Fat 30??

[slug]

I see that someone had a group buy mould for a "fat 30" for sale, but it has since been sold.
Was this a group buy for a six holer .303/7,65mm bullet? Could someone direct me to the dimensions? Is there any chance of another group buy of this one?
TIA.
Stew

[Buckshot]

...........See it here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97

It was a 6 holer for fat 30 calibers, ie: Jap, Argentine, Brit, Rooski. Like those or any others outside the .300x.308" type stuff.

It IS about time for another I suspect.

.................Buckshot

[David R]

I agree. I was going to buy that single one for sale, but $s are a little short, and I just bought a 30-30 that needed dies.........

David

[Bret4207]

Great design if you can find one. Works good for me in the 7.65 Argie with high hopes for the 303 Brit.

[trooperdan]

If anyone is ready to honcho another run of these, I'd be in for one.

[PatMarlin]

And don't forget it's a great boolit for Marlins too.. :lovebooli

[Pepe Ray]

Can anyone tell me the approx. wgt,/alloy?
I might be interested if it heavy enough.
Pepe Ray

[Buckshot]

................My sample cast of 12 BHN alloy runs 183grs. .315" on the bands and .3034" on the nose. Cast of 16 BHN and you can add another .0005" or so to it. Depending on the antimony content possiby a bit more.

.................Buckshot

[Rick N Bama]

I'll take 1 as well.

Rick

[kenjuudo]

And don't forget it's a great boolit for Marlins too.. :lovebooli

Pat, if they fit all Marlins ya wouldn't have your Fat 30. My bore is .300x.308.

jim

[PatMarlin]

-So then you'd have a "skinny-30"... :mrgreen:


How's the saying go?...

"The only thing a fat girl can show me is where a skinny girl lives".. :mrgreen:

[35 Whelen]

I'm new at this and not sure I understand "soup can" and "honcho", but I'd like to get a "fat 30" for my Enfield that'd drop from the mould at .315"-.316" w/ WW alloy. Count me in if it's gonna happen.
35 Whelen

[Buckshot]

I'm new at this and not sure I understand "soup can" and "honcho", but I'd like to get a "fat 30" for my Enfield that'd drop from the mould at .315"-.316" w/ WW alloy. Count me in if it's gonna happen.
35 Whelen

HA!..............."Soup Can" is the coined phrase for the little Lee C309-113F. Pretty much a set of driving bands, crimp groove and a short FN, that weights about 113 to 116grs depending upon mould and alloy. Since there isn't much to it, there isn't much to go wrong. A kind of favorite amongst many of the current plumbum pourers.

"Honcho" is the name that through use has kind of attached itself to the poor schmuck, er, ah.............gentleman who finally sucks it up and decides to host the group buy. At that point, this rather daring individual gets to cast the tie breaking vote, should the design be hung up on some feature. Commonly GC or no GC, nose shape or somesuch. He is the one who places the timeline for ending the deal and decides how long it will run.

He also collects the checks, reporting those recieved, and posts dire warnings of the impending end of the deal. He forwards the bucks and final drawing to Lee. At this point it's half done. Then he gets the large boxes full of moulds back from Lee. Now he gets to label them and haul them to the Post Office and listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth of those postal patrons in line BEHIND him, as he hands over 25 to 65 moulds going to 25 to 65 different places.

Smart Honchos have evolved to the point that depending upon the size of the buy, he delivers them in 2 or 3 batches to the PO. This means lighter cartons to lug in, allows him more opportunity to better get to know the PO counter help, and also has a new batch of postal patron BEHIND him in line.

You might make some money at this as someone behind you may offer you $10 to swap numbers, as they eyeball the 25 boxes you're there to mail.

That's all a Honcho really does. No big. The list of Honcho's is long and illustrious. Some have even done it 2 or 3 times.

..................Buckshot

[35 Whelen]

Thanks for clearing all that up Buckshot. With regards to the Fat 30, I'm interested in a .315-.316", 170-180+ gr. cast from, boolit, flat or round nose, and gas checked WW .
35w

[Urny]

I got one of the first buy, and like it just fine. Need another one though, so count me in if this thing flies again.

[fatnhappy]

If this flies I'm in.

[Char-Gar]

I missed the first, so if this one makes...I am in

[Pepe Ray]

YEP!
Me too, count me in for one. Pepe Ray

[trooperdan]

Looks like we have about 8 guys interested... and no honcho yet! Hope someone will step forward to run another buy.

