A letter to Lyman explaining why

[Recluse]

(I've become increasingly unhappy with Lyman in the following years, and often refer to them today as "the new Lyman." I remember the old Lyman VERY fondly and miss them. The stunt they pulled with this board was the last straw for me--I'll no longer buy anything Lyman, nor will I recommend anything Lyman. The following is my letter to them explaining why.)

:coffee:

To whom it concerns:

I began reloading in 1970 at my father's side and with his mentorship and guidance. During those days, we used primarily Lyman and RCBS equipment.

Some years down the road while serving in the military, a group of us continued to reload as we shot competitively in inter-service matches and competitions. We saw--and used--a lot of orange equipment. Lyman, along with other notable brands, often had a presence even at typically "closed" matches held on military installations. I always remember your brand being good to shooters and reloaders.

As a natural part of the journey of being a student of The Gun, I began casting my own bullets, or "boolits" as we call them on the home gathering site that you have recently and deliberately snubbed. Like scores before me, I began by reading your "Casting Bullets" handbook. Likes tens of thousands before me, I also relied heavily on Lyman reloading data manuals. Cast boolits and Lyman manuals went together like peas and carrots, as Forrest Gump would say.

Recently, you met a member of a place I and over 8,000 other loyal boolit casters and reloaders call home--the Cast Boolits forum. You, the Lyman brand, met this member at the 2009 Orlando SHOT show. A deal was struck for Lyman to help sponsor our forum in exchange for highly visible and direct advertising on our site. The "sponsorship" consisted of little more than the donation of a handful of items/components to be auctioned off, proceeds of which go to keep the forum financially stable.

Bear in mind that our site has over 8,000 members alone--no telling how many "lurkers" and "casual passerbys" visit the site on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Given today's political administration and the frantic rush to stockpile ammunition, I would venture that a LOT of "passerbys" come to our forum.

I further understand that one of our members had a problem with a competitor of yours and spoke his mind--as he is free to do as an American citizen and a consumer of MANY different firearms-related brands. I further understand that this conversation somehow ruffled the feathers of Lyman management.

According to a Lyman representative, you folks don't like "bully pulpits" where shooters, reloaders and boolit casters can criticize manufacturers. So, you pulled out of the deal you had made with Cast Boolits.

Long story short, the Lyman banner is no longer on the Cast Boolits site, and given the nature of how this exactly went down, there are some ruffled feathers among many members and guests of Cast Boolits from my vantage point as a mere member of the site. The message is that Lyman will not tolerate criticism, deserved or undeserved, or any brand in the shooters' world.

Uh-huh.

So now that I know Lyman has entered the realm of Political Correctness, I now understand why I write the following to you.

Put bluntly, I used to be a loyal Lyman supporter. VERY loyal. I have many of your moulds and sizing dies. My favorite, to this day, lubesizer is my cherished Lyman 45. I have a good number of your case-prep hand tools. I have used your Orange Crusher and pulled the handle hundreds of thousands of times since I first purchased it on an enlisted man's meager E-2 salary back in the 70's.

A few years ago, I noticed a change, or shift if you will, in Lyman's attitude towards customer service and customer loyalty. It became inconsistent. I had several phone calls looking for parts, and one looking for warranty assistance. For the first time in almost forty years of dealing with reloading manufacturers, I was actually challenged as to why one of YOUR components broke--a Lyman 4500 lubesizer. Never mind that I had the same exact problems with it that so many on the MidwayUSA site negatively reviewed the lubesizer in regards to. I was told "it was my fault and warranty will not cover it."

Fine. Anyone and any company can have a bad day, an off day. But I tried calling a few days later after I thought about it some. Was told the same thing by a different person on the phone.

Now I have a sour taste in my mouth. I buy a Lyman mould a year ago, and it threw bullets that were both out of round and over .003 too large. Called you up and was told I basically didn't know how to "prep my alloy" and was challenged on how exact to "Lyman Number 2" I was. I hung up in disgust and threw the mould in the garbage.

Even after that, I kept my opinion about the "new Lyman" pretty much to myself. But no longer.

After learning about how you did the owners at Cast Boolits, this was the final straw.

Since that incident, I have purchased five new moulds--not one of which came from you or was manufactured by you. I've purchased three new sizing dies. Fortunately, RCBS dies work just fine in BOTH a Lyman 45 as well as an RCBS LubeAMatic II.

In the past ten days, I've had two different families come over to my reloading shop to learn the basics of reloading. I let them use my equipment to ensure this is something they wish to pursue. Eventually, with both families, the subject of "which brands" came up. I gave glowing reviews to RCBS, Dillon, Lee and even Hornady--which has never been a favorite of mine, although I couldn't tell anyone exactly why.

When Lyman was asked about, I stated that it would be snowing in Hades and Obama would be wearing twin six-shooters and wearing his birth certificate as a necktie before I ever purchased--or recommended--ANYTHING made by Lyman.

Then I explained why. And I explained that what transpired with Cast Boolits was the final straw and that I found it indicative of the "new Lyman's" corporate culture and attitude.

I'm still a bit dumbfounded that a brand that was at the forefront of bringing boolit casting into people's homes would snub THE most popular, credible and knowledgable forum found anywhere on the world wide web. . . and for the reason(s) you did.

Not only do we cast boolits, but we also reload and we also shoot. Many of us are CBA members as well, but that forum doesn't get five percent of the traffic, members and guests that Cast Boolits does. Great folks over there, no doubt, but fact is, they don't get the casual, targeted and destination traffic that Cast Boolits does. Not by a long shot.

So, what you've done is given 8,000+ of us all the more reason to spend our money with the Red, Green and Blue brands. Their customer service is still top-shelf, as is their word and honor. The hordes of new reloaders that are being "born" each day, thanks to the political climate mean that those of us who've been rolling our own for all these years are being sought out almost DAILY for our opinions and advice on which brands to patronize. My answer will be simple: Anything but Orange.

Things have obviously changed at Lyman, and obviously not for the better. And that is truly a shame.

Honestly? I'll miss seeing the Lyman banner at Cast Boolits. It's a storied, historical brand and one can't help but think of casting when one sees the brand. But given how the parting of ways occurred, whenever I see the Lyman brand, it will now only serve to remind me that things have changed far too drastically at your company for me to patronize it further.

I do not speak for anyone at Cast Boolits other than myself. I have enjoyed the fine folks there and their hospitality and other-world knowledge and experience since 2004, when it was known by a different name. Put simply, in the world of shooting and reloading, the owners, administrators and members of Cast Boolits represent the absolute finest among the shooting and reloading population. And as proud as I am to be part of that home, I am equally disappointed in Lyman's actions regarding Cast Boolits.

With sincerest regards,

xx xxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx, xx

[Westwindmike]

We eagerly await their reply.:coffeecom

[Poygan]

Recluse,
I think your letter was very well done and it closely speaks to my feelings as well. I started reloading metallic cartridges in 1964 with a Lyman Ammo Maker in .45acp. i have three of their reloading manuals, plus numerous dies and molds. I have dealt with RCBS and Lyman regarding replacement parts for reloading gear and have found RCBS fair superior in customer service. Thats why most of my reloading gear is green with a bit of red thrown in.

