Lyman #357446

[Whitespider]

I’ve been workin’ with the Lyman #357446 in the K38 I picked up a few weeks ago, darn thing just won’t shoot! I believe I’ve got the lube and sizing diameter right because I’ve not had any leading, not even a single speck of lead. I know the revolver is capable of fine shootin’, when I first acquired it I grabbed some HBWC’s loaded with 3.0-grains Red Dot I had in the cabinet, and put 18-rounds into a nice pretty 2¼-inch group at 25-yards (rested of course).

This Lyman 162-grain SWC boolit shoots all over the paper, I can’t even call the holes in the target a ‘group’. It’s almost as though better than half the rounds are flyers, low, high, left and right. No evidence of key-holing, perfectly round holes in the paper. I weighed a handful before lube-sizing, heaviest to lightest weight was only .3-grains difference. Started with 4.0-grains of W231, tried more, tried less... same thing. I’m not a big believer in changing powders until I can get the projectile shootin’ reasonably well, and this one ain’t shootin’ at all.

Honestly, I’m a little miffed and confused. I’m ‘bout ready to try seating them backwards in the case, can’t shoot any worse. I could try them in my .357 King Cobra, but that revolver hasn’t ever shot anything very well, so it wouldn’t tell me much.

I’m curious; anybody else tried, or used, this boolit in the .38 Special, or at .38 velocities? And, what have been the results?

[anachronism]

Try a different powder. Every gun is a rule unto itself. You should have seen what I went through with a 41 magnum Redhawk, it took years to find the magic load.

[Dale53]

The Lyman #357446 has done excellent work for generations of shooters. What diameter, alloy, and lube are you using?

Dale53

[Poygan]

White Spider:

I share your frustration. Years ago, I had a .358156 that worked well and a .357446 that at best was mediocre. Got rid of the .357446. A few years ago, I bought another .357446 thinking that this time I could make it work. While I didn't try too many variations, I again experienced poor results. I don't recall the boolit diameter but suspect a too small diameter was the main problem. It certainly looks like it should work and I'm sure other have had better luck. But I sold it here to avoid the temptation of further annoyance.

[beagle]

I'm with you on the 357446. I can't get it to shoot consistently in anything and that's several Smiths, several Rugers, a Colt Python, a M1894 carbine and a Contender.

I've opened the bands and in particular the front driving band, I've HP'd it and tried every diameter from .356" to .360". It just gives flyers with every load I've tried.

I have an old 1958 vintage Python with a very tight barrel and it shoots fairly well in it but not as well as other designs do.

In talking with Crazy Mark, we're kind of of the opinion that there's a design flaw in the design. Now, I've probably shot 5 thousand rounds with it and no consistent results.

I've given it up as a bad cause and the 429360 in the .44 Magnum for the same reason.

Now, having said this, I've noticed that the faster the velocity, the better the accuracy but at .38 Special velocities, it won't cut it for me and if someone wants to take my mould over and give it a try, I'll make them a deal on it./beagle

[georgewxxx]

I'll have to concur with Beagle. While trying to work up loads for my son-in-law, I've tried 5 different moulds and after 500 rds, the 358446 is definitely the worst. The old round nosed 358311 will always get the better groups no matter how fast I push them. It doesn't make nice wad cutter type holes like the others do but it sure beats the pants off of the 357446....Geo

[Whitespider]

Well, in a way, I’m glad I’m not alone with this problem. I was starting to believe that my boolit technique(s) was to blame, and I suppose it still could be.