[charlie45]

Thats just what my mk III needs so please add me also.

[45 2.1]

If you added a thousandth to all the diameter dimensions, it would be better.

[tall grass]

Folks

I'd be interested if it will shoot in a Marlin 30-30. Got a 200 Revelation (Western-Auto) Marlin a couple of months ago. Got to get some cast shot through it now.

Jim

[45 2.1]

Folks

I'd be interested if it will shoot in a Marlin 30-30. Got a 200 Revelation (Western-Auto) Marlin a couple of months ago. Got to get some cast shot through it now.

Jim

Do a search on posts from "Oldfeller". He did this bullet in his Marlin and wrote quite a bit about it.

[PatMarlin]

Folks

I'd be interested if it will shoot in a Marlin 30-30. Got a 200 Revelation (Western-Auto) Marlin a couple of months ago. Got to get some cast shot through it now.

Jim

Wal, do you have a Fat-30, or a Skinny-30?

I remember Old Feller's words something to the effect of, "It's the best shootin' cast boolit I own". :bigsmyl2:

[tall grass]

I haven't slugged the chamber on it yet. That's next on the list of things to do. It's been a little project. I've been looking for a truck gun in a 30-30 to go with Lar45's TL311-160FP and Bdoyle's 311440 Ly. copy group buy moulds that I had already gotten in on but didn't have anything to shoot them in ;) .

more on this project later

Jim

[Tom Myers]

Slug

Below is a computer image and dimension rendition of the bullets cast from the Fat 30 mold that I have. Alloy is Wheelwieghts plus 2.5% tin.
At the time I got the mold I was interested in trying to make it work in a Remington 30-06 semi auto. That one went on a trade and the only thing that I have now in 30 caliber is my pre-1960 Win Mod 94 and that requires crimping ahead of the front band to feed through the action. I have managed to persuade it to shoot acceptable groups, but just recently acquired the Lyman 311401 clone in another 6 cavity buy that should work a lot better.

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/Lee%20Mold%20Sketch%206C%20312%20303%20185%20GC%20 187_gr.gif


http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/Lee%20Mold%206C%20312%20303%20185%20GC%20%20187_gr .gif
Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com/)

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Lee%20Mold%206C%20312%20303%20185%20GC%20%20187_gr .gif (http://www.tmtpages.com/)

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Lee%20Mold%20Sketch%206C%20312%20303%20185%20GC%20 187_gr.gif

[C1PNR]

If you added a thousandth to all the diameter dimensions, it would be better.
The max diameter I've got are in the M38 and M44 Russians @ .314 and having it drop .315 to .316 would give some options.

I'm ready to commit to one of these, if we can get it going.

[twotoescharlie]

I would like to have one also.


TTC

[Pepe Ray]

I agree w/ many of the posters, that a FAT 30 should drop out at least .314" preferably as much as .316". IME most S.M.L.E.'s are .314 to 316". Let's see what the majority come up with. TIA. Pepe Ray

[35 Whelen]

I agree w/ many of the posters, that a FAT 30 should drop out at least .314" preferably as much as .316". IME most S.M.L.E.'s are .314 to 316". Let's see what the majority come up with. TIA. Pepe Ray

I'm in but ONLY if it's minimum .316" cast diameter.
35W

[David R]

perhaps a poll?

David

[rvpilot76]

I'm in for an as-cast .316" Fat30 for my SMLE.

Kevin

[Buckshot]

................You should determine if you are going to go to Lee with CAVITY dimensions, or if you are presenting dimensions for the BOOLIT in some particular alloy?

If the cavity, you can hold Lee's feet to the fire. If for a boolit in some alloy, you'll have to live with Lee's tolerancing.

..................Buckshot

[David R]

The last group buy I did , 452.1 put in a tolerance (did I speel that right?) of .8 for the difference of pure wheel weights to 10 to 1 mix. The boolits came out exactly as he drew em. SO it would be .3168.

David

[4060MAY]

I'm in for two, if it's at least .316 as cast
M/N need them big also

chuck

[abunaitoo]

I'll take two if it's in .316.
Wouldn't it just make more sense to make it .316?????
You can always make the bullet smaller, but it's kind of hard to make it bigger!!!!!

[Char-Gar]

Who has signed on to do this? Please step forward and identify yourself! If nobody steps forward, I will take on the task, but I would prefer that somebody else do it.

