Lee 105gr SWC .358" in 9mm?

[MikeSSS]

Been casting 105 gr, .358", SWC's from a Lee six cavity mold for a while.

They shoot very well in .38 spl and in a Ruger LCP .380 (shoot em unsized in the LCP). The LCP has fired 108 of these 105 SWC's perfectly!

OK, tired these little SWC's in a Beretta 92 FS and a Sig 226, both had functioning problems. The boolits were loaded so there was very little of the boolit front shoulder in front of the case mouth. The malfunctions were very consistent, the case mouth was stuck on the top of the chamber and the case head edge was about half way up the breech face. Note: these were loaded very light so the cases would just fall to the right of the gun. Perhaps the slide was short cycling but a few shots cycled in both guns. They did shoot very well for point and click shooting at self defense distances and the cases sure were easy to find.

Anybody get these boolits to work well in a 9mm? If so, how.

Just finished casting some Lyman 120 gr truncated cone boolits and will load some up tomorrow morning and shoot them for comparison. (Cast for a while and not many boolits to show for it from this two cavity mold.)

I did talk to a local pistol guru, his opinion was that nobody he knows shoots SWC's in a 9mm.

Maybe it takes a bullet looking boolit to make a 9mm work. (pun intended)

Any ideas here?

[putteral]

I load them to the crimp line and they feed perfectly in my KP95 and PT 111 Mill Pro. I do size them to .356. Great bullet for the .380 like you said, my PPK/S loves them too.
:drinks:

[Lloyd Smale]

loaded to the proper crimp lenght they ran like butter in my sti 1911 9mm

[DanOH]

Yep, listen to these guys.
Had the same issues with a KelTec p11. I was trying to make it look like a scaled down version of a 45acp loaded with a swc seated just below the shoulder. Same malfunctions you describe.
Seated to the crimp grooves it functions fine and is very pleasant to shoot.
Nice bullet...wish I had a 6 banger mold for it.

[DanM]

They run great in my MkI BHP, but it is a '61 vintage. Fatter boolits improve accuracy in that one. When folks show up with newer 9x19 pistols, these rounds sometimes hang in the chamber causing a failure to return to battery. Round must sometimes be pushed out with a dowel. I am sizing to .358" for the BHP....

[Cloudpeak]

They shoot OK:-D

Cloudpeak

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/WyoBob/CZ75%20Compact/DSCN1978.jpg

[MikeSSS]

I'll try loading them to the crimp groove.

Thanks guys.

Great group with that CZ compact!

[TAWILDCATT]

GENERALY you need to have the bullet strike the top of chamber to tilt it in line.there are not many autos that will feed empties,and thats what the gun sees if the bullet is short.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[Humbo]

A little OT, which top punch do you guys use for the Lee 105 SWC? I've tried Lyman #43, but it's not ideal. I own both RCBS and SAECO sizers, so I could use a tip for both. Thanks.

[Recluse]

I shoot that same boolit out of a Taurus 92, Beretta 92 and SigSauer 226 with no problems. As others have said, seat to the crimp line. I also size mine at .356. When I size those at .357, my feeding gets iffy. .357 with RN boolits works okay.


A little OT, which top punch do you guys use for the Lee 105 SWC? I've tried Lyman #43, but it's not ideal. I own both RCBS and SAECO sizers, so I could use tip for both. Thanks.

If the boolit is a flat nose (ie, WC, SWC), I use a flat punch. Otherwise, I buy large, deep top punches and use epoxy to make my own custom top punches specific to the boolits I'm sizing.

:coffee:

[Humbo]

Recluse, thanks. I'm going to try that.

[Cloudpeak]

I've shot the thousands of rounds of the 105 SWC Lees in a M&P, CZ Compact, CW9 Kahr and my STI Trojan.

They fed 100% in the M&P, Kahr (but shoots low) and Trojan after I switched to the Springfield 9mm mags. I had occasional FTF in the CZ with this bullet and I think it was due to the magazine's mag lip profile. The mags would loose control of the round on occasion. The CZ feed 124 gr RN Lee's 100%.

The main thing I like about this bullet? It's accurate and my lead last waaay longer than it does when I'm shooting my 45's:-D

Cloudpeak

[Willbird]

Some of the guys are using them in 380. I sent some to a bud in KY and his P3At loves them.

[MikeSSS]

Tried some more 105's in the Beretta 92 yesterday. These were seated out farther, the case mouth at the back of the first crimp groove, they still had the same problem but to a lesser degree. The problem is probably too light a charge.

