Range report 325 Stevens 30/30

[280Ackley]

:confused:Nice day today in Eastern Nebraska. Loaded some stuff and went to the range. I have started working on a heavy boolit load for this rifle hoping to kill some deer with it in Oct during the first culling season. Load was AA2495 starting at 24.7 grns and working up .5 grn at a time. Boolit was Lee 200 grn 2R. Cases were WW trimmed yesterday, full length resized and primed with CCI 200. OAL was held to 2.55 because I haven't cast the chamber on this gun yet. Boolits were sized to .309 and lubed with LLA. As you can see I found a sweet spot at 25.2 grns. However, I had 5 failure to fires. This is from a lot of primers that I have been using in my j bullet guns for the past year with no failures. My theory is this and I will post it and let you guys give some advise to a guy new to loading cast. When I belled the case mouth and then seated the bullet, the case did not go back tight the way I am accustomed to seeing it. Instead there was still a slight flair. The cartridges required some hand strength to close the bolt. I did not consider this dangerous because I knew that the cases were trimmed and the loads were starters. I believe that do to the resistance at the neck the case was actually head spacing on the neck and leaving a thousands or two of play with the bolt closed. Therefore, when the firing pin hit the primer, although it dented it there was movement that softened the impact enough to cause a failure to detonate. What do you all think?:confused:

[No_1]

What did the impression on primer of the FTF rounds look like?
Did the primer impression look the same as the rounds that did fire?
Have you fired j loads in the same gun?
Did you use the same lot/brand of cases for cast and the j loads?
Did you use the same lot/brand of powder for the cast as the j-loads?
Have you disassembled the FTF rounds to inspect your loads?
Did you inspect the FTF rounds to ensure the difficulty in closing the bolt was not boolit engraving?

If you have shot j-loads successfully in the rifle without a FTF then I would suspect he head-space is good. Please let us know what you find.

Robert

[280Ackley]

The primers on the right fired, the two on the left failed. I have fired jacketed rounds in this gun with no problems. Same cases different powder, likely same lot of primers. (I don't keep track of lot #s in my load notes, probably should) Today after the experimental rounds, I fired a dozen rounds of cast that I loaded last year (165 RCBS commerical cast) on top on 4198 same brass, I think again same group of primers, feed and fired without problems. I have not yet disassembled the FTF loads, I am worried about putting them in my impact bullet puller. And yes I did look for engraving, did not find any. Just got out the dial calipers and did some measuring. The flare is distinct and measures back .063 from the case mouth. The FTF case mouth measures .337 which is bigger than the .333 case mouth of the fired brass. Loaded brass from this group that was not ever chambered measures .343 at the case mouth. It seems to me that 1.) I flared the case to much, 2.) did not have my seating die adjusted correctly so that the case mouth crimped right or 3.) I need a crimp die
But that still does not explain the FTF.

[Throckmorton]

I have pulled quite a few loaded rounds,with no problems,with and impact puller,fwiw.I just don't put any body parts like my face in harms way...I swing side-armed at an upright 4x4 let on my bench.
re: flare at case mouth..are you crimping the cases enough to flatten the flare? you'll need to.
J bullets most often get seated without the need for a flare,but lead boolits start easier with some flare ,as you prolly know.
We tried 180 grain cast bollits in my friend's 325,and could almost not close the bolt....boolit too long.IMHO, a 170 grain is big enough for deer anyway.
I think ur on the right track re: the case mouth softening the blow of the firing pin.

[Lead melter]

My guess is the same as yours-too much flare left on the mouth which left a little fudge room for the case to move and result in a soft primer strike.. This is especially prone to happen when loading for a straight walled pistol cartridge such as the 45ACP.

Suggestion is to make up some dummy rounds with no powder or primer. Load the boolit as close to exactly the same tolerances yoour originals are. Then adjust the crimp down smaller and smaller with subsequent dummy rounds and mark each piece of brass as to the OD on the case mouth. Insert each case in the chamber and see how far it will go into the chamber in a "free" state-meaning with no hand or bolt assistance. You will eventually reach the point at which the case will drop in totally seating the rim against the chamber mouth. When this point is reached, note the mouth diameter and keep this as your dummy model to copy in future loads. If you wish, you may also sized down another .001-.002", but it is possible to go too far and get a bulge on the case neck which will create another problem.