If I do it, here are "da rules"..same as 311407. I will collect the money, send the agreed on specs to Lee, receive the molds, test one and ship them out if they are in spec as I understand that term. If they don't meet my expectations, I will hold Lee's feet to the fire, but that is my decision.

I will not tolerate, ********, whining, carping, second guessing, or personal wars between individuals. You pay your money, I get the mold, I test one, I send them out and I will judge if they are acceptable. I won't go back and say...Gee guys here is what I got, what do you think? Let's all bat this around and get crossways with each other and see much pain we can cause the Honcho. For $56.

If my otherwise poor attitude is acceptable, I will do it. If somebody else has always signed on, I will defer. I don't have any interest in doing this other than I want a mold, and if this is what it take to get on..well that is what it takes.

So sound off.....

[David R]

:) Where do I send the check? :)

I think it should be $58 for the increase in postage and aggrivation.

David

[Char-Gar]

David...You are right about the postage increase...I lost about $30.00 on the 311407 deal, so here is what we will do if this is acceptable...

1) The price will be $58.00
2) The diameter will be .316

I need somebody to throw up the specs here so we all know what we are talking about.

We need to bear in mind that even if we ask Lee to cut the molds for WW, Lee will cut them for whatever funky alloy they use and the molds may come out a hair smaller than our specs. If they just must be...no less than .316, then perhaps we need to fudge the specs a mite.

We ordered 311407 to be .314 on the bottom bands, .302 on the top two and .300 on the nose. My molds will cast that will #2, but folks that use WW report a .313X.301. Similiar issues have accompanied about every group buy mold from Lee.

I can live with .315-.317 so asking for .316 sounds OK with me, but if you can't deal with a thou smaller with YOUR alloy of choice, when the molds hit, the now is the time to say something and not later.

I want to hear from a bunch more folks and if all of this is OK with enough for the buy to make, then folks can PM me and I will send my address for the money. I will collect the money, when we have it all in, I will cash the checks, wait two weeks for any clinkers, then buy a Cashier's Check and send it all to Lee. When Lee has the money, I will call and ask for a delivery date. I will then sit back and wait for the molds to arrive. I won't bug Lee with multiple phone calls. Last time the molds came right on time.

[4060MAY]

I'm still in for 2, fudging to .316-.317 will work for me

Chuck

[Shepherd2]

I'd like one and .316 is what I was hoping for.

[Pepe Ray]

I'm in. The bigger the better. I have a lube sizer that can make 44's out of 45's.
Pepe Ray

[C1PNR]

I'm ready to sign on for one, only have a few questions.

A. What does it look like? FP, Sp, Loverin, tumble lube, "regular," what?
B. Is .316 the minimum or maximum diameter?
C. What's the target weight?
D. Gas check or plain base?

Thank you for again taking on the thankless job of Honco!:-D

[Buckshot]

................I have merged the 2 threads on the fat 30 issue. There is also a poll current to vote for desired size.

I would humbly suggest that the mould design submission to Lee be for the cavity dimensions you want cut and not for some arbitrary alloy whose composition is up for debate. However, that is up to those subscribing to the design and the honcho.

.............Charger, if you are going to honcho the deal, please advise me when you plan on accepting checks so I can 'Sticky" your post.

..................Buckshot

[Char-Gar]

Buckshot..... I will be the honcho on this thing IF there is not already somebody who wants to do it. I don't find anybody raising their hand...so go ahead and sticky my post, with my terms and rules.

I know, I probably need a nice pill and an atititude adjustment, but I can learn from the experience of other. Will Rogers once said:

Some men learn by reading, some men learn by observing and the rest have to pee on the electric fence.

I need somebody, to post a pic with the specs, so folks will know what we are looking at. I will send to Lee whatever specs we agree on after a "polite" and "brief" dialog.

I also need a designed to furnish me the finish specs to send to Lee.

So, if nobody else wants the job..and folks understand "da rules"...and if somebody will post a pic with specs...and somebody will furnish me with the final specs to send to Lee...we are off and running.

[Char-Gar]

Buckshot...Let's start with a clean sticky with everything up to date..so please post this under the title... Fat 30 #2 order..Start Here

I have agreed to Honcho the next fat 30 order under the following term, condition, rules and issues.

1. I will receive the checks, receive the specs, send the order to Lee, check one mold when the order is received and if acceptable mail out the molds. I will decided if the molds are acceptable and I will not go back to the board for the opinons of others.