Also tried some 120 gr truncated cone boolits from a Lyman mold. Same charge but it's relatively higher because the boolits are heavier. These ran perfectly and threw the cases a bit farther.

I use 105 SWC's in a Ruger LCP and they work perfectly. Round count is 171, 42 were factory ammo the rest were 105's. Everything runs perfectly in that little gun.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Mike, could you be a little more specific as to what feeding problems you are having? Failure to feed (round not going into chamber), failure to eject, stovepipes, etc. Also, what load are you using? Would help us give you some good ideas.
It does sound to me your charge may be light and the slide is not coming fully back. You don't want case to "just fall to the right of the gun", it should toss them at least a few feet.

[rayzer]

humbo. i use a lyman #402 top punch with the Lee 105 SWC. works good for me.

[zardoz]

I've been working with this boolit, and the 9mm the last few months. I've arrived at a nice shooting "high energy" level that I feel comfortable with.

The load is 6.2 grains of Power Pistol, in Federal cases. Overall length ends at 1.035" to 1.040". Boolits were sized to 0.356", and lubed with LLA.

They are chronographing at 1302 ft/s average, which comes in at 395 ft/lbs. This is out of a Ruger KP89DC.

These have fed without a hitch in both the Ruger, and a Kel-Tec P11. I did have some issues myself with feeding, until I arrived at the above OAL.

I am attaching some photos of the fired cases, because I was looking for overpressure signs, and they seem OK. Also attaching a picture of the rounds to show where they seat.

Please note that this is the upper limit of what I would personally want to use.
It kicks pretty good in both pistols.

[Whistler]

Forgive me for waking an old thread, but I've been experimenting with the same bullet in 9mm the last few weeks.

My Norinco 1911 seems to have a shallow chamber, because I have to seat the boolit very deep (OAL 1,035") to not get ugly marks on the boolit from when it hits the feed ramp. This severely limits the internal case volume, restricting me from getting any real velocity on the projectiles.

I've heard of reaming the chamber and polishing the ramp to allow better feeding and longer OAL with SWC bullets. Anyone tried it?

What velocity have you guys had when you've reached good accuracy?

I've tried both air cooled and water quenched WW with both Lee Liquid Alox and Felix lube that a friend applied with sizing to .358. The ones he sized and lubed worked very well, basically no leading, though I had tons of it when using water quenched boolits and LLA (in any combination).

[MtGun44]

No need for WQ and LLA is marginal for 9mm at best.

I have excellent results in multiple 9mm with this boolit in AC WWt, sized to .357 and
lubed with NRA formula 50-50 lube.

Bill

[Centaur 1]

Whistler, I'm glad that you found this thread. I bought a Ruger LCP a couple of months ago for concealed carry and I need to buy a mold so that I can load for it. I know that I should probably just buy a round nose mold, but the swc just looks cooler. The only thing that the bullet would be used for is paper punching because I use Corbon DPX rounds when I'm carrying the gun. The cost of .380 ammo is killing me and I need to get moving on casting for this round. I already bought loading dies and I've resized several thousand cases already. If anyone has any experience with this bullet in the .380, I'd like to hear more about it.

[A J]

Check the lips on your mags to make sure they're holding the round properly. Sounds like they need to be squeezed together a bit to prevent the three point jams you're experiencing. I cast the same bullet and size down to .357 in my Star with my own home brewed lube. Load with 3 grains of Titegroup with only a thumb nail thickness of the bullet's shoulder showing. Use just enough crimp to remove the bell. Velocity is about 1,000 fps +/- . Extremely accurate with no leading. This round shoots well in my Springfield 1911, Sig 226, Sig 229 and BHP. Only time I have any feed problems is when the mag lips are too loose.

A J

[cabezaverde]

Is this bullet flat or bevel based?

[MtGun44]

Flat.

Bill

[Fly-guy]

I've been fine tuning my .380 and am pretty happy with the little LCP. I am using a Lee 124gr TL RN bullet with 1.7 gr of Bullseye with an OAL of .950". This load is not intended for self defense, I'm afraid that it might awaken a sleeping giant and wouldn't want that.

[509thsfs]

Had a few loads with the Lee 105's left from trying them in my P225. They didn't feed in the 225 so I took them along to burn them up after doing 2 shot drills in my 92FS. the 92 gobbled them up and shot great. Going to load another batch and really see whet they will do in it. Only had 6 or 8 to shoot last time. Going to see what I need to do to get them to feed in the P225.