I feel sad that a company with such a long history in the reloading field has apparently deteriorated to this level. I can't think of any other board that would be a more appropriate place for the Lyman banner to be displayed.

Perhaps Lyman is posturing for a TARP bail out?

[pdawg_shooter]

Recluse, you are wrong! You do speak for others on this forum. At least 1 other for sure...ME!

[1911sw45]

Same here Reluse, you said it better than I could have. Lyman is out in my eyes. I know what you mean about the out of round boolits too! I have 4 moulds that are that way!

1911sw45
Adam

[ggb3]

Add me to the list.

George

[wiljen]

I will continue to buy gear from the "old lyman" by trading with others on the board or buying second hand products as the old molds are still well worth while. Lyman's golden years were well behind it anyway as the management of late has consistently dropped the best performing molds from their catalogs and reduced the options shooters had to those that were easiest for lyman to produce.

As far as directly sending lyman my money, I think not.

In this era where companies in general and leisure products companies in specific are fighting to stay financially solvent, it does seem more than a bit foolish to alienate one's customer base. I'm sure RCBS, NEI, Lee, Hoch, Rapine and the custom makers (See Classics and Stickies forum for contact info) are all thanking lyman about now for the help.

[rmb721]

I was going to buy two new 4-cavity Lyman moulds, but now I will only buy used ones.

[jonk]

I'm a bit curious; which competitor did someone have a gripe against? And why would it bother Lyman? I mean that's like saying if I bash Chevy, Ford gets mad!

[leftiye]

Their precision has always been uncertain. Their customer service was always all that kept them in business. Their perspective has always been baffling. Piffing us off wasn't a smart move. I'll avoid them in the future.

[carpetman]

I had a Lyman mold with a problem---it was probably 25 years old so that's an understandable deal. I sent it to them and it was repaired and I was charged accordingly and a little more. Has anyone ever paid for repair of an RCBS item even when it was their fault? If so Ive not heard about it and I know for my part I never have. Guess what I buy? That was such a no brainer question even Scrounger could answer it.

[jonk]

I had a Lyman mold with a problem---it was probably 25 years old so that's an understandable deal. I sent it to them and it was repaired and I was charged accordingly and a little more. Has anyone ever paid for repair of an RCBS item even when it was their fault? If so Ive not heard about it and I know for my part I never have. Guess what I buy? That was such a no brainer question even Scrounger could answer it.
Absolutely. My RCBS powder scale broke. No reason, just quit. I called them and they told me no electronics were covered. I paid to ship it, paid to fix it, then paid to ship it back and fix it again when it still wasn't working. All told I spent $85 to fix it, almost enough to get a new scale. That really soured me on them. Oh sure the $5 decapping rod was free when it bent but when it came to something real they bailed.

[45nut]

FYI Recluse,, we passed the 9,000 mark this morning. So,, that's 9,000+ registered and unknown numbers of visitors that drop by to listen in and absorb the discussions.
Good and Bad , great and poor all get exposure to those of us that reload, with or without boolits we our ourselves or those we purchase. Millions of hits a month and some real information that is truly unavailable in the printed books.

Will Lyman survive without us,, of course,, will we survive without Lyman,, of course.
There is simply too much demand for reloading gear in today's marketplace for Lyman to fail, it would take some serious work at failing and alienating your customers for anyone to fail in the market as it is, but,, when this passes, and I expect it to pass,, the seeds they sow today will be reflected in the bottom line.

No amount of advertising can truly overcome a poor attitude from the company seeking sales, for every customer that tells a friend about a poor experience tells ten others or more. I sure do and after displaying their banner proudly here just to get spurned tells me quite well how they intend to take care of us in the future as "consumers".

[Johnw...ski]

Thanks for a very good letter that gets to the point. Lyman has gotten so big, just take a look at all the divisions under their umbrella, that they have lost sight of the customer, at least if there is a problem.

I used to deal with one of their other divisions, a company called RayTech, for one of my other hobbies, they were always miserable to deal with even when I was only trying to buy something. It's too bad, these were good American companies, but I am not sure they deserve our support.

John

[Daves1]

Straight to the heart, Love it! Corparate America forgots who built them.

[45nut]

Straight to the heart, Love it! Corparate America forgots who built them.

Very typical actually,,after all we are just "consumers" and "human resources".

[JeffinNZ]

I don't understand why folk are getting so heated over Lyman not wanting to parpicate in this board. I think it's pretty arrogant to assume that they should.

[45nut]

Its not the not participating Jeff,, they made a deal with us at the SHOT Show to support us with products to auction off to keep the site up,, we did our part immediately and they followed up the shot show by backing out of their promise after their banner had been up for two months.

Its about a deal being a deal. It's about making good on a business deal.
Same as if someone sold something here, got the cash,, then decided to keep the goods anyway.

[anachronism]

Wow, this is bad. Lyman left because we ran a long-term post trashing another manufacturer. They likely figured that that thread could just as easily been them & so they quietly withdrew their support from the board and left. Now they are getting the same trashing that Redding did.

[DickK]

Recluse,

Very well written letter. However, I've learned over the years while working for a number of corporations that "To whom it may concern" letters end up in the shredder. I've found you'll do better by directing the letter to the president of the company.

Last September, a situation arose with Lyman and I wrote directly to the president.

His mailing address is:

Mr. J. Mace Thompson, President
Lyman Products Corporation
475 Smith Street
Middletown, CT 06457

You may wish to resend the letter. I'm quite sure if you address it to Mr. Thompson, he'll read it.

[hornsurgeon]

wow, is that a petition? where do i sign?

[JeffinNZ]

Its not the not participating Jeff,, they made a deal with us at the SHOT Show to support us with products to auction off to keep the site up,, we did our part immediately and they followed up the shot show by backing out of their promise after their banner had been up for two months.

Its about a deal being a deal. It's about making good on a business deal.
Same as if someone sold something here, got the cash,, then decided to keep the goods anyway.

OK, I understand however this is the down side of a representative in "yes mode" at the gun show giving a verbal agreeement.

There are two seperate issues here. If you have a beef with the product by all means tell them. If you have a beef with them not supporting the board, well, that's their call and life goes on.

By the way, how many people who are pi$$ed at Lyman over not supporting the board have actually donated to the board themselves? I know I have.

Don't mean to rant but I just think Lyman deserve a fair deal.

[gasboffer]

The thermostat went out on a casting furnace (Lyman) that I had been using for about 20 years.
I called them to get another one, talked to a woman who wasn't too concerned. She very coldly told me that they didn't have that part anymore. Acted like I was wasting her time. I could understand them not carrying parts for a twenty year old furnace, but she didn't act like she cared whether I got it fixed or bought another one, even another brand. I won't buy anything with Lyman on it, even if I have to do without.
Clyde

[madcaster]

YEAH,way to go Buddy!I'm with you on this too.:coffee:
A petition would be great,and have that secratary fired that is not so friendly!