Here’s what I’ve tried...
First I slugged the barrel and cylinder mouths of the revolver. The mouths measured .3589, the 5-groove barrel made it impossible to get a consistent measurement. But, the barrel slug would fall through the cylinder mouths with a slight tapping.
Next I cast a few boolits from the #357446 using WW alloy plus a bit of tin. The front and rear driving bands averaged about .3578 (not quite perfectly round), but the center bands were somewhat smaller. I ran them through my .358 lube-sizer die, using my homemade lube (that’s another story). Tried 3.5, 4.0 and 4.5-grains W231, they didn’t shoot worth a darn.
So I carefully lapped the mold, working a little at a time, until I had it dropping round(er) boolits, with all bands at .3584 (+ or - .0001). Sized them in the same die and ended up with boolits measuring .3582-inch. Tried 3.5, 3.7, 3.9, 4.1, 4.3 and 4.5-grains W231, they didn’t shoot worth a darn.
Even though the gun shot very well with the HBWC’s, I thought maybe there was something amiss with the revolver. I tried a few small groups using individual cylinder chambers, didn’t change a thing.
Again I carefully lapped the mold, keeping an eye on the weights being dropped from the two cavities, until it was dropping at just over .359-inch. Opened up my sizing die until the sized and lubed boolits measured .3587-inch, a nice snug fit in the cylinder mouths. They didn’t shoot worth a darn.
I thought maybe I’d screwed-up the lapping and mismatched the two cavities or some such. So I separated the boolits from each cavity and treated them as two different boolits using 3.7, 4.0, and 4.3-grains W231. Neither boolit shot worth a darn. In fact, they shot exactly the same, and they didn’t shoot any better, or any worse than the boolits that came from the un-altered mold.

Listen, I’d be willing to try a different powder, but I doubt a powder change is gonna fix 25-yard groups that are measured with a 12-inch ruler. Seriously, a 12-round string will have maybe five or six in a 2 to 3-inch group and the other six or seven rounds are scattered about the target like a shotgun pattern. If I do give the mold another chance, with another powder, I’ll use something a long ways from W231 burn rate. I’m not holding out much hope.

[mainiac]

Well aint this sumpthin!!!! I bought a 357466 a few years ago,and i couldnt get it to shoot! I didnt get on here and ask the question you did,because i thought it was just my mold. I feel better knowing that i dont have the only bummer out there!

[44 WCF]

I too had a this mould. I had bought the mould new, old stock from a family owned hardware who got out of the castng and reloading business many years ago. Was when I first started casting. But was I ever pround of that 4 cavity mould, my first and price was only $23.95, a mid 60's or so price in 1988.
Couldn't get it too shoot, and leading was horrible, I called Lyman, they explained this mould was smaller diameter and was made for .38 revolvers from years ago that had tight groove diameters and seems somthing about the riflling twist and hot rod loads in 38 cases or whatever. If I banged it hard, with softer alloy was somewhat better.

Being new caster at the time, I didn't realize .357 sizing die was just barely touching the bullets, With receipt I shipped them the mould, gave me credit for my purchase price, I paid the difference and they replaced it with the current mould 358477, all is well and I use .358 die.
Don't know if it cause of the ill shooting for others, but I sure couldn't find a fix for that mould in 3 differnet revolvers, a carbine and a Contender barrel.

44 WCF

[David R]

It shoots awesome... as in the best in my ruger security six with 4.0 of bullseye with 38 cases. I bought the mold here from some one, maybe one of the above posters. Its a 4 banger.

Sized .359 with a Star, Carnuba Red lube.

David :)

[BABore]

It will shoot fine, just not at low velocity and pressure. Push it hard and it will perform. Sadly, it's not a great plinker.

[Dale53]

Whitespider;
It sounds to me like you're a careful worker and are doing the right things.

I believe I would market that mould and get myself a mould for a bullet easier to work with. I have had good luck with a 358429 (Elmer Keith bullet) and the Lee 358-158-RF. The Lee is available in the six cavity mould and that is ALWAYS a plus.

Dale53

[Whitespider]

Yeah Dale53, I’ve already made up my mind to get a different SWC mold for the K38. Even if I somehow got the #357446 to shoot acceptably, I don’t think I’d ever have any confidence in it. Although, out of curiosity, I am gonna try it with some full-house loads in my King Cobra, might just be the boolit that revolver has been waitin’ for.

I find it interesting that the consensus here is this boolit needs to be pushed hard to perform. Interesting because my Lyman 47th edition lists it for the .38 Special at velocities well under 1000 fps, yet doesn’t list it at all for the .357 Magnum.