The main thing I use them for are in .38's for what I call my wife's "chipmunk loads". Like shooting a .22 when used in a .38

[Elkins45]

I'm having really good luck with them in 357 Sig. Good feeding, accurate and they cut a nice hole in the paper. I'm amazed that a stubby little bullet can be so accurate.

[noylj]

My best groups with this bullet are with LLA-tumbled bullets and leading is a non-issue. This is in BHP, 1937 P-08 Mauser, CZ75, and S&W 5904. For me, the bullets only become accurate if unsized and tumble-lubed in LLA.
Best load has been 3.2gn 231 and COL of 1.035.

[JIMinPHX]

I've been using them in the 9x19 for a while now with 3 grains of Bullseye @ 1.00 COAL. They worked well with Unique too, but I don;t have the load data in front of me right now. I need to update my notes. They have worked well for my recoil-sensitive wife. The Chrony said somewhere around 900-950fps. I've always cast them up air-cooled out of an alloy similar to WW.

It's also a great boolit in a .380 or .38 Special.

Edit: 5 grains of Unique in a 9 x 19 pushed that boolit just over 1200fps. I'm not sure where that data originally came from, so treat it with caution. Accuracy was not so good, 8" @ 50 feet. The dainty Bullseye charge grouped about 1/4 that size.

[Whistler]

Well I guess we have different views on accuracy...
2" at 50 feet is not going to cut it for me.

I need 2" at 50 yards for my PPC competition. :D

[CiDirkona]

I've been working with this boolit, and the 9mm the last few months. I've arrived at a nice shooting "high energy" level that I feel comfortable with.

The load is 6.2 grains of Power Pistol, in Federal cases. Overall length ends at 1.035" to 1.040". Boolits were sized to 0.356", and lubed with LLA.

They are chronographing at 1302 ft/s average, which comes in at 395 ft/lbs. This is out of a Ruger KP89DC.

These have fed without a hitch in both the Ruger, and a Kel-Tec P11. I did have some issues myself with feeding, until I arrived at the above OAL.

I am attaching some photos of the fired cases, because I was looking for overpressure signs, and they seem OK. Also attaching a picture of the rounds to show where they seat.

Please note that this is the upper limit of what I would personally want to use.
It kicks pretty good in both pistols.

How's the recoil on that?

[JIMinPHX]

Well I guess we have different views on accuracy...
2" at 50 feet is not going to cut it for me.

I need 2" at 50 yards for my PPC competition. :D

2" @ 50 ft. was shot while standing, with no rest, from a compact carry gun.

[dogbert41]

Cloudpeak's pie plate caused me to get the six banger mold for sure. I'm still developing for my LCP and XDm 3.8, but so far it seems to be a VERY versatile bullet!

[Whistler]

In no way do I intend to offend anyone, but I seriously question how a person can choose a mold based on a single group shot from 7 yards and another one speaking of accuracy shot without support from 50 feet.

One of the absolutely most important parts of range reports are that we use consistent ways of measuring. Shooting from a supported position from 25 to 50 yards is the only real way of saying anything at all about the accuracy of your weapon and/or ammunition. Shooting unsupported says things about the shooter at most and very little about the gun and ammo. Shooting from short ranges says nothing at all really. All ammo and every gun is accurate at short enough ranges.

[Hafast]

Keep in mind this discussion has taken two paths. Some are talking about using the boolits in question in 380 pistols and others are talking about using them in 9mm pistols. Two similar but very different worlds.

[JIMinPHX]

Also, I don't know anybody that uses a 9mm handgun for 1,000 yard bench rest competitions. If we were talking about a boolit that was going to be loaded in a .25-06 or a 6mmPPC, or even a .223, I would have held it to a different standard of accuracy. I was just reporting what I have seen in common use situations.

[Doby45]

Jim, you never heard of the Swedish 6mile bench rest contest for 9mm?

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn81/devilfrog_91/Motivational%20Posters/dontworry.jpg

[Artful]

Swedish 6mile bench rest contest for 9mm new to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1YPW9DTIIA

just the 500 meter ram shoots

and to stir the pot

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/fhg09_sniperpistol.asp

I have the 105 and shot it out of 9mm and 357 with 25 yard accuracy off the bench it will cloverleaf them with either gun.