2. I have no tolerance for carping, whining, ********, complaining and personal wars and will not answer posts or PM that smell like any of that nonsense. We have had enough of that in the past.

3. When you get your molds and if you are not happy, take it up with Lee, your Pastor or Priest or Spiritual Guide of your choice. I will be deaf, dumb and blind. The job of Mold Honcho does not include the requirment to make everybody happy.

4. The price per mold, will be $58.00 to you. Postage has gone up and I lost $30.00 on the 311407 order at $56.00 per mold. Hence the $58.00 price tag

5. We have learned that when we specify a certain cast size with WW, Lee produced molds that cast about .001 with WW. So we have a choice to make.

a. We can fudge the specs .0001 and hope we will get what we want when cast from WW...OR

b. We can as Buckshot suggests, furnish specs of actual cavity size.

6. In order to start, we need a designer who will furnish the final drawing and post a pic of some sort, so new folks have an idea of what they are buying. This stuff with number, lines and squiggles are way beyond the understanding of a simple country Methodist Preacher. Who will do this..please speak up!

7. We want a body size of .316 so we must either fudge the WW specs or give actual cavity specs. I saw the poll and .316 is way ahead, so the debate is closed on that issue... 316 it is!

8. If you want in..send me a PM and I will sent you my address for payment. I will collect the checks and money orders. When they are all in, I will deposit them and wait two weeks for clinkers. I will then have a Cashier's Check cut and send the money to Lee with the specs. I will call Lee after about two weeks and ask for a delivery date. I will not bug Lee with calls, changes, etc. etc. Once the order is in that is it!

9. Any question or input..now is the time..once I take the bit in my teeth I don't like to change course and am not gracious when asked to do so.

10. So if these rules and conditions are acceptable, let's go for it!

11. If these rules and conditions are not acceptable to you, then keep your money in your pocket. The price of the mold does not include the right to cause me angst.

SO WHERE IS OUR BULLET DESIGNER AND DRAWING..LETS GO..LETS GO..TIME IS AWASTING!

[45 2.1]

SO WHERE IS OUR BULLET DESIGNER AND DRAWING..LETS GO..LETS GO..TIME IS AWASTING!

The bullet design belongs to Glenn (lar45), you need to get it off him. As to changes?

[Char-Gar]

Bobby... I tryed to send a PM..but the system does not recognize "Lars45" or "Glenn". Anybody know how to reach him?

[45 2.1]

Charles-
Try this:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=15

[Char-Gar]

Bobby.. Thanks that helped. I was able to get a PM to him. He goes by lar45 and not Lar45 and that way my problem. Things are "case sensitive" around here. I saw he posted about a week ago, so he is still around. Now to sit back and wait and see.

I know how you feel and folks being able to protect their work product and I agree with you. I won't do the deal without Glenn signing on to use his design. Just tain't right to do other wise.

[Tom Myers]

These are results of dimensions entered into the Precision Bullet Design (http://www.uslink.net/~tom1/draw/draw.htm) software. The dimensions were of bullets thrown from the Fat 30 mold that I have. The only changes were that band dimensions were altered from 0.312 to 0.316.

You are welcome to use the sketchs, or not, If you do use it/them and need any changes made, just let me know. It is easy to do and just takes longer to post than to make the changes.

Hope this helps,

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com)

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Lee%20Mold%206C%20316-303-190-6C%20Bul%20191_gr.gif

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Lee%20Mold%206C%20316-303-190-6C%20%20191_gr.gif

[45 2.1]

If this is going to be a Fat30, you should increase everything from the crimp groove forward a couple of thousandths in diameter or more. The front band is tapered, not as shown also. My Fat30 boolits do not touch anything in several 303 British rifles that they have been tried in. I would note also that the drawing states that they are mold cavity dimensions, those will not work for the mold cavity.

[Tom Myers]

I increased the sketch front band and nose dimensions 0.002" and cleaned up the front band dimension specs and ogive radius notation.

Now everthing is increased 0.002" except the gas check shank. I wonder if that should bee increased a little. I remember that the checks were not a real tight fit on my castings.

Tom Myers

[Char-Gar]

Tom...Thanks for you input and willing to help.

Bobby...Thanks for your input and willing to help

Between all of you tech folks, we can come up with a proper drawing and specs. Just listen to each other, as I don't know squat about how alloys contract and expand and how a cavity dimension should be vis-a-vi the final product.

