I water-dropped my softpoints! DOH!

[superior]

I made some beautiful softpoints the other day and without thinking, I water-dropped them.. I know....what a dum dum!...Did I defeat the whole purpose of making them? I'll be cranking them ( Lee c312-185-1r) out of my jungle carbine at about 2000fps. I had deer hunting in mind for them. Alloy is ww with a little tin added. Will they still expand reasonably? The whole nose, right up to the first driving band is pure lead. I only made 20 of them.

[Ole]

I think you're ok. Pure lead does not harden with water quenching.

Try them in a test medium and find out their terminal performance.

I would suggest you do that even if you hadn't water dropped them.

[superior]

Thanks, Ole!! I knew someone here would know the answer.. Now I'm glad I water-dropped them since the hard base wont deform under high velocity conditions and will continue to drive the mushroom through the medium. I suspect the hardened base will resist leading as well. I have no doubt in my military mind that at 2000fps, the soft nose will expand nicely. I've torture tested these boolits with pliers and banging the noses sideways in a vice. I can't seem to get the nose to separate from the base. Very strong design if I say so myself. I've already loaded them up so thanks again!

[Ole]

The only thing I would worry about is what happens at the point where the two different alloys meet. You might have the nose break off when it hits your deer.

If I was going to make a soft nosed bullet, I would water quench some 1/1 WW/PB with a good amount of tin added.

Then anneal the nose with the base of the bullet in a pan of water. This would have the effect of the negating the water quenching for the nose, yet leave the driving bands quenched..

I've heard about people doing this. It takes practice, but I think it's worth the effort if you want to hunt with soft nose/hard driving band cast bullets.

[snaggdit]

OK, I'll bite. How did you pour half pure then the rest WW? Didn't the points harden in the mold before you got the driving part poured in? I would agree with Ole and be concerned about them separating. I see you tried to test them under different conditions, but 0-2000 fps and 70,000 rpm might be a different animal.

[Ole]

OK, I'll bite. How did you pour half pure then the rest WW? Didn't the points harden in the mold before you got the driving part poured in? I would agree with Ole and be concerned about them separating. I see you tried to test them under different conditions, but 0-2000 fps and 70,000 rpm might be a different animal.

Snag-

The ammosmith dude uses two different alloys to make a soft nose/hard band lead bullet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrPKivrETZs

[snaggdit]

Pretty interesting process. The fusing step is ingenious. I learn something every day! Thanks.

[Tom W.]

I gotta try that.....

[Bob Krack]

I am not able/willing to watch the youtube thing but can say from experience. Take a small round ball of pure lead, hopefully slightly smaller than mould diameter, drop it into - or place it in the mould nose, then pour the alloy into the mould. The .311 ball does real well in the .357 and .44-.45 moulds.

The alloy at 700 or so where most of us cast, will (should) form a good bond with the pure lead ball. Using a lead ball assures some weight constancy from boolit to boolit.

Bob

[Bret4207]

Thanks, Ole!! I knew someone here would know the answer.. Now I'm glad I water-dropped them since the hard base wont deform under high velocity conditions and will continue to drive the mushroom through the medium. I suspect the hardened base will resist leading as well. I have no doubt in my military mind that at 2000fps, the soft nose will expand nicely. I've torture tested these boolits with pliers and banging the noses sideways in a vice. I can't seem to get the nose to separate from the base. Very strong design if I say so myself. I've already loaded them up so thanks again!

Based on my observations the water dropped WW alloys still deform or mushroom, especially at the velocity you're talking about. You're making the lead harder, but it's still ductile. How much it will deform depends on a variety of things, mostly what the boolit hit.

I also question is a harder base section will actually resist leading as fit seems to be the key as far as that goes. Some here have ventured the opinion a harder alloy can induce leading if the boolit is undersize to start with as the alloy will be more resistant to obturation. It's that same ductility that's in question.

If I may offer any advice, I'd be more and more attentive to boolit fit as my speed increases and boolits get harder. Ask any of the hardcast proponents here, like 44man, and I'm sure he'll tell you the hard boolit alloy won't make up for poor fit.

[superior]

I used a flat bottom ladle, floating on the melt and dropped a 1/4 oz. stick- on ww in the ladle.
As the pure lead ww melted, the glue burned off and stuck to one side. I then poured the clean lead into the mold. I then dipped into the harder straight ww and filled the cavity the rest of the way, with about a 10 second delay between both pours. The finished boolit was then water quenched. Later I took a sample boolit and tried various ways to make it fail. I put it in a vice and hammered the nose sideways and it stayed together. It seemed to pass the torture test with flying colors. As for leading, I've never had an issue before using straight ww at 2000fps with lithium grease/ paraffin 50/50- pan lubed so I dont think it will be a problem with the soft noses.

[Wayne Smith]

Read BruceB's sticky. He worked this out several years ago. You don't have to cool the nose, the pure lead is more dense than the alloy and your alloy base will float on top of the pure, creating a merge between the two that is as strong as the boolit.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I agree, no problem, the nose won't harden [ pure lead ] and the water quinched rear of the boolit should be just fine up to 2000fps , is sized correctly. Try em out , let us know how they shoot.

[Lead melter]

I also question is a harder base section will actually resist leading as fit seems to be the key as far as that goes. Some here have ventured the opinion a harder alloy can induce leading if the boolit is undersize to start with as the alloy will be more resistant to obturation. It's that same ductility that's in question.


If you don't believe this, try shooting some Laser-Cast boolits at magnum velocity. I did and I won't again.

[leadman]

I've used the round ball method, works well. I've shot softnosed boolits to 2,600 fps in an '06. At that velocity the bore needs to be brushed after 3 or 4 rounds so it should be good for a hunt. I plan on carrying a Bore Snake in my pack just in case.

[Bret4207]

If you don't believe this, try shooting some Laser-Cast boolits at magnum velocity. I did and I won't again.

I was trying to be diplomatic- undersized and "hardcast" = leading in my book!

[sqlbullet]

You can remove any heat treatment from water dropping by heating the slugs to 350° - 400° in the oven of one hour, then allowing them to cool slowly. This will remove any effects the original quenching had on hardness.

[Ole]

You can remove any heat treatment from water dropping by heating the slugs to 350° - 400° in the oven of one hour, then allowing them to cool slowly. This will remove any effects the original quenching had on hardness.

Just don't let the wife catch you doing this. :-?