[crazy mark]

Like Beagle said, I too have tried HP'ing a couple, lapped out a mold, beagled a mold. Tried them in a model 19 S&W, RBH, Marlin 1894, Rossi 92, and different Taurus and Rossi's in 357 and 38 spl. Shot them fast and slow. I even swaged a gas check shank on some with no success. Best groups were 5-6" at 25 yds. They did tumble out of my Colt PPS in 38 S&W at 25 yds. I think I have 4 of these molds. Mark

[crowbeaner]

Spider; I have several of the 357446 moulds; the newer ones are undersized compared to the old Ideal one holers I prefer. I use the old ones, ladle pour, and use a mix of lino and WW metal. I size to .358" and use 50/50 lube. I shoot 5.0 of Unique or SR 4756 in the 38, and 2 loads in the .357- 11.0 and 13.5 of 2400. I had an old pre-27 that hated 2400 but loved WW296; I loaded them with 14.0 of 296 and mag primers. The old moulds cast boolits that are easily .360" as cast which allows a good sizer fit. In my experience, it's a gun thing. A couple of Pythons I had to work with wouldn't hit the broad side of the barn with that boolit design; they didn't like the 358156 either unless loaded in 38 cases over 13.5 of 2400 and seated to the lower crimp groove ala Skeeter Skelton's load. YMMV. CB.

[Whitespider]

I’m bringing this old thread back as sort of an update.

I picked up a Lyman two-holer #358477 since this old thread died, drops at 156-grains with my alloy. Today was the first chance I had to shoot some of them from the K38. I used the exact same alloy, lube and diameter as I used with the #357446. After running a cylinder full at my steel plates to kind of “season” the bore a bit, I sat down at the bench and promptly put 12-rounds into a 1¼-inch group at 25-yards, 10 of which cut a single ragged hole that measured about ¾-inch. Sooooo.... I grabbed some of the #357446’s and tried them again.... I couldn’t keep all six rounds on the paper, and I tried three times.

It ain’t the gun, it ain’t the shooter, it ain’t my home-made lube and it ain’t my casting technique; that #357446 just shoots horribly. I haven’t gotten around to trying the #357446 in my King Cobra yet, but I’ve got a feelin’ that mold will be showin’ up on eBay in the near future.

[lathesmith]

Well, I guess I have to say that my experience mirrors the "mediocre to terrible" results group, with this particular slug. I have seen some speculate the rear driving band is too thick, the molds are too small... I dunno, something sure ain't right, the 358446 was a lousy performer for me. I didn't mess with it very long, I have too many other designs that work great to waste much time toying with this dud. My vote goes to the 358429, 358311, 358477, 358430, ...and at least another 1/2 dozen other 357 molds that have always delivered decent groups for me.
lathesmith

[Bret4207]

That 477 is a good 'un for me too.

[mroliver77]

I picked up a 477 4 cav some years ago. It sat a while and then I read a Glen F article that praised it. I dug it out and tried it. It has become one of my favorite molds. I keep seeing the 446 for sale and think to pick one up. Mebbe not now. ;)
Jay

[catboat]

I just came back from the 50 ft indoor range. I tried a few loads in my 357 mag SW 586 (6" bbl), and my Springfield 1911a1 45 acp.

I cast about 300 Ideal 357446 SWC plain base bullets from straight wheelweights. Sized them with a .360" SAECO sizer (pretty much just lubed them-just barely touched the bullet with is dropping as cast at .3595"ish). I lubed them only to the lower lube groove (not both lube grooves). Lube was standard NRA 50/50 beeswax/alox. I then loaded them with 3.0 grains of Bullseye (with WW small standard primer) into RP 38 special cases. I would like to bump the Bullseye load up to the 3.5 grain area soon.

I loaded the 357446 bullet at two depths. 25 rounds were loaded "long" to the second lube groove, for an OAL of ~ 1.53". Another 25 rounds were loaded to the normal crimp groove, yielding an OAL of ~ 1.45". My S&W 586 has a 357 mag chamber, but I have to shoot a 38 special cases-as per range rules-which is why I loaded the bullet at two overall lengths.

I shot 5 shot groups, at 50 feet (17.3 yards), indoor. The barrel of my SW 586 was rested on a sandbag. I held the revolver with a 2 handed grip and shot single action. Sights were stock factory open, square blade rear, and factory ramp front.
Overall, I got 1.5 inch groups for those 5-shot groups using the Ideal 357446 SWC bullets. No significant group size was noted from either seating depth. I was curious if the longer loaded round would be more accurate in a 38 special case, loaded in a 357 magnum chamber. I didn't see it. No evidence of leading.