[1Shirt]

Speaking for myself only! Have and use Lyman, RCBS, Lee, etc.etc.etc. will continue to use, and as necessity dictates, will purchase from all of them again. I have Not experianced any great problems with Lyman over the years. I have always welcomed Lyman publications, with emphasis on the cast pubs. Had it not been for Lyman publications, I doubt that there would be as many casters as we have today, and the number of folks on this forum would probably be considerably less. Problems with a company as previously stated should be addressed to the top level, preferably by registered mail. You deal with flulkies you will get flunky treatment. Yes, Lyman has changed over the years, but so have a number of companies and the management of same. If you don't like lyman stuff, don't buy it. Guess me and pdawg-shooter are about on the same page.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[TC66]

You want to talk customer support? I witnessed first hand last week how good customer service is at RCBS. Bought an old Rock Chucker 2. Ram was rusted bad and would not move. After a lot of work I finally got it out. Called RCBS the next day and was going to buy a new ram. The guy I spoke with took my name and all my info and what I needed. said is there anything else I can do for you????? I said don't you need you need my CC number? He said no our products are cuvered by a lifetime warranty. There will be no charge. My jaw hit the floor. Nothing I did or they did wrong the guy who owned it let it rust and they still took care of it. I will stick with RCBS.

[Recluse]

OK, I understand however this is the down side of a representative in "yes mode" at the gun show giving a verbal agreeement.

There are two seperate issues here. If you have a beef with the product by all means tell them. If you have a beef with them not supporting the board, well, that's their call and life goes on.

By the way, how many people who are pi$$ed at Lyman over not supporting the board have actually donated to the board themselves? I know I have.

Don't mean to rant but I just think Lyman deserve a fair deal.

Jeff,

A number of things are at play here. For one, I do have a beef with Lyman over how they have handled customer service issues as of late, and I've told them. They could not have possibly cared less.

If what they're after are more shovels to dig themselves a deeper grave, they're doing a good job of collecting them.

I agreed with your first sentiment about "why should they feel compelled to support this (or any other) group/forum?" (paraphrased)

For the record, we called such things "hostage campaigns" in the marketing and business world and I think they are despicable.

However, a deal was struck at this year's SHOT show. Not sure if you've had the opportunity to attend a SHOT show since it is well more than a day's drive from your house :), but please trust me when I tell you that it is a gun-enthusiast's absolute, total, ultimate nirvana! The show is not open to the public, but rather only to retailers, FFL holders and law enforcement/agency and others in the industry.

Should you have occasion to be in the States when a SHOT show is being held (typically always in January) and would like to attend, get in touch with me and I'll help make it happen.

But one of THE primary purposes of the SHOT show is in acquiring new customers and new relationships. Another purpose is showcasing/announcing new products, obviously. I see more deals made and more relationships forged during the annual SHOT show than anywhere else and at any other time in the year.

Lyman made a deal with Cast Boolits. And why not? With a bit over 9,000 members here, it is a reloading and casting nirvana in and of itself. Talk about your absolute TARGETED AUDIENCE!

Now remember, Lyman could have just as easily said, "No thanks. If we do a deal with you (Cast Boolits), we'd have to do a deal with everyone. It's an extraordinarily lame excuse, but nonetheless a common and acceptable one.

But no, Lyman made the deal. Then they re-negged on it, and for reasons highly nebulous.

Remember, we're not just casters and reloaders here--we're also customers. I (the caster, reloader and shooter) can live without Lyman, but Lyman (the manufacturer) cannot live without me. They MUST have customers. I can always choose RCBS, Lee, Dillon, Hornady, et al--that's the beauty of a capitalistic and competitive economic system.

The problem is that Lyman is taking their CORE customer base for granted--and that kind of apathy can be disasterous. Very few consumers are as brand loyal as shooters. Of that group, reloaders are the most loyal (to their brands) of all. Think back to the endless arguments over Dillon versus Hornady, "is Lee cheap junk or not?," RCBS customer service versus Dillon, etc etc.

Reloaders love their colors.

Lyman bloody well knows this (sorry, but I love using "bloody" from time to time even when talking to fellow Texans and westerners :)) and knows that Cast Boolits is THE world wide web place for boolit casters. They struck a deal, then renegged on it.

Why should I, or any other brand loyal caster and reloader, trust them after doing something like that?

When someone has a beef with Dillon, we've seen a rep come on and visit from time to time. We've seen other reps on occasion. Big brands know they are not universally loved. If that wasn't the case, we'd only have Coca-Cola or Pepsi--but not both. Likewise with other big brands.

Using the pitiful excuse of not wanting to see a competitor raked over the coals for shirking a deal is just pure BS, plain and simple. At one time or another, I've seen virtually every major brand disparaged here in one form or another since 2004 when I discovered this group. But Lyman is the only brand, to date, that I've seen shirk their CORE AUDIENCE over a handful's dissatisfaction over a competitor's product/brand/service.

That tells me a lot about their diminishing character as a brand.

My letter to them wasn't about whatever chump change the forum might've lost from their running out of the deal. My letter was about their seemingly lack of concern and "we don't give a damn about our base consumer" attitude I've seen and witnessed in the past few years. Renegging on the deal with Cast Boolits simply buttered the cornbread as far as I was concerned, and thus, my correspondence to them.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

Seems to me everyone is ignoring the fact one of our own didn't get his own way and contacted Lyman about the type of treatment they could expect here. That's what lead to their leaving. Who it is doesn't matter. What matters to me is that despite all the work done here, the research and laying to rest a whole bunch of old wives tales, we're still at the mercy of the old boy network to an extent.

I suppose we will have to keep that in mind in the future. Not POing sponsor is nothing new. I'm sure if Lee read my posts regarding their BP pots or Hornady some of the hate posts between them and Dillon machines they might rethink sponsorship too. But until someone with a little pull contacts someone who knows him...what they don't know won't hurt them. I was a bit apprehensive about the sponsor idea anyway. When I was working on another site one of the big questions everyone asks is, "Who is your sponsor?" I could honestly say we were independent and that made a difference to a lot of people.


Personally I have no fear of pulled sponsorships. If this place needs a few more bucks for up keep, all they need do is let it be known and I'll send what I can. I would prefer we remain as we are- pretty much forthright and honest in our opinions rather than molly coddling a manufacturer like the gun-toon magazines. To thy own self be true, right?

[Chunky Monkey]

Well written letter!!

Compared to you all I'm a green noob here! I started out with Lee's a year ago, to get my feet wet, so to speak. I then decided to try the iron mould so I bought a RCBS. Wow, right out of the box it cast and dropped great boolits, I absolutley love it. I then figured I needed a SWC mould so I bought a Lyman 452460. It needed some TLC but it now cast and drops good boolits but for what I paid it shouldn't have needed all that TLC to get it working properly.

I also recently decided I needed a slip on Pachmayer grip for my 45 auto.

Anyhow after reading all that transpired here I've decided that I won't send my money to them either. Just picked up a Hogue slip on yesterday, granted it's not as nice as the Pachmayer but I feel good about where my money went.

