Cast iron dutch oven w/ hot plate

[d_striker]

I've searched but couldn't find anything specifically answering this question.

Made my first ingots today. I used a 5qt cast iron dutch oven with my MSR Whisperlight backpacking stove. I set up a grate over the top of it to support the pot.

Will a 1000 watt hot plate get the cast iron hot enough to smelt in? Does anyone here use this method?

[exile]

I would love to know the answer to that question as well.

exile

[Nora]

My first attempts years ago were with a hot plate. I couldn't get it hot enough to show any signs of melting. Sense then I've been using a Coleman single burner (duel fuel) which easily supports the weight of a 1 1/2 qt cast iron pan and 10lbs of lead. In a pinch I've used a Coleman Propane stove, however it really chews threw the fuel. 150 lbs smelting will take 1/4 gal of gas vs two 1 lb cylinders.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

IMHO, if you are smelting any large quantity of lead/alloy/wheel weights, you need a lot more heat than you will get in a large cast iron pot with the small camper stove you mention or the 1000w hot plate. If you have a small pot and don't use to much product in it at once, should work. This will be a very slow process.

As suggested, a Coleman stove or similar will work. A propane burner like the ones used for plumber pots and turkey fryers/fish fryers will work way better. If you don't want to go that route, some folks like to build a brick fire place out doors, a simple one that will support your pot and give you room to build a fire under it works, wood or charcoal for fuel.

I hope this helps, good luck. Search threads for smelting, lots of info on this subject.

[Shiloh]

I've searched but couldn't find anything specifically answering this question.

Made my first ingots today. I used a 5qt cast iron dutch oven with my MSR Whisperlight backpacking stove. I set up a grate over the top of it to support the pot.

Will a 1000 watt hot plate get the cast iron hot enough to smelt in? Does anyone here use this method?

I don't think it will get hot enough for anything other than small amounts of lead.
Certainly not enough for a dutch oven full of wheel weights.

My buddy uses a dutch oven turkey fryer set up. and the results on a hot summer day are better than a cool day in the fall. Still melts in the fall but it takes longer.

You need a lot of BTU's to melt a kettle full of wheel weights.

Shiloh

[monadnock#5]

It's not that the hot plate won't work. It will, given enough time. Watching paint dry is almost as much fun though.

This past weekend I was alloying WW and range scrap ingots on a hot plate. As I watched the first batch begin to melt, I spied a MAPP gas cylinder out of the corner of my eye. It wasn't very long thereafter that I was hosing the ingots down with blue flame. Talk about fast. From solid to fluxable in less than 10 minutes. Next time I'll save some money and use propane cylinders, but I'm spoiled now. The guys that smelt with a plumbers furnace on the bottom, and a weed burner from the top are most definitely on to something.

[d_striker]

IMHO, if you are smelting any large quantity of lead/alloy/wheel weights, you need a lot more heat than you will get in a large cast iron pot with the small camper stove you mention or the 1000w hot plate. If you have a small pot and don't use to much product in it at once, should work. This will be a very slow process.

As suggested, a Coleman stove or similar will work. A propane burner like the ones used for plumber pots and turkey fryers/fish fryers will work way better. If you don't want to go that route, some folks like to build a brick fire place out doors, a simple one that will support your pot and give you room to build a fire under it works, wood or charcoal for fuel.

I hope this helps, good luck. Search threads for smelting, lots of info on this subject.

My MSR whisperlite puts out a hotter, more intense flame than my Coleman two burner stove. MSR puts out a "jet" of fire. Coleman puts out more of a lazy blue flame. Both use white gas which is expensive, right now.

[Shiloh]

It's not that the hot plate won't work. It will, given enough time. Watching paint dry is almost as much fun though.

This past weekend I was alloying WW and range scrap ingots on a hot plate. As I watched the first batch begin to melt, I spied a MAPP gas cylinder out of the corner of my eye. It wasn't very long thereafter that I was hosing the ingots down with blue flame. Talk about fast. From solid to fluxable in less than 10 minutes. Next time I'll save some money and use propane cylinders, but I'm spoiled now. The guys that smelt with a plumbers furnace on the bottom, and a weed burner from the top are most definitely on to something.

If you help it along with a torch, and keep it covered, there may be enough heat to keep it going. It takes A LOT of heat to melt a iron kettle full of wheel weights.