I've read a number of posts of inaccuracy from the 357446 bullet. Maybe my mold, being an older "Ideal-made" mold is a factor. I measured the as-cast bullet with a base ring diameter in solid .360" range, and the next two bands at .359+ish" diameter. The front band, in front of the crimping groove, measured 0.352" (sort of a "bore-rider" groove I guess). These measurements were from straight air-cooledwheelweights. The mold is a double cavity, unmodified mold. The cylinder throats on my SW 586 are a uniform 0.357". I have never slugged this pistol's bore, or forcing cone-so I don't know those measurements. My sized and lubed naked .360"ish diameter 357446 bullet will not pass through the throats of this revolver with a 5/16" dowel. I wish my throats were .358", to minimize the possibility of matching the bore diameter coming out of the .357" throat. Most cast bullet shooters like slightlt oversized bullets going down the bore. I'm one of them.

So, that's my range report of the Ideal 357446 cast bullet. So far, so good. I don't think I did anything "secret" or magical to the load. I used full-length sized yellow brass RP 38 special brass, that was at least 1x loaded. I didn't trim them or uniform the primer flash hole (yet, but I will-which could add to accuracy.).

Oh, and my 45 acp range report? I bought a used Springfield Armory 1911a1 blued, 5 inch bbl, 45 acp, 5 years ago. I don't know what was done to it. It has a MEC rear adjustable sight, and a non-factory front sight. Trigger is 4 lbs. Slide feels pretty tight to me (minimum play). It has a 2 piece full length recoil guide (which I don't like-a pain to field strip). I don't know if barrel is stock or aftermarket. I don't know what "poundage" recoil spring is in it-but it feels relatively stiff; guessing ~ 16+ lbs.

A quick outdoor, 25 yard off hand range test with factory Rem 230 FMJ this past October, proved the gun fed and ejected fine. Groups were in the 3-4" range at 25 yards, 2 handed offhand (non rested), quick shooting.

Tonight, I loaded up some recent cast SAECO #69 (200 grain SWC flat base) from wheelweights. 4.0 grains Bullseye. WW Large Pistol primers. OAL 1.23" Taper crimp at mouth @ 0.469". RP cases were trimmed (Lee 45 acp trimmer) and flash hold uniformed. Pistol was fired over sandbags, with bottom of muzzle on sandbag support, using two hand hold.

50 ft results were great. 5 shot groups ran 1.0-1.5 inches. Fired 50 rounds (10 groups). I was getting 4 shots in a one hole cluster, and one shot a bit out. One group was a single ragged hole (3/4"). I was learning how to hold this pistol. I found I was pushing down non-uniformly with my grip, causing the front end contact area "in strong contact" with the rest. When I noticed this condition, and relaxed the forward strain with my grip, I shot best. I was VERY happy with the results. I think I found my 45 acp 50 foot load for winter postals.

As for me, so far so good with the Ideal 357466 bullet.

[Dale53]

catboat;
It is always interesting for me to read others "Road Tests".

I would suggest that if you increase the .38 Special load with the 358446 to 3.5 grs of Bullseye it will shoot more accurately. That is still a rather light load but should be excellent for target use.

In fact, using 148 gr dbl ended Wadcutters (H&G #251) I actually load 3.5 grs of Bullseye loaded with the first band out of the case (I taper crimp on the rear of the front band). This gives me well under 1" groups at 25 yards, reliably.

This target was shot standing at 25 yards with my S&W Model 520 with a Simmons Red Dot sight with that wadcutter load:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/JavelinaTarget.jpg

Regarding your .45 ACP load, I have several 1911's and two S&W Model 625's. Using EXACTLY your load (my "go to" powder choice for target use) I have shot tens of thousands of those with great satisfaction. Since I started using MiHec moulds, I have changed the bullet to Mihec's clone of the H&G #68 flat base 200 gr SWC sized at .452" and the alloy is WW's+2% tin. This is relatively common performance with this load from my revolvers (standing at 25 yards):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img095.jpg

As a matter that may be of some interest, I find that most any powder in the "fast burning" area seems to work equally well as long as I get relatively close the the velocity of that 4.0 grs of Bullseye (Bullseye, Win 231, Dupont PB, and Dupont 5066). My primers of choice are Federal LP but I have also had good results from Winchester, Remington, and CCI.

Also, for those who might be interested, those loads in both .38 Special AND .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim are just dandy loads for edible small game.