[alamogunr]

I hope, when the dust settles from this thread and past and future threads with a similar objective, that we haven’t committed to not buying from any supplier. This could put a crimp in our HOBBY(emphasis on hobby).

I also wonder how much of the dissatisfaction with suppliers is due to an overall dissatisfaction with corporate America in general, given the present state of the economy and those companies whose business conduct brought us to this point.

Just a thought. Not trying to fan the flames.

John
W.TN

[Bret4207]

I've seen a radical change in corporate responsibility just in the last 20 years or so. My recent Estwing hammer thread is an example of this. I guess when the penny pinching starts, the old promises go out the window.

[leadman]

I have alot of Lyman products and yes, there have been some issues with these in the past. But I must say the lady I normally speak with on the phone at Lyman has always been very helpful. Sometimes I have paid for a replacement part, but only if it was an obvious operator error. I do offer up the information to her if this was the case.
Never have I been denied a repair part if I thought it should be covered by warranty. I also have recieved parts for no cost even if it was operator error.
Having Lyman back out of a deal with the board does leave a sour taste in my mouth, especially if it was over criticism of another manufacturers product. I probably will buy products as needed from Lyman. It is my feeling that all the manufacturers need our support as they have been, and will continue to get alot of heat because of the products they make.
Could we as a board make a recommendation on how to deal with products that need some help from manufacturers that all could use to obtain the desired results? Sort of an outline on what to say or write when having a product repaired or requesting a part?
I know I have had conversations with businesses that didn't go the way I hoped and then I remember some small, but important detail that I forgot to mention that might have changed the outcome.
I will write a letter to Lyman also explaining my feelings on what has transpired.

[carpetman]

I dont know one other caster in my town that is a member here. I know of 3-4 others that cast but not members. How many I don't know? I suspect this ratio is pretty much true with all of you so I don't think we'll put Lyman out of business.

[happy7]

I agree with you Carpetman, but I think most of us regulars here take this hobby to a separate level of fanatacism. Of the other reloaders and casters that I know, there is only one other here locally on this board. He and I outspend the others in town by a factor of at least 10. It's not because I have more money. I have less than most of them, but I just like it more. And I think that is probably true of most of us here. But I do hope we are only a small percentage of the casters in this country.

[stubshaft]

I will not buy anything in an Orange box anymore! (unless it is used). I have had more issues with them than I care to go into. They like Weaver are living only on the "name" and have lost sight of the clientel that built them.

[troy_mclure]

being new to casting, and this site having given me so much, i figure ill support the site by not buying the lyman master casting kit.

im sure rcbs sells something similar.

[Tazman1602]

I do not speak for anyone at Cast Boolits other than myself[/U]. I have enjoyed the fine folks there and their hospitality and other-world knowledge and experience since 2004, when it was known by a different name. Put simply, in the world of shooting and reloading, the owners, administrators and members of Cast Boolits represent the absolute finest among the shooting and reloading population. And as proud as I am to be part of that home, I am equally disappointed in Lyman's actions regarding Cast Boolits.

With sincerest regards,

xx xxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx, xx

Not true friend, you may speak for I also. I too have been a long time Lyman fan. I recently ran into a broken part on my Lyman 450 sizer. After numerous calls as to why the parts hadn't shipped, and getting customer service reps who couldn't give me an answer and couldn't have cared less I gave up. NO MORE LYMAN until they get customer service straightened out!

...a new RCBS Lubri-sizer is on my bench as we speak and a new link handle made of steel as it should have been to begin with is in my mill so I can fix the old Lyman.......but I won't buy anything from them anymore!

Art

[txpete]

hmmm I must of talked to the same lady on the phone about my lyman leak-0-matic lube sizer which I bought new.being in the army at that time (92) and moving from one post to another I didn't get to use it very much.after my phone call to lyman I gave it to a friend that liked to tinker and I bought a star which I still use.
the lady I talked at customer service was "almost" rude even back then I wondered how they stayed afloat.I still will buy my lyman (used) molds from the trader boards but I quit buying anything new along time ago.while lee isn't perfect I spend my money there and with rcbs.

pete

[Maven]

"NO MORE LYMAN until they get customer service straightened out!"

My dealings with Lyman's Customer Service dept. are 180 degrees from the above. See my recent posts in "Casting Equipment" about their ladles/dippers.

[jlchucker]

I was astounded, to say the least, when I called to ask about my Lyman 66 receiver sight, and if there was a way to correct the wobble in it. The lady told me that the design called for a certain amount of play. In a click adjustable rear sight????? This is not the old Lyman that I, or previous generations could rely on for quality!!

[rockrat]

I think my last new lyman product was some boolit lube, but as far as equipment goes, I got some parts for my 450 about a year ago and didn't have a bit of trouble with them. Will say that it was the only time I called for parts. Find it easier to buy a used 450 at a gun show to use for parts. Found a few with parts missing for $20.
What soured my on lyman was an electronic scale that quit just about at the time the warrany ran out, and I mean within days either way. They wouldn't cover it under warranty and wanted more to fix it , than a new one would cost. Last time I ever bought Orange new. Will only buy something if it is used. Bought six presses, none orange colored (all Red, blue or green), couple of lead pots, all green. Sorry Lyman, your glory days are long gone.

[Bradley]

I dont know one other caster in my town that is a member here. I know of 3-4 others that cast but not members. How many I don't know? I suspect this ratio is pretty much true with all of you so I don't think we'll put Lyman out of business.

I've not bought a lot of Lyman stuff but the little I have I really like. On the once occasion I had need to call them they were very nice and helpful.

[44mag1]

I bought a new lyman luber sizer, the plug on the bottom blew out within days. called Lyman and was told too bad. I said how would you fix it. the reply was to push it back in and peen it back together. I put a quarter under it,clamped it back down and it works fine. The real kicker was at the 08 shot show I told the rep from lyman about it and she said " yep, that happens to them sometimes" no more lyman for me

[Ricochet]

Biggest problem I have with Lyman is their reduced number of available moulds. There are a bunch of the less popular Ideal designs that are pretty interesting. A bunch of our group buys have more or less replicated them.

[theperfessor]

They've made some really dumb*** decisions haven't they? Like cutting out the 410459 mold and instead keeping the 410610 that uses .41 gas checks - and discontinuing the gas checks for it!

Luckily I was able to buy a used 410459 four cavity mold from fleabay a while back.

[shooterg]

Broke the sprue screw on a 457125. Lyman would not sell or give me a screw, you have to buy the repair kit with sprue plate/etc. About $15 delivered. Erik sent me a couple screws for WAAYY less !

[Catshooter]

What a shame. I've allways loved Lyman products, and will continue to purchase whatever product I want, as long as it's not coming from Lyman. You can't have any more of my money Lyman.

I too have mentored many in reloading and will continue to do so. I'll recomend RCBS, which I have allways done, but now I will un-recomend Lyman which I never have done before.

What a shame.


