hodgdon international clays in 45 acp

[revolver junkie]

does anyone have any experince with hodgdon international clays in 45 acp im curious because i can get ahold of an 8lb can for cheap but i can't find any load data for handgun calibers also does anyone know the burn rate in the case. hodgdons chart says its between imr trail boss and imr pb

PS this is international clays not to be confused with clays or universal

:Fire:
RJ

[KirbyAUS]

RJ,
Hodgdon International Clays is our Aussie AS50N, with a burn rate similar to 700X, AA5 and Green Dot.
AS50N is the same as AP50N - just a bit bulkier for shotshell reloading.
It's considered interchangeable. Clean burning and meters well.
If the price is right - grab it.

Our Australian website for ADI powders lists loads for AP50N in .45 ACP.

http://adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/

Regards,

Kirby.

[Dave Berryhill]

That's interesting. I wonder why Hodgdon doesn't list any handgun loads for International on their website? They've got loads for Clays and Universal
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[lathesmith]

I have a Hodgdon Cowboy Manual that has International loads for 38 Spl, 44, and 45 Colt,but...no 45 ACP loads. Not sure where to look for ACP loads; I guess if you load for these calibers you could always use it in them.
lathesmith

[acemedic13]

I am looking at a 4# jug of international clays powder. It states right on the label on the front of the jug, loads for 38 spl, 9mm, and 45acp.

For 45 acp it recommends 5.6 grains with a 200 gr. fmj. and it says it will make that move at 911 fps. I have yet to open this thing and load any of it but, thats what the load data ON THE FRONT LABLE says;.45 acp-5.6 GR.- 200 GR.FMJ-911FPS. Hope this helps and gives you a good starting point..........

[skeet1]

I have used International clays for .45 acp and it works well. What I did was use a starting load for Green Dot and work up slowly. Seems to be a good powder.

Skeet1

[revolver junkie]

thanks all i figured i would do something similar i just wasnt shure what powder to use as a base line

good ive got data for the bullets i want to use in 45 with green dot so i should be in buissness

[jarhead jim]

Revolver Junkie,

This is what I've come up with. H. International Clays is the equivelent of ....

Alliant- Promo
IMR-PB (single base)
Viht. N-321
Winchester-231

Jim

[Russ in WY]

Have been using just the Plain/straight [CLAYS] in 45 ACP for long time. Is clean burning also. My 2¢ Russ.

[StarMetal]

Revolver Junkie,

This is what I've come up with. H. International Clays is the equivelent of ....

Alliant- Promo
IMR-PB (single base)
Viht. N-321
Winchester-231

Jim

Check this burn rate chart out: http://www.reloadbench.com/popup/burn-2.html.

According to this one your chart is off. I know that not all burn charts are identically the same and I also know that burn charts do not tell you what the rate that a powder burns inside a chambered cartridge.

As an aside I have an old empty container for International Clays and there is nothing but shotshell loadings on the lable. No pistol loads. That's not to say you can't find a pistol load using it.

Joe

[jarhead jim]

Here is the burn rate chart I was refering to. gsgroup.co.za/contact.html Like you said, no 2 charts will say the same. I would say if you started with 2 grains below the start load and work your way up you should be fine.

Straight Hodgdon Clays is my favorite too.

Jim

[revolver junkie]

ok i got the powder 8lbs for just over $120 with tax. deal of the century no but hey i wont be buying pistol powder for a loonngg time.

i decided to be on the cautious side and took the sugested green dot data. took the max load and reduced it 15% being 3.55 gns have not shot them yet but i figure this is a good starting point btw if you have richard lees book the chart in the back for cavity size is right on the money.

RJ

[BeeMan]

I contacted Hodgdon a few years ago about International Clays pistol load data. I had noted a very few loads in their Cowboy data and wondered about other possibilities. The person I talked with said International Clays gave some unusual and unexpected pressure excursions, so uses other than the very limited Cowboy loads were not advised.

BeeMan

[StarMetal]

I contacted Hodgdon a few years ago about International Clays pistol load data. I had noted a very few loads in their Cowboy data and wondered about other possibilities. The person I talked with said International Clays gave some unusual and unexpected pressure excursions, so uses other than the very limited Cowboy loads were not advised.

BeeMan

Probably why my empty can of it didn't have pistol loads on it. Strictly shotgun powder I reckon.

Joe

[swheeler]

Probably why my empty can of it didn't have pistol loads on it. Strictly shotgun powder I reckon.

Joe

I've got a jug of Lil'Gun setting here, nothing but 410 shotgun data on it, but as we all know more of it is loaded in handgun than shotgun. I've never loaded it in shotgun but plenty in 357. Get the published cowboy load data and use that.

[StarMetal]

I've got a jug of Lil'Gun setting here, nothing but 410 shotgun data on it, but as we all know more of it is loaded in handgun than shotgun. I've never loaded it in shotgun but plenty in 357. Get the published cowboy load data and use that.

That's true Scot, but Hodgdon has lots of loads for Lil'Gun in other then shotgun applications on their website. Not many for International Clays like mentioned.

Joe

[swheeler]

Just looking in Hodgdons basic reloading manual and there's data for 38 spcl, 44 spcl, 44 mag, and 45 colt for International Clays, not a lot of data but somebody is using it in handgun loads. There's been so many new powders introduced how could any handloader keep up, it would be 24/7 testing and shooting trying to explore all them. I guess that is better than the alternative though, no choice, or even worse no powder.

[acemedic13]

Like I said, they actually listed pistol loads as well as shotgun loads on the plastic jug itself. At least the containers I have do. So it is apparently reccommended for pistol loads. They only list 3 calibers, .38spc. 9mm and .45 acp. but they do list and provide load data as well as recommend it's use in pistol. Next to the load data for pistol, it lists the load data for 20 and 12 gauge.