I will wait on Glenn to give us the green light. Hopefully we can get his original drawings so we can "massage' them.

Bobby..if you know..who did the original drawings for the Fat 30..was it you or somebody else?

[felix]

Be careful with the check shanks. Not every lot of the checks are identical in ID. The last year's Gator checks I have on hand have an ID that measures .2835 for one lot, and another at .3850. I know he made 3 lots this year because of our extensive demand. I hope he did not mix them, by accident or otherwise. He did not indicate that he had to purchase additional sheets of material, so hopefully the checks will be identical in springback and provide for the same ID. We have 334K on order, at nominal ID of .3840. ... felix

[45 2.1]

Bobby..if you know..who did the original drawings for the Fat 30..was it you or somebody else?

Glenn did the original Fat30 drawings as it was his design. I would just note the gas check shank being cut for the Hornady check and not dimension it myself. One note that might be good is the actual diameter difference between WW and 10:1 or lino, I put this on the GB311041 drawing and we got what we spec'd on it OR allow 0.001" up in dimensions spec'd.

[David R]

31141 came in Perrrfect!

Great job 452.1

David

[lar45]

Hi guys, here is the drawing that I sent off to Lee for the first order. As far as I am concerned the drawing and design... is the communal property of the cast boolit community. It did come in a little on the skinny side, so bump the dimensions up and/or move anything around to make it better.
http://www.lsstuff.com/howdah/misc/fat30-09.jpg

This is what we had drawn up to show the fit in different chambers and neck lengths.
http://www.lsstuff.com/howdah/misc/fat30chamber1.jpg

[Char-Gar]

Good news....lar45/Glenn is allowing us to use the original design. He has already posted pics. I am hoping we can move those down to this thread to keep things together. He is also sending me the autocad files and jepg via email.

The next step is to massage the specs to get a bullet we want, knowing the propensity of Lee to ship molds cut for their own funky alloy.

Bobby/45 2.1 ... I need your input there..you have more experience with Lee that just about anybody else and you seem to have broken the code on how to get molds that cast to the specs we want.

When we come to closure and have a final design, I will start a sticky and start taking orders. I am already receiving orders for folks interested in this project. It seems that the world is ready for a good .303 British bullets for the SMLE

As an aside, I had Mountain Molds cut me a similiar mold with a big tapered nose and it will fit my 1945 Longbranch perfectly. The problem is it only throws .311 bullets. It also has a meplat that hangs a tad on the edge of the Brit chamber. It only take a little thumb nudge and the round chambers fine, but it would not be a bullet for rapid fire work.

Has anybody had any experience with the original Fat 30 in the SMLE to know it's feeding qualities from the magazine?

Later today or tomorrow, I will measure some of my MM Fat 30s and give the OA length, the length of the nose and the diameter of the tapered nose. I think it is a little shorter and hence lighter than the FAT 30, but I will need to check.

We are in motion here..in motion..just remember the rules..always the rules!

[45 2.1]

It seems that the world is ready for a good .303 British bullets for the SMLE

As an aside, I had Mountain Molds cut me a similiar mold with a big tapered nose and it will fit my 1945 Longbranch perfectly. The problem is it only throws .311 bullets. It also has a meplat that hangs a tad on the edge of the Brit chamber. It only take a little thumb nudge and the round chambers fine, but it would not be a bullet for rapid fire work.

Has anybody had any experience with the original Fat 30 in the SMLE to know it's feeding qualities from the magazine?

Later today or tomorrow, I will measure some of my MM Fat 30s and give the OA length, the length of the nose and the diameter of the tapered nose. I think it is a little shorter and hence lighter than the FAT 30, but I will need to check.

We are in motion here..in motion..just remember the rules..always the rules!

Charles-
The Fat30 feeds fine (with it bumpimg the meplat some) in the 303 British rifles. I believe the only hitch is the tapered nose diameters on the boolit drawing. It would be good to have your dimensions(a dummy cartridge that has been chambered would work good) and several others as this is more caliber specific than before. I am going to slug my available 303s this weekend for the nose diameters. What is needed is the diameter and its distance from the end of the case neck in thousandths. We need to get this right.