Cat

[JesterGrin_1]

Come on people I understand this thread is a good way to vent our frustration about Lyman but in all honesty do you really think they really care at all. I actually feel Lyman could care less as this is a big world and our little corner of it means nothing to them and with the way things have been going for about this past year I am sure they are selling there wares faster than they can even produce them.

But I will have to say for the most part I use RCBS products except for my press which is now a Lee Classic Cast Turret Press but I also have an RCBS Jr Press and a RS-3 press by them. RCBS has ALWAYS treated me well in both phone manners and product support.

[StarMetal]

What a shame. I've allways loved Lyman products, and will continue to purchase whatever product I want, as long as it's not coming from Lyman. You can't have any more of my money Lyman.

I too have mentored many in reloading and will continue to do so. I'll recomend RCBS, which I have allways done, but now I will un-recomend Lyman which I never have done before.

What a shame.


Cat

I dunno Cat, the new line of RCBS dies are made in China from what I've heard. No matter if they are or not, they are not up to the same standards as their old dies. Most of my friends and myself try to buy the old RCBS dies when they become available anywhere. I have found myself buying more and more Forster dies.

I've always had great service from Lyman.

As Ricochet mentioned they cut the number of their moulds, but another thing is they are cutting most their moulds undersized now too.

Joe

[Oldtimer]

I bought a 452374 a couple of months ago. When I got it, I took it apart to clean it and adjust the sprue plate. Got to looking a little closer at the plate, and it was warped a little. Put it flat on a piece of glass, and there almost a 1/16 gap in the middle. I called coust. serv. and talked to a lady. Dont know if she was the same one mentioned in previous posts or not, but she was very nice, and said she was sorry. She said a replacement would go out that day, and if I had any other problems, to give her a call. Got it in 2 days, and it was perfect. I have a lot of Lyman equipment, most is over 30 years old. I know the old stuff is probably better than the stuff made today. This is the only time I have had to call, or deal with the company, but this one could not have been better. Bob

[Shooter6br]

RCBS is great. I have had parts replaced for free even when I told them it was my stupid fault or just bad luck( Wife broke primer tube on Turret press( was in her laudry room area so actually my fault LOL)

[gray wolf]

Well bravo to you for your letter :drinks:

These Co. that think they can keep on shiiting on people has gone far enough in my book,and I think your letter is well written and on target to Lyman.
One of the problems I see is they take advantage of the new people that
think it's the way it is and has always been. :(:(
Like the young kids that think Life savers candy always cost 80 cents.
It's the same **** we paid 5 cents for years ago.
Until they loose a little money ( allot of money) they will just brush it off.
Trying to stay focused ------------- This is going on with many Company's
not only Lyman--So many times I hear of people having problems with something and instead of shipping the junk back they do home fixes or pitch it in the trash----send the **** back and if you get no results ****tt can the company-done out of here.
What catch me on a bad day?? [smilie=1:[smilie=1:
MONEY__MONEY___MONEY-- that's seems to be the bottom line and I guess
there are times they must think that way, but there is only so much a consumer will take--at least this one.
Look at Ruger and there 10/22 --all the plastic **** (Polymer parts) Give me a break.

OK I quit before I get a penalty or sumin.

But good for you and your letter.


GW

[HollandNut]

Like Maven , my experiences with Lyman customer service are the complete opposite of everyone else ..

But in all fairness , as far as moulds go , I havent bought a new Lyman mould in many years ..

[StarMetal]

I believe Lyman's current undersize mould problem may be because of a few things. Before the knowledge was available that fatter bullets are the way to go, that is on rifles fit the throat and revolvers fit the cylinder throat, folks believe shooting either groove size or little over was the way.

Another reason is Lyman may be using old worn out cherries.

The last is they may have many new workers that don't know any better on where the final cast diameter should be.

Let's hope they get it straightened out.

Joe

[theperfessor]

In the last five or six years my wife has given me Lee, Lyman, or Saeco 4-6 cavity molds as Christmas gifts. I Lee-mented the Lees and replaced the stupid lockwasher Lyman uses as a sprue plate spring on all the Lymans. Don't recall doing anything to the Saecos besides cleaning/lubing them like I do all my new molds. All cast good bullets.

Every company has its own business model and philosophy. When I think of the 4 or five Saecos I own all have been good quality traditional molds that worked properly from the start. Of my new Lyman's, every one required replacing a 15 cent part with a better 15 cent part. Haven't got one in a couple years so I don't know if they've fixed this. The Lee's needed some minor work, but I got two of those instead of one of the others so that's OK with me. My impression is that Saeco and Lyman are both trying to be "traditional" businesses but Saeco offers better quality with proper parts. Lee tries to be a "progressive, innovative" company that uses good engineering and minimalist/simple product design integrated into the manufacturing processes available to offer low cost products that sometimes suffer in quality.

I'm not going to bash Lyman or any other company other than how I choose to spend my money in a free-market transaction. If they offer something I want at a price I think is reasonable then that's what I'll buy. But I just don't get the feeling that Lyman has done very much in the last few years to keep up with modern manufacturing technology and the development of innovative products. Have they done an engineering review of their manufacturing processes? Or an in-depth market survey, including reading blogs and posts on sites like this?

Did they invest in technology to satisfy demands for group buys? People on this site are paying as much if not more than a current production Lyman mold to custom mold makers to duplicate what are primarily Ideal/Lyman designs.. Why haven't they developed various "series" of limited production molds in different categories, much like S & W has reincarnated various traditional calibers based on the basic N frame. Why not team up with Ruger and offer a boxed set with single action revolver in a traditional caliber along with a numbered mold in a traditional weight/form? There are so many things that could be done!

Look at all the innovative products Lee has offered in all facets of reloading. I'd like to compare Lee's and Lyman's annual sales figures/units sold in ANY comparable category.

Just my $0.02. YMMV :-)

[Tazman1602]

In the last five or six years my wife has given me Lee, Lyman, or Saeco 4-6 cavity molds as Christmas gifts. I Lee-mented the Lees and replaced the stupid lockwasher Lyman uses as a sprue plate spring on all the Lymans. Don't recall doing anything to the Saecos besides cleaning/lubing them like I do all my new molds. All cast good bullets.

Every company has its own business model and philosophy. When I think of the 4 or five Saecos I own all have been good quality traditional molds that worked properly from the start. Of my new Lyman's, every one required replacing a 15 cent part with a better 15 cent part. Haven't got one in a couple years so I don't know if they've fixed this. The Lee's needed some minor work, but I got two of those instead of one of the others so that's OK with me. My impression is that Saeco and Lyman are both trying to be "traditional" businesses but Saeco offers better quality with proper parts. Lee tries to be a "progressive, innovative" company that uses good engineering and minimalist/simple product design integrated into the manufacturing processes available to offer low cost products that sometimes suffer in quality.

I'm not going to bash Lyman or any other company other than how I choose to spend my money in a free-market transaction. If they offer something I want at a price I think is reasonable then that's what I'll buy. But I just don't get the feeling that Lyman has done very much in the last few years to keep up with modern manufacturing technology and the development of innovative products. Have they done an engineering review of their manufacturing processes? Or an in-depth market survey, including reading blogs and posts on sites like this?