This is an old trick to verify the crimp on aforementioned pistol cartridges which are often more tricky since they headspace on the case mouth.

If this method does not suit you, just buy the Lee Factory Crimp Die and your problem will most likely be solved.

[280Ackley]

Thank you Lead Melter. I made up some dummy rounds tonight and eventual found a spot where is seating die was ironing out all the flare. However, after adjusting the die to the point where I was getting a light crimp, I found that the OAL was way to long and I was getting big time engraving. Don't know why it wasn't appearant in the FTF cases. I have now established an OAL that just kisses the rifling. Boolit is seated very far below the bottom of the neck. I'll load some up and try the range again when the weather permits. My thanks to you and No. 1

[slughammer]

First a question or two. What distance and is that rifle for sale? :)

Most times with a light hit on pistol rounds we just rechamber them and hit em a second time. Then they go off.

[No_1]

Since you had heavy engraving then I would consider dismissing your theory of the case being pushed forward as the boolit would have held it against the bolt tightly.

I hope your fix works but if it does not, try the same case / boolit / powder with a different primer then same case / boolit / primer with a different powder. I believe the issue is either the primers or powder. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Robert

[matm0702]

I had a 325 stevens years ago and got rid of it like a fool for a Ruger blackhawk.
Today I traded another blackhawk for a 340 Savage in 30-30. Keep us posted on your progress as I'm looking to shoot cast in this rifle. I have a 180 grain RCBS mold
that would be perfect for this rifle.

Mike

[280Ackley]

First a question or two. What distance and is that rifle for sale? :)

Most times with a light hit on pistol rounds we just rechamber them and hit em a second time. Then they go off.

Distance was 50 yards and no.:lol:

[Hipshot]

With the crimping problem, it sounds like you are flareing the brass too much ! Also think about your rifle cleaning practices----if you use excessive WD 40 which is a penetrint it could kill the primers in a flash.

Hip

[mikenbarb]

280, I have the exact same rifle and have the same problems and hard to close bolt and light pin strikes with CCI primers. I have found it likes Federal primers the best and the boolit has to be seated way far into the case because the rifling engraves the boolit far down if its seated to the OAL in the Lyman book. Its an odd seating depth on the Stevens 325's for some reason but they all seem to be the same and need to be seated real deep. I also have a Savage 340C and its a different animal for some strange reason and its OAL is a standard seating depth. I couldnt get my Stevens 325 to shoot good at all with 3 different cast boolits and 9 different loads trying 4 different powders so its shooting J bullets but im going to swage some 1/2 J's up this week to try something different with a shorter FN boolit with a half jacket.

[280Ackley]

I know this gun will shoot cast. It likes 165 RCBS Sils. Thanks for the info on primers, i'll try some Federals this weekend. Also going to go to a lighter boolit than the 200, maybe some 180 FN will work. Any gunsmith types out there, I wonder how hard it would be to lengthen the throat so that I could seat the longer slugs out?

[codgerville@zianet.com]

I have a Stevens 325 like yours, traded some mechanic's tools for it. Had the same trouble you are having with failures to fire. Took the bolt apart and found the firing pin was bowed and binding in the bolt body. Straightened the firing pin and every thing works OK. I shoot 311041 sized .309 and 27 gr. H335. Works good in my gun. Chronographs at 1940 fps.

[mikenbarb]

I just called my smitty up and he said its not a problem to lengthen the throat. He said around 40 bucks to do the work and another 10 for a chamber casting. Im gonna drop it off in a couple days and will let you know how I make out when I get it back and run some cast thru her. Im gonna see what alse he can do with the short butterknife bolt on it because its too small for my son to work properly. Hopefully he will find a replacement bolt with a round bolt handle because I want to keep the original.

[280Ackley]

Numrich is showing bolt bodies and handles in stock.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?chrProductSKU=155920&MC=

Keep us posted on how this works out. I may go that route myself.

[bruce drake]

Those rifles are an unsung treasure. I've been looking for one for a long time but all the knowledgeable people are keeping them close to their hearts.

[TCLouis]

I have looked for 340, 840, 325 and every other bolt 30-30 excluding 788.

Found one in 225 Win that I know now would have made great trading goods, in fact it was the cheapest of all.

The rest when I have found them are at least double what I see bandied about here as a purchase price.