Dale53

[excess650]

Whitespider,
I've not tried the 357446, but do have a NIB double cavity in the old grey and black Lyman box. Your results give me pause to even casting with it, but I'll check its dimensions.

As for shooting indoors and light loads, or at least light recoiling loads, you might want to try the Lee 38-105 SWC. My K38 would print these at sub 2" at 50 yards (back when I could see the sights better) over 5gr of Bullseye, and numerous grey squirrels were taken with head shots. That K38, which I still have, outshot my "Factory Tuned" Python from the Colt Custom Shop. I never got too attached to the Python, so it went down the road long ago.

I shot in an indoor PPC league, and quite often I shot the 105gr. I don't recall the powder charge, but am thinking around 3gr Bullseye. I cast 'em as fast as I could with a double cavity and just used LLA for lube. I didn't waste much time looking for defects as I was trying to get enough cast and loaded. I KNOW that a lot of what should have been rejects(torn sprues and rounded bases) were shot, but even at 25 yards my groups were good enough to keep me at the top of the league in "snubby" (2-1/2" M19) and "open" (6" slab sided Shilen with Barstow rib on M64). Other bullets that I shot at times were Zero(?) 100gr DEWC, and 148gr HBWC. More often though, I was shooting my own 105 SWCs as I shot up to 20K rounds per year. The tapered nose of the 105 SWC made it easier to line up speed loaders for reloads.

[Guesser]

I have been casting with an Ideal 357446, sizing .358, tried different lubes, even candle wax(vanilla scented) and Bag Balm. In 38, crimped in the crimp groove it was "OK" in my 3 Colt Officers Models, did not work well in any 357 revolver, Colt, Ruger, or S&W when loaded in 38 cases. I cast soft 50/50 ww/pb. I'm going to try some at moderate 357 velocities, 1050-1100, and see what happens. The 1st edition Lyman cast bullet handbook had good reviews for this bullet in 357 mag. when driven a little faster. Several said that it worked for them in 38. I'm still playing, that's what I do!!!!!!

[TCLouis]

Reading this thread makes me feel better. I shot up about 20 lbs of the 357446 boolit and never . . . NEVER found a load that would shoot accurately.

[EDK]

Maybe there is a reason that it has been discontinued?

[MtGun44]

Sounds like something wrong in the design. I wasn't familiar with it, looked it up in Castpics.
Pretty short nose, maybe the base is too thick, heck I don't know - but if that many people
couldn't find a good group with it, I'd stay away from it.

Lyman 358429 loaded hot, 358477 mild to wild, RCBS 358 150 KT (now called 358 150 SWC)
and Lee 358 158 RF have been really excellent for me in multiple guns with multiple
powder charges. I would say that 477 or RCBS 150 are THE most accurate with the largest
number of different powder charges. 429 and Lee RF seem to really do well with a BUNCH
of H110/W296 --- full steam ahead!

I recently upgraded to a 4 cav 358477 and turned out a big bunch which have not yet been
through the Star. This may wind up being my favorite plinking load for my S&W Model 14s.

BTW, a RCBS 358 150 KT will almost perfectly fit into a 358477 mold cavity, the square bottomed
lube groove is the main difference on the RCBS "almost a Keith" design.

OTOH, my H&G 50 (wadcutter) is a real shooter at mild velocities and shorter ranges, too.

I always recommend sticking to "known good" boolit designs and lubes. Life is short and
if the last 50 people that tried a particular mold found it to produce accurate boolits, your
odds are increased a lot. Same with lubes - I'm sure it is fun to experiment, but somehow
I just can't find the time to fiddle with lubes when I have several that just seem to work
across the board.

Bill

[GP100man]

It`s a shooter in my GPs , but ya gotta hit the gas !!!!

8grs. of 800x is the load for me !!! For 1250fps out of a 6" barrel.

I put 30 in a 4" group at 50 yds , wish i saved the target or took a pic !!!

My boolits run in the 10.5 bhn , I tried to harden em a bit with 50/50 isotope & WW alloy & push em with H-110 , it did`nt work !!
Dropped back to the 800x , it helped but it were`nt as good as the softer boolit .

I got 2 2holers & a 1 holer , thinkin of sending the 1 holer to Buckshot for a HP conversion ???

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/357446.jpg

[Chili]

What is the difference between the 357446 and 357446A?

[GP100man]

Probably a production run of molds .I`ve found the difference !!!COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BOOLIT !!!

