Big New!!!!!! Shooting Accident

[StarMetal]

Guys, just heard on Fox News that Vice President Cheney accidently shot another hunter on a bird hunt with his shotgun.

Joe

[grumble]

Let the jokes begin!!

Open season on Texas lawyers?

Damn, he missed!

[AnthonyB]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/12/D8FNQDG80.html

[StarMetal]

Was the hunter he shot a Democrat?

Joe

[Topper]

Was the hunter he shot a Democrat? [smilie=l:

[The Nyack Kid]

I heard that the guy who got shot was a lawyer . I hope this is the start of a new fad , i always did want a SxS 20 gauge .

[StarMetal]

Hey Ted Kennedy and Chuckie Shumer....watch out, Dick "shoot em up" Cheney is bringing his shotgun to the White House. [smilie=l:

Mr Vice President, if you reload please take a look at our forum and concider shooting cast...it's the only way to go. :castmine: You'll feel at home here as most of us are Republicans.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

I'm glad the guy is going to be all right. It kinda sounds like the sort of thing that happens around here every opening day of dove season--when city hunters go afield once a year and shoot one another on low-flying birds. I've never been peppered by a hunting partner, but have been more than once by idiot Angelenos. At 40 yards, #8 birdshot still stings ya pretty good--so wrap-around eye protection is--as always--a pretty good idea.

[SharpsShooter]

Imagine the headlines if he had been hunting with Dan Quail and peppered him.

I've been "rained on" a few times when dove hunting with a group of hunters on large fields where we would have several hundred yards of separation from each hunter and it can sting at that distance.

[Buckshot]

"...............You'll feel at home here as most of us are Republicans."

There are elected Republicans who need to be tarred and feathered. I refuse to make blanket donations to the Republican party. There are several pro-gun Democrats who I'd be proud to support.

Possibly a better choice might be "Conservatives"? As a matter of fact, If Hubert Humphry was to run for president, I'd probably vote for him. In 1964 he might have been the devil incarnate, but today he'd be a radical conservative.

..............Buckshot

[NVcurmudgeon]

Today Big Mainstream Media will hit their stride on the Cheney hunting accident story. It will probably be played as a three-fer, gun control, impeach the entire administration, and stamp out hunting those poor little birds!

[grumble]

Been watching the coverage on this story? It makes me want to tear my hair out. For example, I just heard the newsies talking about the guy getting shot "with buckshot from Cheney's rifle." Aarrrggghhhh!!

[grumble]

And another enlightening newsie comment: "It was a 28 gage, so the shot must have been pretty small..."

[twotoescharlie]

wonder why they waited 24 hours before they gave notice of this shooting.
time to get their stories together??

TTC

[carpetman]

Now they are wondering if he had a valid Texas hunting license. I don't think lawyers are a protected species,so no license required. If I'm wrong,I'm sure Wills can provide a link that they are indeed protected afterall he is urr well he is Wills.

[fiberoptik]

I always wondered when the season was for lawyers..... I hope it's an unlimited bag....... :castmine:

[357maximum]

You gatta be a bad, bad man to wingshoot quail with a rifle.

[wills]

Was the hunter he shot a Democrat? [smilie=l:


No, he is a prominent Republican

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3654596.html

[carpetman]

The NRA has endorsed Dick Cheney for president. A spokesman said he is the perfect choice in that he shows no sign of gun control. Cheney said he would need to beat the bush and birddog out a running mate. Said right now there is a covey of contenders,but not a specific one in sight. Dan Quayle can't be found for comment.

[StarMetal]

Not to stick up for Cheney, but what this will sound like, from the report I heard the guy that got shot more or less walked into the shot as it was in the process of being fired. I mean what's a hunter to do, look around 360 degrees before shooting? Not practical. That guy was somewhere's else and was rejoining the party when he got shot. What was he looking at as he walked, his feet? Didn't he look ahead? To boil it down, it's both of their faults, but more so the guy that got shot.

I'm sure you fellows heard the guy suffered a mild heart attack too from a BB that is irritating the heart muscle. That's impressive for a 28 ga and #8 shot, that it penetrated that much.