Did they invest in technology to satisfy demands for group buys? People on this site are paying as much if not more than a current production Lyman mold to custom mold makers to duplicate what are primarily Ideal/Lyman designs.. Why haven't they developed various "series" of limited production molds in different categories, much like S & W has reincarnated various traditional calibers based on the basic N frame. Why not team up with Ruger and offer a boxed set with single action revolver in a traditional caliber along with a numbered mold in a traditional weight/form? There are so many things that could be done!

Look at all the innovative products Lee has offered in all facets of reloading. I'd like to compare Lee's and Lyman's annual sales figures/units sold in ANY comparable category.

Just my $0.02. YMMV :-)

You know Perfessor I agree with you to a certain extent but the BIG issue for what I've seen posted here has been an area that ALL American companies have fallen on their face with recently with very few exceptions -- CUSTOMER SERVICE AFTER THE SALE!

Now I know the mold business is a fraction of Lymans current bottom line but customer service will make or break a business via word of mouth sooner or later.......unless you're Microsoft and have a huge monopoly on things. Everyone's "circle of friends" more or less extends to around 300 people and for each one of those people they in turn know 300 people. In the reloading world word can spread awful fast.

If these companies (and Lyman is not the only one.....) would realize that all they have to do is have courteous, caring customer reps on the phones they would do themselves a huge favor. My most recent example is a company I LOVE to death -- Ruger. Never had a bad gun from them (I know I'm gonna get flamed for that one....) but I needed an M77 of my wife's either rebarreled or set back a turn. Called Ruger Customer service about that and the only response I got was "Send us the rifle and when we evaluate it we'll send you the price and then you can decide whether you want us to send it back or not". I couldn't even ask any questions, the rep was rude, didn't want to talk or even discuss options -- now that may not have been an option for her. But to take five minutes just to make a client get a warm fuzzy about the product takes NO effort at all, just a caring attitude which is what a lot of companies have forgotten about.

Now about Lee products and especially Midway USA? Product is iffy, takes some work to make Lee molds perform properly.........BUT if you take the time to do that they work just as fine as the expensive molds AND if you've got a problem with one of their products they take care of it NOW. I recently had a .458/405 grain mold that one of the locating pins fell out of after about 20 casts -- trying to break it in so I could Lee-ment it. Since it was new I sent it back to Midway at a cost of $5.45 shipping to me. You know the response I got?

"Thank you Mr. Armfield for returning this product to us. We have immediately shipped you a new Lee mold inspected by hand for quality AND HAVE REFUNDED YOUR $5.45 SHIPPING EXPENSE. We have shipped this to you two day UPS at our expense and are very sorry you had this issue" I'll buy from them again the instant I need something and have money for it, hands down.

I have had the same response from Lee Precision themselves and I can buy three new Lee molds for the same price as one of the other guys molds and get great service.

Since I'm on my soapbox let me mention another company that has no-bull, no hassle customer service -- Dillon precision. You call them with a problem and they take care of it NOW and THANK YOU for bringing it to their attention. Love those Blue Press mags!

Sorry to be so long winded but this forum has really opened my eyes to some things.

Art

[TAWILDCATT]

STAR: I think you have it right.lyman cuts with cherries,and that takes a quality tool maker.and if they use it to long it cut small. lyman used to mark them small.an lyman it self is a small companie its the combine that is big.lyman has not been LYMAN in many yrs.
I think RCBS presses are cast in china,but they are machined in USA.thanks to enviormentlists.there are not many foundries left.Lyman presses were cast in Drapers in hopedale Mass.my club is next door.drapers was bought rockwell.
who makes rcbs and lyman lubers?????look in old lyman cat and you will see both models.also have any one realsed lyman may be overwelmed, no excuse,but dot bother your wife when she has her FRIEND.

by the way I have 3, 4 cavity lymans 38 WC ,38 DOUBLE end, and a 45acp SWC.I dont use but I would like to get fair price,2 have handles the 38s.no rust.oiled.
:coffee:
pm me

[TAWILDCATT]

I have one machine shop in this county,and they are more CNC load centers.I did get a barrel fitted.
I dont see any attempt to have schooling for trades.the bricklayers and carpenters would be hung up north.
this country has emphsised colledge far to much.most in south are not college types.my cousin a retired teacher runs me down because I dont think highly of educated people.she does not know the bill of rights or the constitution.I am a graduate of Wentworth Istitute in Boston and have had advanced electrical courses.but I am not of the elited educated class.no wonder the kids dont learn.
we have few machinists,so how can we expect to run factories.I have one son who learned aircraft business administration.He is supposed to start a repair businees in NC.I will know next week when he gets here from cal.
and win went out because they never upgraded their machines I know as I saw some in one of their plants in mass,and their conn plant was bad.FN owns them now and make win 70 in columbia SC where they make M16.:bigsmyl2:

[StarMetal]

I have one machine shop in this county,and they are more CNC load centers.I did get a barrel fitted.
I dont see any attempt to have schooling for trades.the bricklayers and carpenters would be hung up north.
this country has emphsised colledge far to much.most in south are not college types.my cousin a retired teacher runs me down because I dont think highly of educated people.she does not know the bill of rights or the constitution.I am a graduate of Wentworth Istitute in Boston and have had advanced electrical courses.but I am not of the elited educated class.no wonder the kids dont learn.
we have few machinists,so how can we expect to run factories.I have one son who learned aircraft business administration.He is supposed to start a repair businees in NC.I will know next week when he gets here from cal.
and win went out because they never upgraded their machines I know as I saw some in one of their plants in mass,and their conn plant was bad.FN owns them now and make win 70 in columbia SC where they make M16.:bigsmyl2:

TAWILDCATT,

Oooooh Man! Education talk, especially in the South, is as dangerous as talking religion and politics. You know the old myth: Northerners have better schools and a better education then Southerners. I grew up in the North. I have also lived pretty much all around the country. I'm now in TN. Here's how I see education. I see it as if the family you come from was poverty lever and there was no money for anything, alone education....the education is going to lack. Further more I see lot's of kids here in TN quit school. Lot of the reason is having to work to help support the family. Now to put this dang education thing into perspective, we're all the same people (unless you recently immigrated). You can't say one area of the country produces more intelligent people. If you do I feel you're a racist. Things have changed a lot and there are many equally good schools around the country.

How do I see people that got a further education? I respect them. I respect for having the drive to continue that education and actually achieve it. Are they a better person then you? No. I see education where grammar school is sharpening the knife on a whet stone and college as honing that knife on leather. Many famous people in this world, who invented great things, were not college educated. I was told when I was young that you can learn something from everyone....every single person in this world...can teach you at least one thing. I have found that to be true.

Yes that new Winchester plant is in SC where they make the M16 too and it's all state of the art. About time the South makes some quality guns huh?