The boolit in the first pic is a IDEAL 357446 & does excellent between 1,000-1250fps

I have a Lyman 357446 DW & I`ll have to admit I have`nt developed it into loads as intensily as the IDEAL boolit .

This may be why some report excellent results while others have given up ???

I do plan on some more R&D on the 2 designs though !!!

Both drop very close to .360" ,I have a SC that does . With my alloy & a .358" sizer they measure .3585" 48hrs. after casting & sizing .

I`ve lapped the throats on my GPs to .3585"

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0489.jpg

[Leadmelter]

I hope I have some luck with my boolits from my 446 as I just made a bunch (500+) to start with. I loaded some into 357 mag with 13.5 gr 2400.
I will let you know what happens when I send them down range.
Happy New Years! A New Years full of trigger pulls to all!

Gerry

[BCall]

I had to try some as well. I had an old 357446 hollowpoint mold I had acquired some time back. it was missing the HP pin and had been sitting here for some time. I finally sent it to Buckshot for a new pin and got it back the other day. Ran off 50 of these this afternoon. Couldn't get then to fill with the bottom pour, so I went to a ladle and they came out great. I will load them over 2400 as well and hopefully test them next week.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/blcall/SN851268.jpg

[GP100man]

Shot these in a drizzle , 25yds , wrists laying on a towel .

Boolits were still warm when I lubed em !

Pushed 1 off the Ideal target, I knew it when it broke !!

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0492.jpg

[ironhead7544]

Is that the bullet Elmer designed for the short cylindered N frame S&W .357 Mag?

[GP100man]

My understanding is it was designed "in house" during the IDEAL days that would involve John Barlow ???

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=24

[Ed_Shot]

First post here, recently started casting/reloading again after a 30 yr absence. Most all my equipmet held up well in a footlocker in the tool shed for 30 yr. My Lyman molds that were packed in auto greese survived like new. My Lyman 357446 single cavity was not so lucky. I never used it much because gas checks used to be cheap for my 358156. The serious rust on the 357446 made it totally unusable. I soaked it for 30 min in some Klean Strip Phosphoric Prep&Etch which I already had from Home Depot and it came out like a new penny. Yes it took off the blue but the mold casts great. I use WW + 2% tin and the 357446 drops at 162.5 gr and measures exactly .360 on all bands. As-cast I cannot push the 357446 through the cylinder forcing cones of my 6" Security-Six. Sized to .358 I can force it through with firm thumb pressure. I use Lyman Super Moly lube.

I'm not a great pistol shot but I can tell when things work well. My Lyman 358495 over 5.0 gr SR-4756 tries to group in one hole in spite of me. This was the standard I set for the 357446 and after several loads I was ready to give up when I found the Skeeter Skelton article "My Friend, The .357 (Part 2)" at ShootingTimes.com. One of his favorite mid-range .357 loads was the 357446 over 5.0 gr Red Dot (he used a 38 Spl case to save money). I verified the load (for a .357 case) with the folks at Alliant Powder and this past week at the range it shot GREAT!! easily duplicating the tight groups I could shoot with the 358495. Don't want to sound like a Red Dot salesman but my 358156 w/o gc also did great with 5.0 gr Red Dot. I was having such a blast I didn't save any for my Marlin 1894C.....guess I'll have to back to the range.

[ronbo]

Is there a difference in the Lyman and Ideal brand bullet 357446. I picked up an Ideal 4 cavity cheap and have cast some bullets with it but not shot them yet.

[Dale53]

Is there a difference in the Lyman and Ideal brand bullet 357446. I picked up an Ideal 4 cavity cheap and have cast some bullets with it but not shot them yet.

Theoretically, there should be no difference. However, anyone who has been using Ideal and Lyman moulds for a number of years will tell you that Lyman has changed a number of different designs while maintaining the same numbers. This can actually get a feller or gal in to trouble when it materially changes the seating depth.

I just mention this to alert people to the fact that data with one person's bullet may not be the same as another person's bullet.

Dale53

[Trey45]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I have an old Ideal 357446 2 cav mould I'm casting with.
Has anyone tried a plain base gas check with this bullet? I see where more people are having bad luck than good with this bullet, but the common thread in the good seems to be velocity.

