Equipment Questions

[Cheshire Dave]

I'm trying to get started in Swaging. Mostly want to make 22lr cases into bullets. I was given an old press and set of 9mm Corbin dies and a few jackets 20 some years ago. Don't have a 9mm so would like to get the set of dies complete so I can possibly swap for the finish nose forming die for 22 hollow points. The dies are meant to be used in a standard press like a Rockchucker. They seem to be missing the adapter to mount the punch to the ram of the press. I assume that would look like a extended shell holder with an internal 5/8 fine thread to match that of the punch. If any one has a pic or some info I'd appreciate a PM.
Also does anyone recognize this old press? I was told it was a Corbin but the only marking are SAS cast into the handle. I made a punch holder and a derimming die for 22 jackets. I think I can make a core forming die and core seating die but would like a Store bought finish forming die. I work in a Farm Equipment Mfg. plant and sometimes find time to use the equipment. Does anyone have ideas on a lead wire die? Thought I'd try to make one that would work with my Log splitter. It's 22 tons and should work if I heat the die up some as I extrude the wire. Thanks for any help getting me started. I've got a .222 and 22-250 and my budy has an AR so I really need some cheap 22 bullets.
12558

12559

[Bent Ramrod]

Corbin took over Shooters' Accessory Supplies (SAS) and sold their equipment for a while until they gradually established their own line. It looks like you have a SAS Mity-Mite Press, which was made only for swaging bullets. The core seating and point forming dies go in the ram and the base punches and holders go in the end of the press. There should be two pins for ejecting the seated core and the bullet out of the dies in the ram, one about the diameter of the inside of the jacket and the other a thin wire that pushes against the point of the formed bullet.

Go onto Corbin's web site. You can download a lot of literature on swaging and it should have some stuff on the Mity Mite and its successors, and how to use them.

[scrapcan]

When you go to the corbin site look up -m dies. I think you have a set. The large die and the second from left are the core seater and knock out rod. Third form left is the core seater punch (screws into ram). next two slender pins are pushout pins that go into the far right dies which is the pointing die. One might be a flat or round nose, the other is most likely a hollow point pin.
There could be one part missing, the punch that pushes the jacket into the point forming die.

i have not had a chance to play with the ted smith SAS (predecessor to the mighty mite mentioned above) as mine should be shipping in a day or two.

The -m dies are very similar to the -s dies from corbin.

If you are interested in selling the dies I would like to discuss it with you.

[scrapcan]

One more question for you

Is there a bushing/diethat can be installed in the press to allow the third from left punch to thread into the press head and push into the die screwed into the ram?

The SASS press had a punch holder in the top of the press, the dies mount into the ram. As Bent Ramrod said, the corbin mighty mite and silver used the floating punch holder that is threaded 7/8X14 and mounts into the press head and dies mount into the ram.

[Cheshire Dave]

When I got the dies the far right die was threaded into the 7/8-14 adapter. The second from left is the ejector that you hit with a mallet or hand. The 3rd from left is the nose forming punch and either threads into the adapter to be used in the SAS or I assume would thread into a missing adapter for a reloading press ram. The 2 pins are ejectors for the SAS press. I don't know what the dies are worth but am interested in getting set up for 22s so would be glad to sell or trade. I'll PM soon.
I forgot to mention the punch has a bleed hole and the far right die has a rod that ejects the base of the bullet either with the pin or plunger depending on which type of press you use. Not as complicated as a rifle bullet die I guess.

[7of7]

A quote from Dave Corbin's Site.
http://www.corbins.com/product.htm#rdies

Silver Press

The Corbin Silver Press is a discontinued model that was replaced by the more powerful and versatile S-Press. The Silver Press is similar to the Mity Mite press originally developed by SAS dies and produced by Corbin in the early 1970s. It was a horizontal stroke swaging machine that did much to popularize the concept of home bullet making and custom bullet making as a cottage industry.

The CSP-3 press only used type -M dies, which were 3/4-inch diameter but had a 5/8-24 threaded tendon to fit the ram. The press design was such that the ram and die moved back into the cast frame on the back stroke, so a larger die could not be put into the ram. The CSP-1 S-Press used a system where the die did NOT retract into the frame of the press, so nearly any size die could be used. Both type -M and type -S (1-inch OD) dies screw directly into the ram of the CSP-1 press.

The CSP-3 is shown only for reference and historical value. Books and printed literature discussing this press should be regarded as obsolete historical information. Parts are kept in stock for repair of existing Silver Presses. Any new purchase of an entry level swaging press should be the CSP-1 S-Press, which has a number of advantages and would cost no more to build today.

[Cheshire Dave]

A quote from Dave Corbin's Site.
http://www.corbins.com/product.htm#rdies

Silver Press

The Corbin Silver Press is a discontinued model that was replaced by the more powerful and versatile S-Press. The Silver Press is similar to the Mity Mite press originally developed by SAS dies and produced by Corbin in the early 1970s. It was a horizontal stroke swaging machine that did much to popularize the concept of home bullet making and custom bullet making as a cottage industry.