Gonna use an acetylene plumbers torch on the top of my buddy's dutch oven/turkey fryer next time we smelt.

SHiloh

[Old Ironsights]

RE: Hotplates...

Here is a (bad) pic of a hotplate melt:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMAG0068.jpg

I was bored and having an OC moment over a big pile of poorly formed/unstackable pb ingots, so I filled up this stainless steel pot & had at it.

This stainless pot holds about 60# of melt and the 1000w plate will melt that 60# to a pourable temp in about an hour +/-

I have NEVER been able to get cast iron hot enough on a hot plate to make it work though. I'm guessing the cast iron has too much mass and bleeds-off too much heat.

With hotplates, stick to stainless steel cookware.

[Willbird]

The Dutch oven radiates too much heat. This to a degree may be because it is typically BLACK. The shiny stainless probably does not radiate as much heat. My HF Dutch oven on an $8.95 hot plate will make WW mushy but not melt.

Bill

[Shiloh]

There is your answer. Use stainless!! Sounds like a trip to the thrift store is in your future.

Shiloh

[d_striker]

I think I'll try it with cast iron and a propane torch on top to melt it. Once it reaches solidus, I would think that the hot plate might be able to maintain. I guess we'll see.

[jdgabbard]

I wondered this myself the other day. Went down to the local cast iron cookware store, bought a SMALL skillet and a 1000w 120v hot plate. Half-melted a single WW in the bottom of the pot. But that was it.

[monadnock#5]

It was a stainless sauce pan that I was using for alloying. I agree with those that are trying to point you in the direction of stainless.

Here's something I already knew: Cast iron is a dross magnet. The pores in the metal trap lead and dross which form a foundation for more layers of lead and dross to cling to. There's a false bottom on my iron pot about a half inch thick made up of soldered dross. I've fluxed heavily, scraped on it, and soaked it for a week with penetrating oil and no dice. The only method I've found that will remove it is a cold chisel and hammer. At that, I have to whang on it hard enough that I fear cracking the pot. What really bothers me though is that I know that when my smelt is up to heat and I'm fluxing the melt just prior to pouring ingots, what I'm really doing is disturbing the dross bed so that I'm stirring dross into the melt as I’m trying to remove it. It's a vicious cycle. If anyone knows how to beat it, and save my cast iron pot, I'm all ears.

Here's something else I learned this past weekend: Before alloying, I melted down the rest of the roof flashing I had on hand and made ingots with it. After the first batch was poured, there was a layer of dross on the bottom of the pan which scraped up easily. I left the dross in the pot and melted the next batch. While stirring and fluxing the second batch, the sound of grit scratching across the bottom of the pan could be heard. Repeated fluxing wouldn’t remove that sound, so I poured that batch out. When I scraped the pan down the next time, I did something different. I dumped the dross and lead out onto my bench. After the third batch was melted, I dumped the dross and lead from the bench into the pan. What was supposed to melt melted, and what was supposed to float floated. Problem solved. No more grit.

Go ahead and try your cast iron pot. Sooner or later though, you’ll give stainless a try and find happiness. If I could find a stainless pot that fit my plumbers furnace, had a heavy duty bail and maybe pouring spouts 90° to the bail, I’d take that cast pot and hang it on the back porch. It would look really good with marigolds growing from it. Or maybe petunias.........yeah!! petunias, that’s the ticket!

[JIMinPHX]

You can do a dutch oven full of ww on a hotplate, but you need to insulate it well & you need to have some time on your hands.

[Old Ironsights]

RE Cast Iron = Dross...

Yep... The only thing I use Cast Iron for any more is ladling/final pour.

I have a cast Iron pot with pour spout that would theoretically let me do about 50# of melt at a time... but it's a PITA to handle and doesn't work nearly as well for melting as my cheap chinese stainless steel stock pots.

When the stock pots get too low to ladel properly, I pour the last 20# or so into the pre-warmed cast iron pot then use its pour spout to fill the last 2-3 ingot batchess without a ladle...

[Nora]

Here's something I already knew: Cast iron is a dross magnet. The pores in the metal trap lead and dross which form a foundation for more layers of lead and dross to cling to. There's a false bottom on my iron pot about a half inch thick made up of soldered dross. I've fluxed heavily, scraped on it, and soaked it for a week with penetrating oil and no dice. The only method I've found that will remove it is a cold chisel and hammer.

