? on Gas checks

[Johnch]

Right now this is just a question to see if a idea would work

As I use a fair amount of GC's and would wonder if my idea had meriot

I know normal GC's are a cup to cover the base and sides of the base of the bullet

The base of the GC protects the base of the bullet from the hot gasses
The sides of the GC prevent blow by and make the base perfictly flat
So on exit from the muzzel , there isn't any tiping


But my question is
What would happen if we only used a ring of metal on the GC shank to prevent blow by and make the base square
While leaving the base of the bullet unprotected

I know there would be a slight amount of lead vaporized by the hot gasses
But would it be enought to lead to leading ?


The reason I ask
At work we started a project where we use a copper sleave that is compressed , by a nut as is tightened onto the stud
To sort of form a washer
Not exactly sure what it dose , but it is speced out that way

Looks and is just a short .1" to .125" long piece of cut off copper tubeing
We will be useing then in a number of sizes if we get the contract


I was wondering if I just stuck one on a GC shank and sized it on
Would it provide the same benifits as a normal GC ?

Not sure of the cost of them , as they are being supplyed to us for the test run of the contract

I am planning on snagging a few Monday for a test :cbpour:

John

[RayinNH]

John it certainly has merit. You never know until you try. I would think it would work to some degree if it indeed stays attached to the boolit. I very much doubt they would be less expensive as a gas check though...Ray

[mooman76]

People use other things to replace gas checks such as wax or fiber wad and they help stop leading so why not your idea.

[44mag1]

curios if the "ring" would be shoved forward when fired creating new problems, definatly worth a try

[anachronism]

It would be worth your time to research the work of one of the older gun writers, John Lachuk. He was probably more responsible for the actual pre-development of what later became known as the 44 magnum than Elmer Keith, who was really the pitchman for the concept. John also experimented with using short pieces of copper tubing in special moulds & casting semi-wadcutters around them. He also worked on wrapping bullets with copper wire, special gascheck designs, and many other ideas that should never be forgotten. The last I knew, John was still alive, living in retirement. The man was a treasurehouse of knowledge.

[44man]

Right now this is just a question to see if a idea would work

As I use a fair amount of GC's and would wonder if my idea had meriot

I know normal GC's are a cup to cover the base and sides of the base of the bullet

The base of the GC protects the base of the bullet from the hot gasses
The sides of the GC prevent blow by and make the base perfictly flat
So on exit from the muzzel , there isn't any tiping


But my question is
What would happen if we only used a ring of metal on the GC shank to prevent blow by and make the base square
While leaving the base of the bullet unprotected

I know there would be a slight amount of lead vaporized by the hot gasses
But would it be enought to lead to leading ?


The reason I ask
At work we started a project where we use a copper sleave that is compressed , by a nut as is tightened onto the stud
To sort of form a washer
Not exactly sure what it dose , but it is speced out that way

Looks and is just a short .1" to .125" long piece of cut off copper tubeing
We will be useing then in a number of sizes if we get the contract


I was wondering if I just stuck one on a GC shank and sized it on
Would it provide the same benifits as a normal GC ?

Not sure of the cost of them , as they are being supplyed to us for the test run of the contract

I am planning on snagging a few Monday for a test :cbpour:

John
Read the post "Gas checks or no gas checks."
A ring of copper, etc, will work. The boolit base is never melted or vaporized so it really needs no protection. Those that use other materials like paper or wads are not driving boolits past where they lose grip with the rifling so it is a moot point. Other reasons might come into play to aid accuracy but I assure you is is not boolit base protection.

[Capn Jack]

Interesting concept.:coffee:
Similar to the rotating bands on a steel artillery shell. :) I have limited knowledge on the subject, but doesn't the pressure on the surface of the gas check from the exploding powder keep it in place and help to bond it to the base of the boolit? :confused: If you don't need to keep the base of the boolit from eroding, why would you need a copper band around the boolit?:-?

[44man]

Interesting concept.:coffee:
Similar to the rotating bands on a steel artillery shell. :) I have limited knowledge on the subject, but doesn't the pressure on the surface of the gas check from the exploding powder keep it in place and help to bond it to the base of the boolit? :confused: If you don't need to keep the base of the boolit from eroding, why would you need a copper band around the boolit?:-?
All bullets skid before taking the rifling. The gas check will take the rifling better then lead will. PB boolits are great until velocity or pressure causes the groove marks at the base to be larger then the lands and grooves of the rifling. A gas check allows more velocity before this happens. You have a better seal too so gas does not go past the boolit through large skid marks---thus a GAS CHECK! :Fire: I prefer a hard drive band for the name.
Many jacketed bullets for target have bare lead at the base. Have you EVER seen one melt or erode? Have you EVER seen Dacron filler burn? Have you EVER seen a burned wad from under a boolit?
Strange isn't it that some think lead melts but Dacron doesn't? Paper wads never burn either.

[JIMinPHX]

The thing to watch here is component separation. I remember some guys in the old days taking FMJ rounds & cutting the tips off them with the intention of getting them to act like soft points. The core would sometimes blow out the middle & leave the jacket behind in the barrel.

If you try this "ring" trick, make sure that you check your bore for obstructions after every shot.

[odoh]

+1 JIM beat me. Could verywell become an obstruction unless it was incorporated in the cast slightly forward of the base. Already had my bore obstruction allocation for this lifetime :eek: The harvey zinc washer method would be hard to improve on.

[Johnch]

The thing to watch here is component separation. I remember some guys in the old days taking FMJ rounds & cutting the tips off them with the intention of getting them to act like soft points. The core would sometimes blow out the middle & leave the jacket behind in the barrel.

If you try this "ring" trick, make sure that you check your bore for obstructions after every shot.

This never entered my thoughts
Might be a real problem

I will have to look how well the rings crimp on

If not well
I will probely scrap the idea

No need to ruin a barrel

John

[JIMinPHX]

No need to ruin a barrel


Forget the barrel, I'd be more concerned about your fingers, or your face.

[archmaker]

I remember back somewhere the idea of using thick plastic for the same purpose. It may have been in the IHMSA or the CBA back around 1990 give or take a few years.

I remember the discussion about using Poly and getting sheets of the poly.

Ok, I went and found the issue it was in the CBA #74 1988.

They talked about using poly wads vs non-poly on boolits and they noticed that a group that was shooting 3" decreased down to 1.5" (PB vs PB with poly wad). They found the best source of plastic at that time was Anti-freeze bottles. They commented also that the flat plastic when recovered did show signs of rifling.

It may not be applicable to what you are thinking about, but it is interesting thought. I would give it a try to see if you get an increase in accuracy and is it worth. Just check after each shot and make sure your bore is clear.

Then test to see if the accuracy and leading is different with your GC-ring or just plain GC.