[Char-Gar]

Bobby...... here are the specs from my version of the Fat 30. These specs are naked with no gas check and from a bullet cast of No. 2 alloy


1. OAL - 0.95
2. Top of crimp groove to meplat - 0.55
3. Top of crimp groove to bottom of gas check shank - 0.40
4. Two lube groove plus crimp groove
5. Weight from No. 2 - 170 grains
6. Meplat - 0.20
7. Ahead of the crimp groove I put one 0.060 band that measure .309
8. Ahead of this band the nose tapers for about 0.035 until ot drops off toward the meplat
9. The nose tapers from .305 to .307

My 1945 Longbranch .303 SMLE runs .306 across the lands, so this bullet engraves for about half the length of the nose taper.

I can send you some bullet and some dummy rounds if you like. This bullet was put together for a Marlin 336 in 30-30 that runs a large .305 across the lands. This why the body runs only .3105. This bullet does very well in that rifle.

If I had speced the body at .316 or so, I would be good to go in the Brit except for the meplat catching on the edge of the chamber. About the only way I can think of to avoid the possibility of this is to go with less meplat, but the bullets utility for hunting would also suffer. I guess nothing is perfect in the world of cast bullets.

Looking at Glenn's drawings of the original Fat 30, we have a very similiar bullet except for the thin (0.060) .309 nose band and mine being a hair shorter. There is a reason it is similiar, and that is because I had the Fat 30 specs in front of me when I did the deal. I don't think that silly band of mine serves any real purpose.

Standing here in the water of calm reflection, I see no reason why the original Fat 30 should not work well in the .303 Brit. IF..IF..The bullets fell from the mold with a nose taper of .304 - .308 (as per the drawing) and the body gave a diamter of .316. This bullet should do what the original Fat 30 did by sizing it down and also do well in the Brit.

The trick is to send Lee specs that will produce bullet as per above. BTW...I think this bullet should be called "Fater 30", to distinguish it from the original "Fat 30".

If you want a dummy round with my bullet that has been run though my Longbranch let me know..and if you have a preferance of OAL let me know that as well.

Well that is about as far as this dummy can go..Any question? Any input? From here whence to we go?

[45 2.1]

You have a PM. Lets wait for the samples and throat slugs to get this nose fit right for the Brits.

[Calamity Jake]

Count me in for one

[Bret4207]

I have the original Fat 30, shoots great in my '91 Argie. I am begining to think I need this one too. Maybe it should be "The Michael Moore obscenely obese 30"? Then again, maybe dropping fatty Moores name would be better.

[Pystis]

I slugged the throats of my mosins and they miked .315", .315" and .315".
The barrels miked .313", .312", and .3095 on grooves and .302", .297",.299" on lands.
The "fater 30" seems to be sizeable to fit to all throats.
Now the question. Is that .305" nose dia too much for those tighter bores?

Jukka

[45 2.1]

This is supposed to be for the obese throats in the 303 British rifles. This may be too large for the smaller Fat 30s, won't know until we get some throat slugs made. If the dimensions work out OK for me, then I will probably sell my original order second mold to finance this one, but you never know.

[Pystis]

I put those m28-30 dimensions (.3095") above mostly for comparison. I didn´t mean that Fat 30 for it.
I have a Russki 91-30 (.313x.303") that needs this boolit badly, unless the diameter grows significantly.
But I understand that this is for SMLEs, maybe I get one some day, so let´s see how this´ll end.


Jukka

[Char-Gar]

Pystis.....It is my hope this bullet will do well in the .303 Brit. but have good application in some of the other fatter 30.s as well. You have raised a good questions and that is...how much engraving of the nose on the lands it too much?

The Brit seems to be the real problem child with it's wartime tolerances and worn hroats on most firearms. As periously stated my Longbranch runs .005 accross the lands. I have gotten decent accuracy out of .311291 sized .314 but the nose is only .302. The longer nose riding bullets don't do well at all.

My Argentine mauser runs .314 in the grooves and .302 accross the lands.

I realize that just the sheer force of chambering the round is one limiting factor, but is there an accuracy factor as well? I will admit that I don't know. I have several bullets that are .003 to .004 larger in the nose than the land diamter that do very well. You can feel them engrave when chambering the round, but the force is not that great. Certainly not a concern for good gun handling and I have not had the bullets pulled, if a loaded round is extracted.

I wonder what is the experience of others on this issues?

[Buckshot]

...............I definately have a few rifles that will be a home for this 'Fatter' Fat 30. A 1909 Arg Cav carb at .303x.314", a M44, and a M91-30 for sure. It may also prove usefull in a 30-40 Krag, seating into the neck short enough to feed but with a nose that will engrave well.