Joe

[HORNET]

As an FYI, I did see a copy of a letter from RCBS quoted on here a while back where RCBS said that they had moved the castings for the presses to China but has so many problems that they moved the casting operations back to the U.S. Gee, defective castings from China, imagine that.
IIRC, Lyman did go through and rebuild/replace a lot of their machining equipment in the early '70's (sold a LOT of returned molds at $5.00 a set). Unfortunately, it was probably the last time they spent any money on machinery upkeep. Cuts into the profits, you know.

[theperfessor]

There are two kinds of people that get on my nerves:

1. People who think they are better than everybody else because they have a formal education.

2. People who think they are better than everybody else because they don't need a formal education.

However you do it, try to learn something new every day.

[HollandNut]

Agree 100% perfesser .. :!:

Peeps that get on my nerves [smilie=b:


Those educated beyond their intelligence level ... ;-)

And there's a bunch a them floating around ..

[troy_mclure]

as to the education thing, i grew up dirt poor, in southern ohio. our school books were at least 6yrs old, and from other states. so i know i had a poor education.

i had no opportunities for further education past high school. i knew from a young age that if i wanted to succeed in life i had to get out of my Podunk town, and the only way to do that was the military.

i thought about college after i got out of the army, but i decided it just wasnt for me, so i went to a trade school.
now that i have a skilled trade i have a job, unlike many, many college grads these days, even law students are having trouble finding jobs.

the major differences between a trade school, and a college: a college gives you knowledge of a job, a trade school gives you a SKILL to do a job.

these days having a skill is much more valuable than having knowledge.

[Blacksmith]

Education is all about learning. There are many ways of learning in life. Some highly educated people have very little formal schooling and some highly schooled people have very little education. However most people have education/knowledge about some things that you know very little about. Whether someone’s education has been through formal schooling, the school of hard knocks, or just learning life’s lessons they have knowledge you don’t and if they are willing to share that knowledge you will learn something and improve your own education. So as the perfessor says “Try to learn something everyday.” I have found that by paying attention and listening to other people regardless of their schooling or station in life I have learned many things to increase my own knowledge/education.

There is a whole world of education to be learned on the Cast Boolits Forum and I learn many new things each day.

Blacksmith

:hijack:

[HollandNut]

We have two ears and one mouth , now if we'd listen twice as much as we speak ...

Intelligence and ingnorance are highly dependent on the subject ..

[dominicfortune00]

How about we call the Lyman products we like and work well for us Ideal; as they were in the golden age; sadly now past.

Any of their products that don't work well for us or bad customer service we can call Lyman.

[LAH]

I've had mixed results when dealing with RCBS, Magma, & Ballisti-Cast. I've had nothing but good results when dealing with Lyman & Redding/Saeco.

In fairness to the board the last casting item dealings with any of them was 2003.

[montana_charlie]

I've seen this thread growing, but never had anything special to add.

I ran across this yesterday evening...
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14589
CM

[45nut]

from klw:


I don't know why some people have to spend so much effort being so nasty.

from the man that wished cancer upon me.

now that's special.

[Red River Rick]

I guess that expressing some constructive critism towards a company is not a good thing...........in someone else's mind. But, wishing ill health towards individuals is OK?

RRR

[bigboredad]

I'm so glad I looked at this forum this morning I've been thinking of a lubrisizer and midway has a pretty good kit from lyman for a good price but now it looks like Ill go green thanks recluse you probably just saved me from a big headache

[45nut]

just some background on klw and his crusade,,

back in '03 or '04 someone started a thread about klw and his position that wheelweight alloy was completely unsuitable for our use, he was incensed that I allowed a thread debating his absolute authority and knowledge and demanded I remove the thread.
I did not since it was quite contrary to actual experience of myself and others here.

He was quite pissed that I would not remove the thread,, in my attempt to calm the matter I gave him my phone number for a chat, a practice I continue to this day.

Well, in the course of that phone call he stated his wish, not just once but many times his desire that I should get cancer and die a horrible painful lingering death.

Since that time his desire to give this forum, and myself a bad rep, and has acted many times in calling different vendors and demanding they pull their support over threads that pop up here from time to time that bring to light actual experiences that were not favorable to the manufacturer.

Everyone knows every manufacturer has a 100% record right? And nobody has ever made a bad product or failed to resolve any issue in favor of a customer 110%.

Well, klw,, kenneth l walters has made it his mission to wander the trails and spew his hate absolving all manner of mistakes,, except his own and seeking to discredit myself and the membership here.
So far, I have not, to my knowledge anyway, developed the cancer he so wished inside my body, but he is certainly fitting the description of a cancer out in the meat world.

Just my nickle of information for you all.

[montana_charlie]

Seems to me everyone is ignoring the fact one of our own didn't get his own way and contacted Lyman about the type of treatment they could expect here. That's what led to their leaving.
So...was klw the guy who got Lyman to pull their sponsorship from this site?
CM

[45nut]

yep,, and he also called Hornady among others.

[waksupi]

I DO wish I had saved the PM's I got from klw. I believe the board members would have found them VERY interesting reading.

[Maven]

"Back in '03 or '04 someone started a thread about klw and his position that wheelweight alloy was completely unsuitable for our use, he was incensed that I allowed a thread debating his absolute authority and knowledge and demanded I remove the thread."

All, That "troublemaker" may have been me. You see, klw made that claim on the AR forum and I politely said that if WW CB's are so inaccurate, no one told my rifles about it. I then mentioned the brouhaha here and others refuted klw's claims quite vigorously...and not so politely as I recall. As Ken mentioned, the "absolute authority" was indeed incensed/had a hissy fit, snit, or whatever you choose to call it, etc.

[Tazman1602]

just some background on klw and his crusade,,

back in '03 or '04 someone started a thread about klw and his position that wheelweight alloy was completely unsuitable for our use, he was incensed that I allowed a thread debating his absolute authority and knowledge and demanded I remove the thread.
I did not since it was quite contrary to actual experience of myself and others here.

He was quite pissed that I would not remove the thread,, in my attempt to calm the matter I gave him my phone number for a chat, a practice I continue to this day.

Well, in the course of that phone call he stated his wish, not just once but many times his desire that I should get cancer and die a horrible painful lingering death.

Since that time his desire to give this forum, and myself a bad rep, and has acted many times in calling different vendors and demanding they pull their support over threads that pop up here from time to time that bring to light actual experiences that were not favorable to the manufacturer.

Everyone knows every manufacturer has a 100% record right? And nobody has ever made a bad product or failed to resolve any issue in favor of a customer 110%.

Well, klw,, kenneth l walters has made it his mission to wander the trails and spew his hate absolving all manner of mistakes,, except his own and seeking to discredit myself and the membership here.
So far, I have not, to my knowledge anyway, developed the cancer he so wished inside my body, but he is certainly fitting the description of a cancer out in the meat world.

Just my nickle of information for you all.

I just registered there and if you can get thrown off a forum for stating FACTS then I am fixin' to get thrown off as soon as I am approved. I will not be derogatory or demeaning but I will state FACTS.

THIS FORUM has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to be the best, most accurate cast bullet forum I have ever found, and YES I like those "cheap, LEE MOLDS" even though I still love my Lyman and RCBS molds.