I'm not sure what I may or may not be doing different but I haven't had this happen yet. By dross, I presume that you are talking about the powdery crap that forms in the bottom? The cast iron skillet/ pan that I've got (holds about 10-15 lbs) has been around for a wile. I bought it new and pre-seasoned, have alway emptied it completely, and hit it with a wire brush before putting it away.

But then again, maybe I'm just doing a hole lot less smelting than most are. The norm for me is getting 150 - 200lbs of ww every other month. I don't use it for anything else but to ingot ww's either. By the looks of some of the pot shown around the forum I'm way behind the curve and should step up production immediately! [smilie=f:

[HABCAN]

Long story short? Yes, it works fine!!

For years I have smelted in my opened garage any time the Spring/Fall temp gets above 20F with no strong wind. Did sixty-two ingots in two sessions (about 3 hours total time, including the 2 start-ups) early this week using my lone Lyman ingot mold.

I use a cheap cast-iron saucepan from China, bought new in the Dollar Store for $10.00. It has a cast-iron lid, a wooden handle on one side and an open eye on the lip opposite the handle. It sits on a $20.00 1000W electric hotplate bought new on sale in the local hardware. I do not put up any sort of windscreens: the lid suffices. First smelt takes about 25 minutes from plug-in to flux time in our 'cool' temps. I always leave ~1/4" of lead in it when I quit smelting so as to have some early liquid to get the lateset batch going. The smelt when 'done' fills 2/3 of the saucepan, and I can cautiously lift it with the handle and a hook through the opposing eye to pour at least 8 and often 12 ingots which quickly set in the single Lyman mold on the concrete floor. Then I add a few handfulls of weights to the pot, put the lid back on and go sit down and have a smoke.

It may not sound like 'production', but I stay ahead of casting requirements for 3+ avid boolit shooters. 250 ingots = 10,000 boolits. At that rate a month's smelting yields more than I'll probably shoot in the rest of my life, but I keep doin' it fer th' younguns. Got 100's of ingots left from last year's smelting and about 1,200 lbs. WW's yet to smelt, with more coming in. Better get at it.

[Dale53]

You can buy a $30.00 fish fryer from Bass Pro (turkey fryer) and a $20.00 Dutch oven from Harbor Freight and do 650 lbs in an afternoon. That is INEXPENSIVE and it WORKS, every time.

Seems easy to me...(not that I am opinionated or anything[smilie=1:).

Dale53

[monadnock#5]

I'm not sure what I may or may not be doing different but I haven't had this happen yet. By dross, I presume that you are talking about the powdery crap that forms in the bottom? The cast iron skillet/ pan that I've got (holds about 10-15 lbs) has been around for a wile. I bought it new and pre-seasoned, have alway emptied it completely, and hit it with a wire brush before putting it away. [smilie=f:

My plumbers pot is the same texture and finish inside and out. Cast cookware that I've looked at is much smoother on the inside than the outside. There are many, many different types of cast iron. The better finish on the cookware may be a function of the alloy used, the casting method or final machining. I don't know. I think the difference you and I are experiencing is all in the interior finish of our smelters.

It makes a difference also in what you're smelting. WW's are about 10:1 good stuff to bad. If all you ever smelt is WW, it will be a long time before you notice the crud buildup. Range scrap OTOH, is the exact (+/-) opposite ratio. A significant amount of dross (sand mostly) has to be removed before the melted lead separates and floats what's left. In that scenario, one day of smelting will graphically illustrate for you what I've been experiencing.

[poisonivie]

Has anybody tried an aluminum dutch oven? I've got one and was wondering about it.

[Dale53]

This comes up from time to time and is a REALLY bad idea. Aluminum melts at 1200 degrees and heating it up to 650-800 degrees REALLY lowers it's strength. There have been reports of a collapse of an aluminum dutch oven with potentially disastrous results (how about 100 lbs + of melted alloy all over your feet?)

DO NOT DO IT!

Dale53

[Slow Elk 45/70]

NO, NO , NO, Never!!! Stay with cast Iron , Stainless Steel will work, but it will also give up after a lot of smelting operations. But not the way an Aluminum pot can.

Be Safe, Not Sorry , Cast doesn't cost that much.