Gonic .45

[725]

My friend just bought a "Gonic .458"???? I've never seen one and have never heard about them. He informs me it shoots a .458 long bodied boolit. Anybody here have any experience with a "Gonic" ML rifle? Any moulds he should now be on the look out for? I want to help him out with good info, but I don't really know what to tell him.

[Maven]

725, Those rifles used to be manufactured in Gonic, NH and were of very high quality. They may have been associated with Thompson/Center at one time as well. Moreover, I read somewhere on the internet that parts for such guns are in short supply and controlled by one person essentially, but I can neither confirm nor deny the truth of this.

[725]

Thanks, Maven. Any word on what boolit it should take? He says it's a .458. Guess we won't know until he gets it home and can slug the abrrel.

[Maven]

725, No, I've no experience with the Gonic rifle (never even seen one in person). However, with a removable breech plug, you should have no trouble slugging the bore. Btw, I read on another forum that wrapping the breech plug 2x with plumber's teflon tape + a coating of your favorite grease on top of that is very effective in preventing stuck plugs. I've done this on my Knight Bighorn, but the weather hasn't allowed me to test it yet.

[Underclocked]

Kittery Trading Post has a few listed in their used guns section. I'm sure they could provide you with more info.

You'll need a long heavy conical, likely 400 grains plus, to get best performance. Lyman 457193 shot as-cast might be a good candidate.

[Boz330]

First off I'm not an expert on Gonic's and did not know that they even made a 45.
The outfitter I use to guide for highly recommended these rifles for hunters that needed a ML for the elk hunts we guided for. I have zeroed several of these rifles for hunters that didn't or couldn't do it themselves. They weren't really built for sabots but full size slugs. I have gotten 4" groups without much problem at 200yds with them, with scopes.
The guns were built by a father and son team and when the old man passed the son took over and literally ran the company into the ground. The old man was supposed to hunt with us one year and died before the hunt was to have taken place. The son showed up to do the hunt instead and refused to check the zero on his rifle on arrival, saying he knew his guns and didn't have to do that. After the gun refused to fire 4 times and of course the missed animals, we discovered that the nipple had not been drilled all the way through. Then he missed a couple more shots.
He did spring for drinks for all the guides at the local watering hole all night though, after the hunt.
My point is that the rifles that were built by the old man are some outstanding rifles and I always wanted one, but the ones built by the son are suspect at best. As Maven and underclocked pointed out slugging would be a necessity.
One of the hunters that I guided several years and became good friends with, had one and may still have the manual. His was a 50 but there might be a mention of the 45 and what size slug to use. I will check with him and see if there is any help.

Bob

[mooman76]

On a curious note. What is so special or different about this rifle that it takes a special bullet? The good things about MLs are their ability to adjust things or make a lot of different things such as bullets work. Would not a Lee REAL or other 45 conical not work in this and wouldn't a patched RB work? I did a search on the net and someone posted that they found someone to mould Sobots special for these guns but they were $10 for 50. Kind of pricey when they don't include the bullet too or at least that was my understanding.

[mooman76]

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2524610#post2524610

I did a little searching and found this. Sounds to me like the Lee 457 405g HB bullet might work in this.

[725]

What a wealth of information! Thanks to all. I'll update whenever I get a chance to actually see this rifle. Probably in a couple weeks when he returns from his sales trip. First job will be to slug the barrel.

[Boz330]

On a curious note. What is so special or different about this rifle that it takes a special bullet? The good things about MLs are their ability to adjust things or make a lot of different things such as bullets work. Would not a Lee REAL or other 45 conical not work in this and wouldn't a patched RB work? I did a search on the net and someone posted that they found someone to mould Sobots special for these guns but they were $10 for 50. Kind of pricey when they don't include the bullet too or at least that was my understanding.

IIRC the twist is something like 24 or 28 and the REAL is pretty much designed for use in a RB gun, but it might work. We always got boolits from Gonic and why they special I don't know, but they were pretty pricey as well. I would think that if you were using BP that a soft boolit would slug up just fine.

Bob

[Underclocked]

Other than the fast twist Boz mentioned, I don't think there was anything particularly special about bullet requirements. I shoot Whites and Gonics aren't all that different. The conical that mooman suggested would surely work well - the Lee 457-405F works very well in my Whites when sized to .451. You could probably skip the sizing for use in a Gonic.

Just cast from the purest lead you can lay hands on. An overpowder wad might or might not improve results. Track of the Wolf sells wads cheap.

And don't worry with sabots. ;)

[725]

Well, he stopped by today with the Gonic. It was beautiful. Robust and well made. He got a steal. Looks like we will try the 405 Lee HB first. Didn't have time to slug the barrel, but a cursory look indicate the Lee will work. May have to size it. Will advise.

[mooman76]

The Lee 405 usually rund about 457-458 so you may get out ok.

[725]

Finally made it to the range. Shot two different boolits: #1- 405 RNFB, & #2 One of our GB's 460 FN FB, each sized to .458. Way hard to load. Tight to seat!! 80 gr's of FFG. Installed a 2X7 Leopold and I have to say it was the most consistant rifle I've ever seen. Have many bugs to work out for him, but it certainly will be an accurate rifle. Every shot was either the same hole or snake eyes at the 50 yard zero line. Somewhere in it's life somebody must have dry fired it as the nipple gave us some trouble. Shooting ended early as a cap got stuck and needs some workshop time to get it off. Will stone or replace it. Next is to size boolits to .457 and see if the loading becomes easier. All in all, a joy.

[Underclocked]

Be sure you are casting the purest lead you've got. I wouldn't have thought the .458 size would be that hard to load.

[Leadsmith]

The barrels are regular 458 rifle blanks that the old man made into muzzleloader rifles. I swage bullets for them and use 458 as the final size, usually 500 grains. Any 45-70 bullets should be fine, in my rifle they are almost too small and 459 would be better. A tight fit is best, sometimes 3fg powder works better than 2fg, bumps the bullet base up a bit better and you get better accuracy.

Bob

[725]

Up-date:
Finally got a .457 sizer and that is still a snug fit. Made a batch of lube (bear fat, beeswax) and together with a Ranch Dog .45-70 boolit of pure lead (no gas check used), I think we are on the right path. Seems to be a slight constriction at the muzzle (almost not noticable). 25 gr test charge of triple seven sent the boolit out with some authority. Several boolits will be tried, to include the GB flat nose 420, the Lee 405, the RD .45-70's, and maybe the Lee 500. My friend isn't available enough for timely range testing, so we'll get it done as we can. Everything is looking like a winner now that we can size down to .457.