Joe

[JCherry]

So far it looks like it's safer to go hunting with VP Dick Cheney than to go for a drive with Sen. Ted Kennedy.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Scrounger]

Got to disagree a little bit, Joe. The guy was within 50 yards of Cheney. Most likely they were both advancing parallel through a field. I think you have to limit your traverse to 40 or 50 degrees, then wait till the bird is behind you. It could just as easily have been the other guy shooting Cheney. (Can you imagine the SS guys then wasting the poor bastard?) The few times I've bird hunted in like conditions I felt scared to death. The only place I felt safe was 3 feet directly behind the other shooter and no one else around who was armed. A better plan is for all shooters to be at least 100 yards apart. I never got nervous over thousands of hours on the skeet and trap fields with dozens of armed shooters around but hunters scare me badly.

Impressive for a 28 gauge? The only difference between the 28 and the 10 or 12 gauge is the number of shot in the load. The pellet size and velocity are about the same. The #8 shot is 0.09" in diameter and the muzzle velocity is about 1200 FPS. An air rifle shoots a pellet more than twice as big at close to that speed so we need respect them a lot.

[StarMetal]

I heard closer then that. I heard the gun had shot a bird and was retrieving and the others went on and then he was going to catch up. I guess unless I was there I can't tell for sure whose fault it was. I'm sure this being a political figure everyone will just want to devour the person.

Joe

[KevMT]

Yesterday I listened to the howling and cackaling of two "educated" co-workers as they had a good laugh over this accident. Things like "how can you mistake a bird for a person" where thrown out as evidence of how "stupid" Cheney must be. Now don't get me wrong, I do believe that Cheney screwed up royal here. I've bird hunted a quite a bit and I've learned that it is much safer to keep your party small with a only one or 2 VERY COTIENTIOUS friends. Those who want to race to the birds and try to get more that anyone else are not welcome. However, many of those who stand in judgment of Cheney usually would not pass a "common sense" test either. For instance the two co-workers whom I referred to earlier have been known to wash equipment in a 20 gallon deep sink with a radio (plugged in to a wall socket) purched on a narrow shelf 2 feet directly above the tub of water. When I pointed out the danger they were putting themselves in one of them told me that she is "very careful" around the sink and that she just woundn't ever knock the radio in the sink. I guess a PHd makes one superhuman

[The Nyack Kid]

I feel sorry for the V-P . this is one of those things that would make a sane person sick to thier stomach , shooting a friend with a shot gun ,(which is horrable in and of itsself) and then KNOWING that the big money media was going to make a bigger deal out of it that what it is . the deal is , that it is a harsh lesson in firearms safty for everybody , but the story has been blown (sorry Dick) out of proportion .

[Herb in Pa]

If only.............

[Maineboy]

To boil it down, it's both of their faults, but more so the guy that got shot.

Joe, I strongly disagree. This is not a good scene. The guy taking the shot needs to be sure that it's a safe one. I expect that people in my hunting party will make sure I'm not in their line of fire before they shoot. There are very few true hunting "accidents" The shooter is almost always at fault.

[sundog]

I watched the VP's interview. His explanation of the events are very similar to what happened to me about 30 years ago. I was on a quail hunt, xBIL, and 2 others who were also regular quail hunters. One of them had his father along who insisted on staying at the truck. Dogs busted a covey. I was on far left of the line and swung left picking up birds going that way, finger on the trigger, ready to bust one or two, and --- holy crap! There's the old man standing twenty yards from me and I'm swinging left directly towards him. I had been focused on the dogs and covey bustin' up and knew the other three guys were on my right. I pulled up and no shot fired. Man, was I pissed. That was it for me hunting that day. I didn't say anything, but I unloaded the shotgun and was conveniently in the wrong place to get another shot the rest of the day. If I had pulled the trigger, I probably would have killed him. Not a good situation. Later one of the guys says to the old man, "I thought you were gonna stay at the truck." I'm thinkin', yea, that's what I thought, too. sundog

[felix]

Now, this happened just last month! I was shooting 22LR Eley subsonics out my back door at some small dots on a telephone pole, 50 yards away max, more like 40-45. Just bored to death and looking for something to do. Stopped for a while, drank some coffee, and decided to do it again with some remington subsonics. Ready to pull the trigger and saw a COP car pull up right behind the damn pole! That would not happen again in 50 years! Either somebody saw or heard the shots a half hour before. Just my lucky day. ... felix

[grumble]

I agree with what Cheny said: "in the end, it's the guy who pulls the trigger that's responsible."