[Recluse]

One of the absolutely most important parts of range reports are that we use consistent ways of measuring. Shooting from a supported position from 25 to 50 yards is the only real way of saying anything at all about the accuracy of your weapon and/or ammunition. Shooting unsupported says things about the shooter at most and very little about the gun and ammo. Shooting from short ranges says nothing at all really. All ammo and every gun is accurate at short enough ranges.

I have another way of looking at how I judge accuracy--and that is solely for myself.

I NEVER test my handgun rounds on a rest or vice. Sorry, but when I've had to draw my weapon, shoot and make it count, I never had the luxury of either time or rests or a vice to ensure my accuracy.

When I can cast and load a boolit and then fire it shooting unsupported and get the accuracy I'm seeking, that is my end goal and how I judge how well any given load combination works for me. After all, I've never been attacked or threatened by a paper target.

Cloudspeak's target is what motivated me to buy the mold, and I've never looked back.

I load some very light "powderpuff loads" in .38 Special for my daughter and my wife to shoot in their short-nose wheelguns, including the airweights. I load some other loads to shoot through my 686's--which feels like shooting a .22. Nothing but pure fun and economy to boot.

The boolit works well for me in .380, but I'm cursed when it comes to lead and 9mm--which is why I've all but given up casting for that particular caliber. I have jacketed loads that outperform any factory loads I've ever shot or even those that I tested back in my gov't LE years.

Maybe one of these days I'll stumble on the right combination of alloy, boolit type, load and gun and get something that works for me.

:coffee:

[Thumbcocker]

I have the 105 and shot it out of 9mm and 357 with 25 yard accuracy off the bench it will cloverleaf them with either gun.


Loads please. Especially .357.

Thanks

[Whistler]

When I can cast and load a boolit and then fire it shooting unsupported and get the accuracy I'm seeking, that is my end goal and how I judge how well any given load combination works for me. After all, I've never been attacked or threatened by a paper target.

I guess we all have different ways of finding our favorite loads...
We are not allowed to carry our guns in Sweden. Around here, you get license for competitive target shooting only. Period.

We do have competitive events were reliability and accuracy are huge factors though, such as IPSC. If you train for months for a single large competition, you spend thousands of dollars on equipment and hotels etc only to find yourself with a jammed cartridge or a load that leads so much that gets you on the last place in the tournament, well... you can figure it out for yourself.

In order to feel secure that your shooting technique is good, and to know what your strengths and weaknesses are, you first have to confirm that the equipment is good. That is, you have to know that the ammo is accurate in your particular gun, you have to know that it feeds reliably after several hundred shoots and you have to know that the accuracy is maintained in the dirty gun. When you've got all that, THEN you can start testing yourself to see if you have a proper grip and stance that allows you to manage the recoil but still get your shots on target.

I've never done any 1000 yard shooting, but I do regularly compete with targets placed up to 200 yards. :wink:

Most shooting events around here are 25 meter bullseye shooting and 50 yard PPC shooting though.

[Whistler]

I have been doing some simulating in the QuickLoad software based on the confirmed "good" loads posted in this thread. They all have in common that they have a pressure around 15-16k PSI, which is pretty low for a 9x19mm. It does however give us something to go on when looking for loads that do the job - meaning accuracy without leading with the LEE 105gn SWC.

[Artful]

I have the 105 and shot it out of 9mm and 357 with 25 yard accuracy off the bench it will cloverleaf them with either gun.


Loads please. Especially .357.

Thanks

105 lino/WW about 25/75 - water drop .357 sized
38 spl case 4.2 bullseye
9mm Lee 105gr SWC 3.9gr W231 COAL 1.01 - browning high power
357 mag 9.6 blue dot - 6" Dan Wesson

[dogbert41]

In no way do I intend to offend anyone, but I seriously question how a person can choose a mold based on a single group shot from 7 yards and another one speaking of accuracy shot without support from 50 feet.


Yeah, but it's a very nice plate!

[warf73]

Just picked up my first 380 tonight so I dug this up and has given me what I think will be a good starting point.

[OldBearHair]

Going through the same process as we speak 10-15-2017. Cast about 400 boolits. Passed finger nail test for hardness. Coated with Hi-Tek poly coating. Came out anywhere from 108 grains to 112 grains. Mostly 108 grains. Sizes were .359 to .312. Sized through a .358 die and proceded to load 9 cartridges starting 4.5 grains Unique and was going to work up to???. Had the little woman with me to spot brass landing spots and racked one in. It did not go. It lacked the same distance that the bullet was protruding from the case. Ok, back to the shop. Had ordered a one foot piece of allthread carbon steel rod 7/8. Turned it into a .356 boolit sizer. The boolit from the barrel slugging measured .3553 to .356 around the periphery. The sizing did not make the boolit completly round. The pistol >>>SCCY CPX1 9mm. Considering bringing the top boolit band down to .355. Think next step is to slug another bullet from the .356 sizer. to verify the barrel is truly concentric. What do all yall think.