THIS forum has taught me to make those "LEE molds" work and cast as accurate as any "REDDING/SAECO" molds and I dare anyone to prove they don't...........

OH! Golly gee, I almost forgot, because of this forum I just found over a thousand pounds of WW "unusable" lead for $10 per 5 gallon bucket. If WW lead is unsuitable for casting my a** sucks lemons and I've got the targets and documentation to prove it.

Art

PS -- I'm happy you never got cancer man.........<GRIN>

[theperfessor]

Read the other post on the Shiloh forum. It's obvious that some of the posters there have never read much of the useful information posted on this forum. I'm not going to take it personally , but -

1. I don't believe I've ever made a "hate filled" post, although I have used the freedom of this site to express opinions and give facts, some refuting old wives' tales, others expressing some level of dissatisfaction with certain vendors.

2. I like Lee molds; I also like and use Lyman, Saeco, RCBS, and H & G molds - and have shared my personal experiences factually with others here on this site. I don't have a case of cranial-rectal inversion bad enough to not use a product that gives me the results I want. Apparently one of the posters there has never read any of the criticism of Lee molds - and the solutions to some of the problems they typically have - here on this site, and must think that a properly made bullet remembers what mold it is made in and is inaccurate if it came from a Lee.

3. I'm not a member of the "spray and pray" crowd, although I'm sure some members here are. The take I get from most of the posts here are of shooters trying to have fun and develop accurate loads with cast bullets for all sorts of purposes. A whole lot of other forums I've checked out have a far higher number of spray and pray types.

I've learned a lot from this site and regard membership here as a privilege. Let the other forums deal with the venal and those who wish to stay ignorant about cast bullets. This is my HOME, and I feel welcome here even when others disagree with something I post.

[Flinchrock]

YEAH,way to go Buddy!I'm with you on this too.:coffee:
A petition would be great,and have that secratary fired that is not so friendly!

I am sure that I spoke to that same "secretary" a few months ago, her attitude was "Why are you bothering me with your trivial little problems, you unimportant peon?" I really was very close to telling that female to go **** herself, but I couldn't quite go that low. [smilie=b:

[Ricochet]

Someone actually said that wheelweight alloy was completely unsuitable for casting boolits? I missed that, but he/she/it lost any semblance of credibility with that.

[Catshooter]

45nut,

Thank you for that post (#72 for those that missed it)! Now that I know that Lyman got tricked by a lying scoundrel into bailing on us, I feel better.

I think I will buy that Lyman round ball mould in .58 caliber that I need after all.


Cat

[StarMetal]

Vindictive son of gun isn't he. :evil:

Joe

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I like the Cast Boolit website. It is really the only one I spend any time on. I will continue to do so.

I like and use a lot of Lyman products. Same for Lee, RCBS, and Saeco.

Life is too good to spend much time being negative.

[John Boy]

I think you have it right.lyman cuts with cherries,and that takes a quality tool maker.and if they use it to long it cut small
Wildcatt, the answer is 50% correct ...
No - the quality tool maker's initials that cut the cherries is CAD and he has his computer program turned off at the end of the work day
Yes - if Angelo who runs the mold production doesn't make sure that QC is doing their job for molds produced, the cut will be shorter than the CAD program for a worn cherry. It's my understanding that Lyman molds are within these tolerances based on the schematic:
Alloy Cx - 0.005
Heat Treatment - 0.01
Friction - 1/64
Angles - 1.0

[John Boy]

If WW lead is unsuitable for casting my a** sucks lemons and I've got the targets and documentation to prove it.
Tazman, you can add one more target in support of WW's and this is with black powder:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Targets/PDRM2558.jpg
There are 14 bullets out of 25 that went into that ragged hole

[JesterGrin_1]

I am not sure he might be right as this is the best I can do at 100 yards with my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 with Cast Bullets. But try as I may I can not get it to shoot Better than a little over a 1/2 in group :)

Bottom two were sighters and top three for group just before going hunting. :) These are from the 350Gr Ranch Dog BOOLIT with 52.OGr of H-322 in a Remington Case and a Fed 210 Primer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0005.jpg

[Recluse]

yep,, and he also called Hornady among others.

OK. . . that explains some things now regarding some of the national brands.

Good info, Ken.

You fight bad information with good information.

:coffee:

[Recluse]

i had no opportunities for further education past high school. i knew from a young age that if i wanted to succeed in life i had to get out of my Podunk town, and the only way to do that was the military.

i thought about college after i got out of the army, but i decided it just wasnt for me, so i went to a trade school.
now that i have a skilled trade i have a job, unlike many, many college grads these days, even law students are having trouble finding jobs.

the major differences between a trade school, and a college: a college gives you knowledge of a job, a trade school gives you a SKILL to do a job.

these days having a skill is much more valuable than having knowledge.

Same here, so far as the military goes. That was my ticket off of a road that was going nowhere.

I'm extremely proud of my college education. I served my country, and in exchange, my country served me with an opportunity to earn a college degree--two of them, in fact.

But my BIGGEST soapbox peeve is with present day mentalities that dictate all kids must go to college if they want to "amount to anything." That is total, 100% BS.

I marvel at the hands-on skill and abilities of tradesmen and craftsmen like welders, plumbers, electricians, et al. No matter how hard I try, I cannot safely grasp the concept of electrical wiring as it pertains to homes, automobiles, buildings, etc. I have an MBA and can tell you why electricians earn what they do, but I cannot tell you how what they do works.

Plumbing? My plumber LOVES me. He gets to charge me emergency weekend rates all the time when I forget that my pinnacle of knowledge about plumbing involves pushing the handle on the commode and hoping the Pelosi-like matter goes "KAWHOOSH!" down the drain. I forget that, and during one of my ambitious home DIY projects where I try sweating a pipe or installing a new faucet for the laundry room, the result is my plumber gets to take his wife out to a nice restaurant or to the casino courtesy of my ineptness.

I think the Perfessor summed up my feelings on education very precisely.

:coffee:

[JesterGrin_1]

Dang I forgot all about Hornady lol.

This one is with the same 1895 Marlin GS in 45-70 at 100 yards. 350Gr RNSP
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin45-70GS.jpg

Marlin 1894 .357 Mag Hornady 180Gr at 100 yards. :) Two groups the bottom 3 and the top 2 after site adjustment. Yep I pulled one into the bull my boo boo lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin357.jpg



This is from my Marlin XL-7 in 30-06 with the Hornady 165Gr SST at 100 yards. These are test loads. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0055.jpg

[Tazman1602]

Tazman, you can add one more target in support of WW's and this is with black powder:

There are 14 bullets out of 25 that went into that ragged hole

Kudo's man. I guess the guy could be right. Here's a target shot with heat treated WW lead out of my .450 Marlin at 100yds.

Keeping in mind this is the FIRST time I've EVER tried to shoot ANY cast bullets out of ANY of my rifles and this forum is the reason I am now shooting a LOT of cast bullets most made out of WW.

Art

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc336/Tazman1602/PA240014.jpg