................Buckshot

[45 2.1]

I've found in measureing throats that the throat is WAY larger than the barrel, either at the muzzle or a couple of inches up from the throat. A boolit that won't enter the muzzle will rattle around in the throat area. This is the area to fit if you want much better accuracy from your 50 year old or more milsurp, whether its out of the cosmoline or been shot to death. The problem with about all the present molds is that this nose area is too small to even engauge the throat in a rifle. The Fat30 and the GB311041 are small exceptions to this.

[35 Whelen]

The longer I cast for rifles, the more it seems that there are no hard and fast rules. My Savage Enfield has a .315" groove and (if I remember correctly) a .303" bore. My largest diameter bullet is a .314" 311291, yet this rifle with that bullet routinely shoots 8-10 shots into 2 1/2". Even more odd is that it will group 311467's @ about .312" into nice, round 2 1/2" groups!!
Likewise, my Maltby has a .314" groove but the bore is large enough that a 314299 (which casts at .314") can be easily pushed in the muzzle all the way up to the front driving band. Yet Wednesday evening a load of 18 grs. of IMR4759 and this bullet netted an 8 shot group spanning 2". I swear I'm going bald from scratching my head over this stuff!! (See post in What's Your Favorite Cast Boolit Bolt Action Shooter?)
BTW, all the aforementioned were fired at 100 yds.
35W

[kenjuudo]

Here it is guys, the worst SMLE sewer pipe/tomatoe stake.

Throat .3194
Bore .3092
Groove .3157

Measurements taken from two separate sets of lead slugs on a CMM. Belive it or not with a beagled 311291 it shoots.

[PatMarlin]

Nobody can make a fat enough Fat-30 to fit that Jim...

Go to the next caliber on up.. :mrgreen:

[Char-Gar]

Bobby.... The dummy 303 Brit (chambered in my rifle) and a couple of bullets are packaged to come you way. They will go in the mail tomorrow.

You are 100% correct about the throats of these used milsurp rifles being way larger than barrel. My bullet tapers from .304-.305 (dependng on how you measure) to .309 and they only begin to engrave on the lands.

Just for fun, I made a dummy 30-40 rn. and chambered it in my two Krags. Same story.

A bullet with a nose taper from .304 to .309 won't be too large for any of these mil-surp rifles. I would bet it should also be the berries in a 03 Springfiel that has seen duty in the army.

Just for fun to see how this bullet would work in a rifle that does not have a worn throat, I seated the Krag round with the case in the crimp groove and chambered it in my newish Brownchester 95 levergun (30-40) The round chambered without any undue force and the nose engraved for about 3/4 of it's length.


I am beginning to take a shine to this notion of a tapered bore riding nose. I can see how it would help in a number of situations.

[Bret4207]

Kenjjudo- You don't need an Obese 30, you need a "Fit and trim 32"!

[kenjuudo]

What I ended up doing was lap out and beagle a 311291 til it dropped .318. Sent that puppy on a tour there for a while, it burnt up plenty of postage.

jim

[Rick N Bama]

What I ended up doing was lap out and beagle a 311291 til it dropped .318. Sent that puppy on a tour there for a while, it burnt up plenty of postage.

jim




Jim is that mold you loaned me? If so, I sent it to a guy in CT, from there, where did it go? Man don't lose that one, it's a good mold.

Rick

[kenjuudo]

Rick,
That's the one, currently in Michigan, post office is really making some money on that ugly sucker.

jim

[4060MAY]

chargar

are we ready for money yet??

getting anxious..

Chuck

[Char-Gar]

We are still "in process" on the final specs, but I have already received two checks. My plan it to post the final specs in a sticky and then start to collect the orders. But if you want to send your money now go ahead. I have a file in my safe, where I am holding the checks and letters. The checks/money orders won't be cashed until the order is ready to go to Lee.

I don't see any reason why this group buy won't make. There seems to be plenty of interest. I think it is a given that we want these bullets to fall .316 and have noses that will do a reasonable good fit in mil-surp barrels.

I loaded some dummy rounds with my version with a nose that tapers from .305 to .307. My SMLE, two Krags and an Argentine 91 and this nose works well in those rifles. This bullets also works well in my 95 Winchester and Brownchester 95 leverguns in 30-40. It also is feeds slick in my 1960 vintage Marlin 336 (30-30) with .304 land diameter. However the same round chokes in my 1972 Marlin and two Winchesters in 30-30.