[paul edward]

Whistler, I'm glad that you found this thread. I bought a Ruger LCP a couple of months ago for concealed carry and I need to buy a mold so that I can load for it. I know that I should probably just buy a round nose mold, but the swc just looks cooler. The only thing that the bullet would be used for is paper punching because I use Corbon DPX rounds when I'm carrying the gun. The cost of .380 ammo is killing me and I need to get moving on casting for this round. I already bought loading dies and I've resized several thousand cases already. If anyone has any experience with this bullet in the .380, I'd like to hear more about it.

Another good mold for the 380 is Lee TL356-95.

[RugerFanOH]

Any suggestions for any taper/bulge buster/sizing die when the loaded round does not pass the "plunk test" or standard gage?

[OldBearHair]

Adjusted the boolit sizer, the .356 made from the 7/8 x14 allthread to when the Lyman press breaks over at the bottom with a small bump the sized boolit protrudes out to the bottom of the top band. Made a 5/8 x 4 inch swager that reduces the top band to .355 tapered about halfway down the band. Now a crimped bullet drops into the barrel allowing the brass to headspace as it should. It seems that the modified 108 gr. boolit is no different than the Winchester Whitebox bullets with their rounded point in their distance from the grooves. Unloaded the boolits with the Unique powder and will try Bullseye next. I am looking for the recommended distance the boolit needs to be back from the lands. If you have had this problem or have the information please reply. Thank you

[Shiloh]

Won't cycle in mine. Hangs up on the shoulder.

SHiloh

[OldBearHair]

Adding more information. I really want the bullet to be crimped in the crimp groove leaving the top band. When loaded this way the bullet will not enter the chamber. Well, I am working on making a cap die to form a small ogive down the first 2/3 of the top band. Finished the cap die by reaming .358 to 1/2 inch deep then tapered the end about 3/16 with a 5 degree tapered tool. As you push the boolit through the sizer (. 3565 to .357. around the perifery) all the way to bottom with the bump, adjust the die where the bullet emerges to the crimp groove. Then place the cap die on the top and strike with a lead hammer. Then adjust the cap die by milling the end down to where it will leave the taper 2/3 down the top band. This process does add one more step to the loaded round. The bullet will now enter the chamber. Next I need to know how much jump the bullet needs to have before contacting the rifling to keep pressure down. I can move the taper up or down by adjusting the sizing die. My thoughts are, should this be successful, is to try to coherse Lee to modify their 105 gr. die with that slight ogive to eliminate the problem we all seem to be having. The modified one could be named for .380 use or something. One more die for them to sell. LOL

[OldBearHair]

I am using the word crimping and I need to verify that the crimp I use is minimal. Reduce the bell to neutral, .oo1 to .002 below. With the case trimmed at .742, loaded a .358 sized dummy boolit backwards and loaded into gun (no primer, no powder) Backed it out with a wood dowel and the groove mark was touching the brass. Miked the barrel and the chamber is .742 deep. Ran a bullet through .358 sizer and seated to .099 O/L and the bullet seats against the grooves. Bullets seated to .108 O/L will go to battery with the lead engaged in the rifling.
The Firearm is SCCY CPX1 9MM Advice as to what to do next would be highly appreciated. Thanks

[OldBearHair]

update to the problems stated in post #51. Problems solved. E Mailed SCCY and Jason called me on the phone. Asked for the Model # of my pistol and he then informed me that I needed the newer model barrel and sent me one. Free of course. The guarantee is on the gun no matter who owns it. The new barrel has a visible polished ring in the barrel and it looks as if the lands are tapered some where they begin. Need to slug a bullet into the barrel to find how much jump the boolit has. Shot a few Monarch 9mm target rounds and had a hang-up. Fired a few Low Recoil bullets and mag hang-up. Then shot some of the 105 SWC 110 / 112 grain 2.7 grs BE and functioned perfectly. With my vision, I am happy with a 4 1/2 inch group at 45 feet in the thorasic area. My sight picture is lacking the space on either side of the front sight and fuzzy looking.