The CSP-3 press only used type -M dies, which were 3/4-inch diameter but had a 5/8-24 threaded tendon to fit the ram. The press design was such that the ram and die moved back into the cast frame on the back stroke, so a larger die could not be put into the ram. The CSP-1 S-Press used a system where the die did NOT retract into the frame of the press, so nearly any size die could be used. Both type -M and type -S (1-inch OD) dies screw directly into the ram of the CSP-1 press.

The CSP-3 is shown only for reference and historical value. Books and printed literature discussing this press should be regarded as obsolete historical information. Parts are kept in stock for repair of existing Silver Presses. Any new purchase of an entry level swaging press should be the CSP-1 S-Press, which has a number of advantages and would cost no more to build today.

Thanks for the info. Since I'm trying to make the dies I'll just have to make this old timer work.

[scrapcan]

I am still not sure if you have a profile die or just a LSWC die. Does the small die with 5/8 threads that will thread into the ram have a nose profile in it?

You can make the dies you want and run them in reverse of what the SASS/Mighty Mite would do. Make your dies fit the top of pres and make an adapter to push the punch on the ram.

The -T designation on the box should indicate they have a T-slot punch and would have been type -R dies (reloading press style). But since they are for the mighty mite they may be a adaptation for using the -r dies in place of the -m dies.

[Cheshire Dave]

If I were to make bullets with these dies I would just use the SAS press. I just want to make them work in a standard press so I can sell them and get dies to make 22 bullets in the SAS press. Here is a pic showing what order the dies would go to use a standard press. They are just missing an adapter to fit the ram of a standard press. I plan to make one shaped like a long shell holder with a 5/8 internal thread to take the threaded end of the punch.
12621

[Cheshire Dave]

A quote from Dave Corbin's Site.
http://www.corbins.com/product.htm#rdies

Silver Press

The Corbin Silver Press is a discontinued model that was replaced by the more powerful and versatile S-Press. The Silver Press is similar to the Mity Mite press originally developed by SAS dies and produced by Corbin in the early 1970s. It was a horizontal stroke swaging machine that did much to popularize the concept of home bullet making and custom bullet making as a cottage industry.

The CSP-3 press only used type -M dies, which were 3/4-inch diameter but had a 5/8-24 threaded tendon to fit the ram. The press design was such that the ram and die moved back into the cast frame on the back stroke, so a larger die could not be put into the ram. The CSP-1 S-Press used a system where the die did NOT retract into the frame of the press, so nearly any size die could be used. Both type -M and type -S (1-inch OD) dies screw directly into the ram of the CSP-1 press.

The CSP-3 is shown only for reference and historical value. Books and printed literature discussing this press should be regarded as obsolete historical information. Parts are kept in stock for repair of existing Silver Presses. Any new purchase of an entry level swaging press should be the CSP-1 S-Press, which has a number of advantages and would cost no more to build today.

Thanks 7of7 now I know it uses m-dies the Corbin website makes more sence. I'll post again when I get this old press making 22 bullets again.

[scrapcan]

Cheshire Dave,

Yep the press will use -m dies or dome adaptation of -r dies/7/8x14 dies with a modified punch to fit the press ram. You may be able to use this die as a pattern for your 22 dies.

Per your pm , the die shown above are definitely adapted for use in the SASS/mighty mite press and is LSWC die, the same as the -S type that I have. It should still be desireable to others. Keep us in the loop on you die making adventure.

[Lead pot]

If I were to make bullets with these dies I would just use the SAS press. I just want to make them work in a standard press so I can sell them and get dies to make 22 bullets in the SAS press. Here is a pic showing what order the dies would go to use a standard press. They are just missing an adapter to fit the ram of a standard press. I plan to make one shaped like a long shell holder with a 5/8 internal thread to take the threaded end of the punch.
12621

That die set would work in the RCBS Big Max A-4 loading press.
All you would need is to get a 7/8X14 X 5/8X24 reducing bushing for the Ram.
The Big Max ram is threaded with 7/8X14 thread for there case holder.

LP.

[Cheshire Dave]

Thanks lead pot. I think I will just post them for sale and try to work with who ever is interested to make them work in their press.
Any ideas about lead wire extrusion die anybody?

[Lead pot]

I made my wire extruder using a two stage log splitter pump and a die using a 2" schedule 160 pipe for the die body and weld a 3/4 plate at the end of the die body with gussets back to the beam flange.
Turned the cylinder ram down to fit the inside of the die body.
Bore a hole for the diameter wire you want, and you should counter bore the hole with a slightly larger diameter bit so the lead flows better and it will spit wire out like it was spaghetti.
For the lead ingot mould I split a 1 1/4" pipe.
You can use a two stage log splitter pump and a 6-8 horse motor to run it and a two way valve.
That will just about twist a 6" wide flange I beam.