That said, I can sure understand how it happened. I once shot at a walking elk. 150 yds or so through a roadcut. I was concentrating on shot placement, lead, etc, and very carefully shot a tree it walked behind. I can see the same thing happening with a quail, concentrating on the target, not on the background.

[wills]

Now, this happened just last month! I was shooting 22LR Eley subsonics out my back door at some small dots on a telephone pole, 50 yards away max, more like 40-45. Just bored to death and looking for something to do. Stopped for a while, drank some coffee, and decided to do it again with some remington subsonics. Ready to pull the trigger and saw a COP car pull up right behind the damn pole! That would not happen again in 50 years! Either somebody saw or heard the shots a half hour before. Just my lucky day. ... felix

Turpentine and dandelion wine
I've turned the corner and I'm doin' fine
Shootin' at the birds on the telephone line
Pickin' em off with this gun of mine
I got a fire in my belly
And a fire in my head
Goin' higher and higher
Until I'm dead

Sister Sue, she's short and stout
She didn't grow up - she grew out
Mama says she's plain but she's just bein' kind
Papa thinks she's pretty but he's almost blind
Don't let her out much 'cept at night
But I don't care 'cause I'm all right
Oh, the sun shines bright on
My Old Kentucky Home
And the young folks roll on the floor
Oh, the sun shines bright on
My Old Kentucky Home
Keep them hard times away from my door
Brother Gene, he's big and mean
And he don't have much to say
He had a little woman who he whupped each day
But now she's gone away
He got drunk last night
Kicked mama down the stairs
But I'm all right so

[waksupi]

I agree with what Cheny said: "in the end, it's the guy who pulls the trigger that's responsible."

That said, I can sure understand how it happened. I once shot at a walking elk. 150 yds or so through a roadcut. I was concentrating on shot placement, lead, etc, and very carefully shot a tree it walked behind. I can see the same thing happening with a quail, concentrating on the target, not on the background.

Me too. I've shot trees like that. One, on a humoungous bear. The cross hair covered a skinny lodgepole pine perfectly. Then, swinging on a walking buck, centerpunched a four inch larch tree.

[Bullshop]

When you shoot realy big boolits it dont matter. A couple years ago I was hunting the bad lands along the missouri in eastern Mt. Had a 74 Sharps 50/90 loaded with 100gn Goex FG and a 600gn paper patch. I was walking up a dry wash that was thick with juniper and saw a nice 4x4 mulie dive into the brush from his bed. I cocked the big hammer and waited for him to come up the other side. After about a minute of holding up that big gun he poped out the other side about 80 yards away. He stopped to look back but stayed behind a fat juniper. I could see his head and horns and about from his middle back but his neck and sholder was covered by the tree.
By then I was getting a little wobbly so held right where just behind the sholder would be and sent that big boolit right through the tree and the buck. The chips was a flyin and the buck dropped in his tracks. I was shootin 30/1 alloy so by the time it hit deer it was prolly getting perty fat.
A real fat wheat land mulie and real good eatin! Them eastern Mt deer is MMM goood eatin!
BIC/BS

[Herb in Pa]

So far it looks like it's safer to go hunting with VP Dick Cheney than to go for a drive with Sen. Ted Kennedy.

Have Fun,

JCherry

My sentiments exactly..................

[Bret4207]

Just like eavsedropping on terrorists, Katrina and WMD, this is all a non-story. If it was a liberal democrat in office there would be NO story.

