The case of the scratched cases

[waksupi]

I confess to a long ongoing problem, with no idea as to solution. When resizing brass, I get scratched cases, in particular pistol, but some rifle. This happens with brass that has been fired and cleaned, trimmed, and cleaned, or just brand new. Small particles of brass comes from somewhere, and adheres to the walls of the sizing die, and with my poor eyesight, I'm quite a ways down the batch before I notice that they are being scratched. Then, I remove the die from the press, wipe them out with a cloth patch and Balistol, scrape any tenacious chunks loose, and clean again. A dozen cases later, the problem is back.
Is there some secret of avoiding this problem? I've had several sets of dies ruined over the years from this. I imagine if this is a common problem, the progressive loaders must be pretty bad.

[Buckshot]

.............You have any nickled cases?

............Buckshot

[utk]

Waksupi,
this has happened to me twice, cases being scratched by embedded "something" grit. Very difficult to remove. Had to use my Dremel with a bullet-shaped felt tip and auto chrome polish.
First time, it was a .38/.357 Hornady sizing die. On top of the sizing insert there was kind of s small "shelf" where a lot of tiny particles had collected. Didn´t think of examining them closer, unfortunately.
Very odd with all particles nesting there, because I always clean my cases in my Dillon vibrator. The particles MAY have come from cannelured brass cases, you know the kind of tire-thread looking cannelures with rather sharp impressions.
Anyway, I rinsed the die with water + alcohol and now only use smooth cases. Ruined some 100 cases.
My other case of "scrathed cases" was with a set of RCBS .32SWL. I got these dies with some loading stuff I bought from a friend. Had to polish out the imbedded particles with the Dremel just like before. Took me more than an hour. The previous owner probably never cleaned his cases. Don´t know if he used any cannelured cases either.

May I suggest:
1) That you first degrease and then flush out the insides of your dies real well, dry them thoroughly and slightly lube them to prevent them from rusting. Thus removing any dirt that might lie there just waiting for a case to pop in. (Degreasing because lube/oil will hold the grit).
2) Make sure all brass particles are removed after trimming, chamfering etc
3) Can sharply formed cannelures be a source of brass particles (pistol/revolver cases)? Or steel particles remaining from die manufacture?
What I have in mind are minute brass particles that could come off the brass as it is worked by the sizer.
4) Use a loupe now and then to visually inspect a couple of cases before and after sizing to make sure no new scratches are being formed.

utk

[waksupi]

Buckshot- No nickle cases. Not allowed in the house.

Utk - I will try a thorough degreasing. The Balistol may be picking up stuff from somewhere. I find it strange that after they are tumbled and cleaned, there are still free brass particles. I don't see any particles in the bottom of the containers after I have ran all the brass out of them, so it is showing up in the sizing process somewhere.

[Buckshot]

............Okay, had to ask. Had a set of Lee .444 Marlin dies and a Hornaday 450-70 die ruined via flaking nickel. I guess bits and pieces of it got on some others as I had another couple dies start showing up with small scratches starting. I got rid of the nickeled cases, dumped the media and the scratching seems to have been arrested.

...........Buckshot

[woody1]

Ric, A few more details might be helpful. Dies? All brands, any particular one that's worse? Pistol...we're not talking carbide here? or are we? Does it occur with only two die sets (size and expand in one step) or three die (size only and expand separately) or both? I find there's lotsa free brass just waiting to come off in processing on most new brass, also after trimming used brass. I also find that boolit lube isn't always removed from the necks in my vibrator, thus a source of gook if I don't clean the necks with a brush after tumbling. Regards, Woody

[waksupi]

the worst seem to be the Pacific Durachrome dies, although I have had the problem to lesser extent in other brands. No problems in carbide dies, as of yet. The three die sets seem to be the biggest culprits.
I'll try changing out my tumbler media, and see if that helps the problem. This last batch that scratched so badly hadn't been trimmed lately, so shouldn't have been carrying any debris. However, a previous batch had been trimmed, champhered and reamed, so there is definitely a possibilty. It seems strange I wouldn't have felt this on the last cases, though.

[waksupi]

I tried out the Dremel with the buffing compound on the felt bob. That, along with some judicious scraping, got things cleaned up again.

Next question. Is there a down side to shooting the cases that are scratched?

I got some Winchester .45-70 brass this weekend, and just finished processing it. What a bunch of junk! Case mouths chewed up so badly they couldn't be trimmed down to proper length to get rid of the divots. Brass so soft, the case mouths were rolling over into a flare, rather than trimming properly. Chamfering and reaming was a real joke. Rims looked like they had been run through some kind of roller, leaving nicks completely around some of them. Five what I call good cases out of fifty. What a bunch of #$%#$%!@$ After nearly 40 years of reloading, I must say this has to be the absolutely worst brass to ever cross my doorstep.

[beagle]

Rick...You mean you don't neck size .444 cases with a .44 Mag TC die like I do????? Work's slick and no scratching./beagle

[beagle]

Ric, see if you can find some outfit that selling off brass from a test fire range. Proof .45/70, .38-55 and .30/30 brass is tin coated and works really well. It tumbles and leaves a satin finish that's easier on the dies.

I have a batch that I'll bet has been loaded 10 times and still looks new./beagle

[JSH]

Rick, I know you probably don't have any but try some stuff called "Wipeout". It is copper remover for barrels, no ammonia in it and will not rust like some do.
I had pretty much happen to me as you did. Only I tried to polish it out with an over sized bore mop and some flitz. It worked well for about 50 rounds and it came back. It must have left a some what high spot because it was the same place. A lot of folks don't realize how much pressure there is on the inside of a die during normal smooth resizing. The foreign material left on the cases from the media will actually burnish into the steel, much like cold brazing, it will actually move into the pores of the steel being the brass is softer.
If you have brass dust in your media tumbling will clean it but that dust will get ya every time. I pitch my media when it starts showing signs of doing such.
Talked a few years back when this happened to Bruce Merkur at Redding. Story in a nut shell, treat your dies just like a rifle barrel using jacketed bullets, every few hundred rounds through them they should be cleaned thouroughly with a good cleaner and oiled lightly.
I will point you to a good article on dies, do a search on "varmint al's" There is a good bunch of info there that applies to all types of shooting.
Jeff

[carpetman]

JSH--For Waksupi Ric you better specify that wipe out stuff you mentioned aint corncobbs.

[fourarmed]

Waksupi, are you lubing those cases? I have some necksize dies that do the same thing, and it happens in hornet and 32-20 FL dies, but I always assumed it was because I was partial sizing and trying to get by without lubing cases. I would tumble clean them scrupulously and polish out the die (I use fine emery cloth or crocus cloth in a split rod in the drill press), but before long the scratches reappeared. It looks to me like embedded brass particles in the die wall (steel dies always.) I have shot this brass for years without losing more than a handful, so I quit worrying about it. I notice I do that more as I get older. Let the heirs fret over it.

[waksupi]

You know, sometimes I don't lube the cases, depending on the polish residdue from the case cleaner to lube them. I'll do ALL of them in the future, and see if the problemm goes away. I'll bet you may have hit the nail on the head!

[carpetman]

Nickel brass seems to be getting a bad rap by all. I like the stuff. If I have a couple of similar sized cases,I like to have one of them in nickel and it makes it easier to sort them. With nickel,tumbling time is shorter. I think the Lone Ranger invented the stuff to match his silver bullets. He could shoot, heck 15-20 times with a 6 shooter. There are a very few that can do that with brass,I suspect John Wayne could and certainly Starmetal,but not many more.