I'm planning on using this bullet in 357 magnum and running it fast. I'm hoping someone has maybe tried a plain base gas check with this and hopefully improved accuracy? Or am I barking up the wrong tree. I don't mind experimenting, but if this has been tried and found to be the wrong method it would save me some time.

[garym1a2]

I am hoping for better results. I came across a 357446DW 4 banger recently and hav not tried it yet.

[mattw]

I shoot a good number of the 358439 Ideal HP's from 38's and 357's. Works very well as does the old Lyman 358156 HP.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Years back I acquired a #357466 single cavity in a trade deal. I also couldn`t get a load to kjeep a cylinder full from my K 14 on the side of a barn! I had heard this was a finicky mold to use and to try top loads from a manual. Well it still was odd so I sent it off to `Buckshot` for a HP job that he did, not anymore though. That made the difference in where the boolits wanted to roost, the boolets weighed now in the mid 150`s range.Robert

[mattw]

Now you all are going to make me dig around the shop this weekend. I think the 358156HP is the same long nose Keith bullet with a factory HP. The weight would be about right and the 156 is definitely a long nose design. My 446 is and Ideal and the 156 is a Lyman, but I believe a very early Lyman. I do cast a bunch of each every other winter and they really only see duty in 686's, 627, 1894C and Contender. I do not load them in 38 specials. I do know that both have enough meat to size easily to .359 and I always use the crimp groove as it seems to shoot best with a good roll crimp.

[Harry O]

My 357446 is not quite as accurate as my 358477 or 358429. It is close, though. The 358477 is slightly more accurate at less than 50 yards. The 358429 is slightly more accurate at more than 50 yards. All are acceptably accurate at any range, however.

[KCSO]

You might want to start with the gun as over 2" groups at 25 yards from a rest is not real good. Rested the K38 should do that or better at 50 yards. Make sure all the leading is out of the barrel and see if the groups shrink any.

[Walks]

Reading these posts has answered a question I never asked my DAD. Why did we never use this bullet ? We used TONS of the KEITH #358429 loaded with .38-44 charges in the .38SPL case. We also used it in .357MAG cases in COLT & RUGER Sixguns, and the S&W model 19. For a light plinking load we used the #358477 over 3.5grs of BULLSEYE. I have never read in any LYMAN Manual who designed this bullet.

The hot .357MAG Load was the THOMPSON Gas Check Bullet #358156 over a max charge of 2400.

I guess my DAD tried the #358446 and discarded it, before I came along. I've read somewhere it was designed as the original bullet for the .357MAG. If so this may be part of the reason for the OLD stories about leading in the first .357MAG loadings.

[gwpercle]

I could never get the 357446 or the 358429 to group as well . I thought the Keith designed 358429 was going to be the top dog....but it wasn't ! Maybe I need to try these with 2400 powder and load them heavy.

The accuracy champ, with midrange loads , has turned out to be #358432 in the 160 gr. ( that # was also made in 148 gr. )
much to my surprise as you don't hear much about this one. I snagged a 1 cavity off E-bay for cheap and after some testing and more testing was pleasantly surprised...every 38 spcl and 357 magnum I owned shot neat and tidy small groups with it . 15 shots from a rest at 25 yards will make a 1 3/4 inch ragged hole ! NOE still makes it in 160 grain and it's a winner in the accuracy department . When I saw NOE had a 3 cavity of this design I ordered it in a flash.
This one has become my most used and loaded boolit .
Gary

[Echo]

Plus one for Beagles post. Too many folks have had MUCH trouble with the -446 boolit. Sell the mold and buy a -429, -477, or several other good mold designs. Leave the hassles up to those who love hassles. We aren't put here on this big green lifeboat to waste time on trivia...

[marek313]

You can add me to the list of unlucky 446 owners. Couldnt get it to shoot straight to save my life. Ended up using Lee 356-125-2R PCed in 38S brass and Lee 358-158-RF in 357mag. I also have Lyman 148gr DEWC mold somewhere but I dont shoot that much neither.

I should probably sell it on fleebay. Maybe someone else would have better luck then me.

[joel45acp]

My Smith 686 6" shoots the -446 lights out. I read all the posts of folks having a fit with this mould but it's been the most accurate mould to date for me. I'm using Unique powder pushing the pill at 1165fps. I took my first handgun kill at 23yds with this boolit this pas wknd.