[Cheshire Dave]

Thanks for the help. I hope to be able to pull the splitting wedge and adapt the extrusion die and still be able to use the log splitter for what I bought it for . I think the wife might not like it If she ran out of firewood....Thought I might use a insert in the die so I could make more then one size of wire.

[7of7]

That is next on my list, figuring a way to extrude lead... I don't have a log splitter so that is pretty much out of the question. And I don't know anyone local that has the equipment......

[pjh421]

Would a 20 ton bottle jack work to provide the power? It would be slow but cheaper than a log splitter.

Paul

[scrapcan]

Look up the thread started by Georgeld, he was working on a hydraulic driven extruder.

[Lead pot]

Cheshire Dave.
You don't need to give up your labor saving Log splitter you can use a hydraulic bottle jack.
But a heavy I beam is almost a must.

[scrapcan]

Lead Pot,

Do you got pictures or a drawing of the design ideas? I would be interested in seeing a discussion and pictures of the extruding die.

[Lead pot]

manleyjt

No I dont have that setup anymore.
That was sold with the wood burner and chain saws when I got tired cutting wood and airing out the smoke smell in the house[smilie=1::-D

[7of7]

Would a 20 ton bottle jack work to provide the power? It would be slow but cheaper than a log splitter.

Paul

you'd need to build a framework that will hold the dies, and that would have to go around the bottom of the jack,... I have seen table top 6 ton presses, that use a hydraulic bottle jack.
A 3.5 inch bore, will normally have a rod diameter of 1.5 inches. With that in mind, Corbin's Hydro Press, does not exceed 2000 psi on the hydraulics.
Depending on how small or how large you make the extruder or the diameter of the wire in relation to the billet size will also have a bearing on force required.
Check this out, a section on lead wire extruding,, Lead Wire Extrusion (http://www.swage.com/ebooks/tb-4.htm#chapt2)

[pjh421]

7of7

That's good reading. I have a couple of tool & diemaker friends. They said they would help me if I had a drawing and some dimentions. Of course the main problem is not making lead wire. Its making a die set that can use WW wire because WW is what I have a lot of.

Paul

[Lead pot]

A 20 ton bottle jack wont do it unless you make a link ( lever ) to increase force of the ram, a cam like you will see on a loader bucket.
You might get by with a 50 ton but you will have to make a return because the ram will sometimes stick in the die from the lead that bleeds by the ram and die body.
When I build my log splitter the pump, cylinder and two way valve was around $400, and the rest I had on the scrap pile like the short section of the beam and 6" pipe I used for the axel and oil reservoir.
But if you have a farm junk yard near you can cut the cost building it.
For the die you almost need a lathe to cut a cone to reduce the pressure to reduce the ingot to make it flow better.
The first die I made didn't last long even using sced 160 pipe, it bulged the side wall using a flat plate for the base with just one hole and lead would bleed past the ram.
Then I used two holes of two diameter cores I use for the .40 and .45 I put in the side of the die and that worked.
If you dont have the equipment, welder, lathe, grinder, cutting torch, drill press, and the ability to see what you want to accomplish, buy your wire.

[7of7]

I can see exactly what I want,... just don't have the needed equipment to do the job... So, I will be buying wire, until one of two things happens, I find someone who has the equipment, or I obtain the equipment.

[shooterg]

from one of their older books.

[pjh421]

One of the drawbacks to purchasing lead wire is that the shipping costs exceed the value of the wire. It sure would be nice to be able to form boolits from WW wire without buying a commercial press and dies.

Paul

[scrapcan]

shootereg,

can you give us the full reference for the book? may make it easier for some to come up with it.

[MIBULLETS]

Try Crown Metals in Milwakee Wisconsin for lead wire. I just got 100 lb for $1.50/lb plus shipping. I think it was $176.00 total after shipping. I have not seen it much better than that lately.

[pjh421]

MIBULLETS,

That looks like a good supplier (close) and the price you posted was reasonable. Thanks.

Paul

[7of7]

Try Crown Metals in Milwakee Wisconsin for lead wire. I just got 100 lb for $1.50/lb plus shipping. I think it was $176.00 total after shipping. I have not seen it much better than that lately.

Do they have a website you could provide a link to?

[Lead pot]

http://www.thomasnet.com/browse/metals-metal-products/lead-1.html

[MIBULLETS]

Crown Metals doesn't have a website that I know of, but you can email them at Crometco@aol.com and get their phone number. I can't seem to find the phone number.

[7of7]

Thanks for the email address. They have a very good price, compared to what I finde locally. 50lb spools,... works for me... I got lucky because they just did a run and had an extra spool of it in the size I was looking for. I should have it Friday...
Now, I need jackets....

[shooterg]

The plans above came from an old "NRA Illustrated Reloading Handbook", circa about 1961. The article would've been in the Rifleman between 1950 and 1961.

[scrapcan]

Shooterg,

Thank you for the better info. I will look in the bookshelf as I think I have an NRA handloading book from about that time frame.

[Cheshire Dave]

OK this is a shameless plug but I put the 9mm SWC die set on the Swappin forum if anyone is interested.