a venue where someone at great advantage over another exploits that advantage cruelly and to sickening effect. Heartless dogs, in other words.

[felix]

Yes, indeed, Al. Bragging rights (in terms of thanks) should be shared between an individual and the Lord ONLY. Everybody has bragging rights in this regard, and it is up to us individually to realize that. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Our great leader, Obama, says you with the wealth, in this case primers and other consumables, should share them with the less fortunate. [smilie=1:

Joe

[montana_charlie]

Being such an agreeable guy, I have been following along with this thread...trying to decide who I agree with.

I started by agreeing with windrider. He didn't take any particular action to 'stock up', and neither did I.

Then I found myself agreeing with those who keep a good supply on hand at all times, without being 'excessive' about it.

Unlike windrider, I am not out of primers. I have an amount that I expect will fill my needs for two years. But, unlike the (non-excessive) 'prudent' types, I don't have 25K...or even 5K...set aside.

There are some guys here that I knew I disagreed with from the start.
That would be a guy who has enough to last him for the foreseeable future, but insists on buying more and more...and the guy (scalper) who accumulated a massive supply hoping sell it off at super-inflated prices.
The first has some security complex issues, and the second is a predator with a one-sided view of 'fairness'. (And, for those who would respond by saying 'life ain't fair', substitute 'honor' for fairness and post your reply.)

When Al said his piece in Post #55 I suddenly realized he was the guy I was waiting for...the one I could agree with.
So, to all of the in-betweeners, congratulations on being smarter than I...and help out a neighbor if you can.
To those like windrider, you have my sympathy, but my own stock is too small to help you...even if we were close.
To the 'knee-jerk hoarders', talk to your analyst.

And to the scalpers - those who believe in 'more for me and screw you'...
May it come to pass that you spend your 'profits' on cancer treatments for your children.

CM

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The Type of Primer that is my first choice for My long Range shooting is the Old White Box WLR's that were for standard or Mag loadings.

Hence they are no longer made, when ever I can find a hoard or Stash of them that folks are willing to part with, I buy Them.

I try to keep about 30K on hand, I am only 46 years old but hope to shoot for at least 15 or so more years maybe 20 if I beat the Doc's Perdictions. What I have on hand will not make it as I use 2K to 4K a year depending on my work schedule and matches I wish to attend.

I too felt the pinch in the early 90's under Prez WJC and learned my lesson as a Highpower competitor that was burning 4-6K of reloads a year.

A wise man knows that there is always the possibility of drought, (shortages) thus he digs a well and builds a cristren. For windless-Dry times.

For the fella thats unable to get primers and on a very tight budget my heart goes out to you, times are tough.

I reload for my father, my youngest brother and nephew, My oldest daughter and her Husband, myself, and 2 uncles. I keep a lot of componets on hand powder and Bullets and Primers. Mostly of the 30 and 6.5 calibers as we are all using 6.5's now to hunt with. My dad is rather infatuated with my 17 Rem so that requires a storage of Small rifle primers to be kept on hand and also for my 22 Hornet.

Thus I keep plenty on hand for I hope a long future.

The Lunger

Kenny Wasserburger

As for judging???

I leave that up to a much higher authority.

[Don McDowell]

I've always tried to keep a year or more supply ahead, its just the nature of the way I was brought up and raised. The wife and I could probably live a year without a trip to the grocery store, we go about shooting supplies etc the same way.
I do think however this will be somewhat similar to the nonsense that took place in the 90's, and when the dust settles there's liable to be more reloading components at garage sales than you can shake a stick at.
I don't harbor any ill will towards those that do actively shoot , and stock up on xmany thousands of primers, cases, and powder enough to fill and shoot that much.
I do have a viceral disagreement with the knotheads that are buying thousands more rounds of primers, powder, and loaded ammo than they'll ever shoot in their lifetime x 6. Just what do these clowns think is going to happen should their paranoic government fears happen and guns/ammo are outlawed? Take to the streets in armed rebellion? I doubt it, besides all that if you want to see how well that works take a look at the body count of incountry natives in Irag.If firearms should happen to become outlawed the first time you go out and try to shoot a few of those hoarded rounds you can bet some twit will turn you in for the reward, the jackbooted thugs will come to arrest, probably kill you on site, burn your house down and put your wife and kids in concentration camps. Gonna black market the stuff? Watch out for the narcs, there'll be a plenty of turn coats willing to get you busted to keep their worthless asses out of the clink.
I feel bad for the op on this thread, but then on the other hand, having been flat out busted and starving a time or two myself, having more than enough ammunition hanging around to poach a deer for food now and then is money not well spent, and could be better put to use some where else. Besides all that if you're going to allow some out of your budget to shoot buying 22 lr will go much further than a box of primers.

[longbow]

I think montana charlie has said it best ~ especially the scalper comment.

Longbow

[imashooter2]

I think montana charlie has said it best ~ especially the scalper comment.

Longbow

Really? I thought it was a remarkably callous, cold and uncalled for comment made all the more reprehensible for being the last sentences in a post agreeing with a man calling for some decorum.

Wishing cancer on a man's children as revenge for his actions is just plain wrong. Shame on the both of you.

[LongPoint]

Brother AL, I couldn't agree with you more. The level of Class and Compassion on this forum is at an all time low. Go ahead guys kick em while he's down. I've been with some of you fellows since the days of the old Shooters Forum, don't post much just read a lot learn a little and once in a while get a good laugh. Not so much anymore. I got caught short on primers back when ole Bill got elected so I put a few up since then for a rainy day. Well its raining as I type this in Fort Bend County, Texas and Alvin is just up the road a piece so its probably raining there too.

Windrider if you let me know what Primer you prefer and I got em I'll give you a few hunnert, as a matter of fact I'll meet you at the Chevron Station in Rosharon and save you some of the drive.


LongPoint

[9.3X62AL]

LongPoint--bless your heart, sir.