I anticipate this bullet will do well in rifles (mil-sur and some commercial) with worn throats, but might not do well in commercial rifles with unworn and tight throats. There just is no "stretch sock" one size fits all bullet.

The notion behind this is to continue with the same basic idea of the original Fat 30, but have it cast to spec and be large enough to work well in the Brit 303 which is a problem child for many folks.

Das the plan and idea.

[45 2.1]

Chargar-
I measured and plotted up your sample. If you seated the Fat30 in the rear crimp groove, it would almost overlay the same as your chambered sample(which hardly engraves anyplace). I am still working with fit issues from other samples. The nose will be larger (how much so is still undetermined) on the Fatter30. I will retain the two crimp grooves, but change the rear crimp grooves postion and change the bands around some also. It will be a little while yet till i'm ready to post.

[Char-Gar]

Bobby...Sounds good to me... I have a feeling this bullet will truly be something special..somethings truly unique and unobtainable anyplace else. I am not deep into SMLE Brits...but I hope when the final specs are in, somebody will post a link to our buy some place on the web where true SMLE nuts hang out. I think others might want one.

[Char-Gar]

Bobby...Sounds good to me... I have a feeling this bullet will truly be something special..somethings truly unique and unobtainable anyplace else. I am not deep into SMLE Brits...but I hope when the final specs are in, somebody will post a link to our buy some place on the web where true SMLE nuts hang out. I think others might want one.

[floodgate]

Dumb question I know, but whatinyell is a "sticky" and how do I call it up? I sold my previous "Fat 30" but have since gotten two Mosin-Nagants (M91/30 and M44) and Finn M39, and I want to get in on this one.

Years ago, I also had a Lee-Enfield No. 1 Mk V in as-issued condition. Dumb me!; I swapped it to a friend who wanted to sporterize it for his grandson. In case you are not familiar with this model, they made about 20,000 of them in the late '30's, and most were lost at Dunkirk. They combined the "bulldog" muzzle style (and light barrel) of the Mk III's with the receiver sight later used on the No. 4 Mk. I. I've spotted a few since I found out what I had, but the going prices are awesome, and totally out of my reach. THAT would justify a "Fat 30" fer shure! Anyhoo, I want on board this one!

floodgate

[Char-Gar]

A Sticky is a post that does not percolate, but stays "stuck" at the top of the page. You will notice several above. It saves folks having to hunt it up and is used for things that are ongoing.

[floodgate]

A Sticky is a post that does not percolate, but stays "stuck" at the top of the page. You will notice several above. It saves folks having to hunt it up and is used for things that are ongoing.

Chargar:

Got it; thanks.

floodgate

[cropcirclewalker]

I think I want in on this one too.

Question........I have been reading all these group buy posts but can't figger out if the mould comes with handles. Do I buy them separate?

[C1PNR]

Separate, Yessir.

Lee 6 cavity handles are probably best priced at either Midsouth or Midway, I'm not sure which.

[45 2.1]

Fatter30, nose tapering from 0.306" to 0.310" ( 2 thousandths bigger than Fat30) with a 0.316"+ body. Same length as Fat30 with three crimp grooves to allow seating to engagement in the 303 British within allowable cartridge length and stay in the neck. Meplat is 0.18" to allow feeding without snagging hopefully. Lube capacity a little greater

[Char-Gar]

Buckshot...Please create a sticky consisting of this post and #89 with the drawing and specs. Title the sticky: Fatter 30 orders start here


OK boys and girls, it is off the the races with the Fatter 30. Please see the drawing and specs here. The "Fat 30" thread below will contain "Da Rule" and what we hope the bullet will do. Please remember the "no whine" rule.

If you are interested send me a PM and I will send you my address for payment. When I get the requaired 25 orders, I will deposit the checks and money orders and send the order to Lee. When the molds come I will select on at random and do a test cast. If things work, then I will ship them out to you.

The price for a pair of six cavity blocks will be $58.00 delivered to you.

Please remember that we have only limited control over what Lee does. There are no promises or guarantees about anything. My job is to work with Lee to get molds as close to specs as possible and not to make you happy. When you get your mold , if your are unhappy, take it up with Lee, your spiritual advisor, your bartender or whoever. I am not interested in your angst. I will be deaf, dumb and blind.

So you SMLE, Argentine, Mosin and Krag shooters line up and let's make this happen.

Stickied. Buckshot