[grumble]

Just like eavsedropping on terrorists, Katrina and WMD, this is all a non-story. If it was a liberal democrat in office there would be NO story.

Ha! If a liberal Democrat shot someone in a hunting accident, it would be HUGE news! "Man bites dog!!"

[Blackwater]

It's amazing the reaction of the liberals, actually WANTING Whittington to die, just so they'd "have something" on Cheney. The liberals are increasingly showing their REAL inner selves, and it is NOT pretty .... or trustworthy, eihter!

I've been present at an accidental shooting. No death involved, but it is NOT something you'll ever forget, and unless Cheney's like the libs like to portray him, I know he was just crushed. It doesn't matter WHAT your occupation is, these things CAN happen. I'm an old quail hunter, and I know. I doubt we'll ever really know the circumstances, but from what Whittington said in his press statement, it seems HE thinks he's at least partly to blame, and that says a lot to me.

I've also hunted deer with dogs before, also, and in that pursuit, you do NOT get off your stand because the guys to either side of you MUST know exactly where you are, or both your lives could be endangered. And yet, it's not terribly uncommon for guys to wander off anyway, if you hunt in a larger organized club.

I've been nearly shot myself while bird hunting, and I only went hunting with guys I thought would be practically immune to that. I was wrong a couple of times, but being the sort I am, I hit the deck when I saw them swinging my way. A 78 yr. old man likely wouldn't have the peripheral vision, or the quick reflexes I had back then.

If Whittington was in an unexpected place, and if his orange hat (if he was wearing one?) was hidden by bush, and if Cheney was really focusing in on the bird and swinging as per all the advice re same, then it CAN happen, and DOES. Rarely, but on occasion.

Cheney got it right, ultimately, it HAS to be his chief responsibility, but guys who do things they ought not, DO bear at least contributory responsibility, too. All claims to the contrary are simply the "modern view" that there aren't really consequences for our behaviors.

With quail hunting being maybe one of the fastest sports around, when it comes to making a shot, and with older men's perception and reaction times being longer than a younger man's, these things will ALWAYS happen, despite the most stringent efforts to eliminate them. We're just plain HUMAN, and there are spots in time, however brief they may be, wherein we ALL make similar mistakes.

It was, clearly and simply, a bonafide "accident," whatever anyone wants to make of it. It's the damnable lawyers who've made it mandatory to expect perfection from EVERYBODY, and I dare say that ALL of us, individually and together, will all PAY for this sort of super human "ethic" in the end. The lawyers just want the lawsuits that inevitably result from their insistance and application of the principle that SOMEONE is ALWAYS to blame, no matter what. Yeah, that ethic does have SOME logic to it, but only if you eliminate the fact that the law deals with humans. There HAS to be, IMO, some measure where we accept legitimate accidents as such, without placing fault or blame. The ABA will NOT allow this, of course, which is Exhibit A in my case against the @#$%^&* lawyers. If they're FOR it, then a wise man should probably be against it.

All the hoopla over the Cheney/Whittington instance was just the Brown Shirt liberals showing their usual colors, and lack of character. You know, stuff like this isn't very far removed from the way the Nazis started out - using whatever they could, however they could, to get people stirred up, and claim those in power at the time were elitist snobs who didn't give a dang about them, or the nation. History DOES repeat itself, when folks don't know it, and our gov't run schools haven't taught much real history for nearly 40 years now. That won't lead ANYWHERE good, and this is only a warmup.

THEIR guys, (Ted Kennedy chief amongst them) get a pass, no matter WHAT they do, and don't even ASK about ol' Vince Foster! Cheney has this, and he's ..... well, you know. It's a cult of personality, and what happens means nothing. It's all about what can be MADE of it, or tried to, in the press that counts today. Where Truth is the first casualty, nothing good will EVER happen, and with this being the SOP today, I'm afraid this may be the generation that throws away what has been won by so many, many lives, and bloodshed.

If Mark Twain derived his acerbic comments about us from the people of the 1850's to the 1870's, then I don't have a clue how he'd react to what we have going on here today. I don't think he'd be able to comment without profanity, though.