Since this post came out I broke into my jug. I used the recommended load on the container lable. I did not chrono the loads but, they all shot fine. Very clean, and accurate out of my sigs, 1911, and my buddies israeli 45 thing. I dont know about the approach of finding a powder to compare it to. I did not have to. I just went by what they said to do. It all worked out great. If you check up a little on my previous post, you will find the load data for .45. If you want the other 2 just let me know. I will try to post a pic of the front lable.

[StarMetal]

I contacted Hodgdon a few years ago about International Clays pistol load data. I had noted a very few loads in their Cowboy data and wondered about other possibilities. The person I talked with said International Clays gave some unusual and unexpected pressure excursions, so uses other than the very limited Cowboy loads were not advised.

BeeMan

To me that should be warning enough. Remember the discussion we had not to long about about a reduced load of Unique in a 357 mag case? Larry Gibson was very adamant on not doing it. I called Alliant and the engineer there said the same thing. I was wrong.

If something is wrong with that Unique or in this case the International Clays in pistol loads one may get away with using it without incident, but never know, someday it might bite you. Reducing a fast burning powder in a load doesn't always mean it will be safe.



Joe

[swheeler]

like i said, they actually listed pistol loads as well shotgun loads on the plastic jug itself. At least the containers i have do. So it is apparently reccommended for pistol loads. They only list 3 calibers, .38spc. 9mm and .45 acp. But they do list and provide load data as well as recommned it's use in pistol. Next to the load data for pistol, it lists the load data for 20 and 12 gauge.

Since this post came out i broke into my jug. I used the reommended load on the container lable. I did not chrono the loads but, they all shot fine. Very clean, and accurate out of my sigs, 1911, and my buddies israeli 45 thing. I dont know about the approach of finding a powder to compare it to. I did not have to. I just went by what they said to do. It all worked out great. If you check up a little on my previous post, you will find the load data for .45. If you want the other 2 just let me know. I will try to post a pic of the front lable.

sorry about that, my reading skills must really suck- thanks for posting the published data for 45acp!!!!!!!!!

[zxcvbob]

I've used International to load .380's and was impressed with it. Gonna try it next in .38 Special. Keep it away from any high pressure cartridges tho', like 9mm, .40SW, or any of the magnums. Hodgdon's doesn't list any handgun loads because the powder is allegedly peaky and they don't trust it. Keep it under, say, 20000 psi and you should be fine.

[RayinNH]

Bob, I have the Hodgdon Cowboy Action Manual that Lathesmith mentioned. In it they give data for .38 Special with 158 grain LSWC only....Ray

start 3.0 gr. 798 fps. 12,400 CUP max 3.5 gr. 903 fps. 16,100 CUP

[revolver junkie]

well ive ben testing a few loads in my new fn 45 i ended up at .57cc or 4.4 grains they extract and eject beutifully but i fear these may be a tad on the warm side unfortunatlly the next size disk down form .57cc is .53cc which stove pipes everytime btw for refrence 4.3 grains of bullseye just cycles the action but will dump hot brass on your arms ouch. so thats where im at for the moment.

btw the fn 45 is designed for tactical and combat use so its most likely over sprung and is prabably set for full house ball ammo and +p ammo

[revolver junkie]

also i forgot to mention .46cc is plenty of powder to shoot from my S&W 625 and is pretty accuate for informal plinking
i think i might get one of the lee charge bars and try to fine tune the fn load.

RJ

[StarMetal]

Just got off the phone talking to Hodgdon. I got a hold of a powder tech, Mike, there and asked him why aren't there very many pistol/revolver loads for Clays International. He said, simply put, it's not good for those cartridge....can in fact be dangerous. He said for any of us using it to please stop and use a more suitable powder. About the cans that did at one time have some limited load data, well those were early and now do not come with data. He said the only data is some of the cowboy loads. He made note that those loads are in large volume cases. This powder is not good, possibly dangerous in small pistol cases. He said in shotguns you have two things in loading, one is the cases have high volume, and two you have the shock absorbing affect of the wad/pistol column. These two things control the fast and high pressure peak for this powder. Those two things are missing in small pistol cartridges.

Don't use it for pistol cartridge loads, find another powder.

Joe

[revolver junkie]

well illut an update in'ive been working up some loads for my revolver and my new fn-45 i did get enough energy to cycle the slide on my fn but i suspect it may be just a hair on the warm side only prblem is the next cavity down on my powder messure is a little to low so i need to get an adjustable charge bar. although i may just be paranoid i mean this thing was meant for full house +p ammo. ihad to use just shy of a full charge for bullseye for 230 ball to get my 230 tc's to drop them in a neat little pile 2 feet from my feet.
the revolver ate everything just fine and the rounds were droping out with just a hint from the ejector rod. just like it should be

[revolver junkie]

opps just reposated what i already said

[HangFireW8]

I tried Universal Clays when it was new but not International. My limited reloading notes from the time indicated it was OK.

If you are interested in a shotgun powder that does well in 45ACP, try Winchester Super Field. It gives GI performance with 230gr ball with a little headroom to spare, burns clean, and meters very well. It might be a little slow for cast applications, though I haven't tried it for that (yet).

-HF

[Older Wiser Sheepdog Warr]

I thought I just recently say in the new Hornady Reloading Handbook 7th Edition a load using hodgdon International for a 45 ACP load. Does anyone have it that can verify the info?

[Ranch Dog]

Old post but I thought I would add a bit of information concerning my shooting with International in my 380 Auto (Taurus 738B TCP) and 9mm Luger (Taurus PT111 Millennium Pro) with my 100 and 135-grain bullets respectfully. In a nutshell, outstanding performance!

I compared the AS50N properties in QuickLoad against the actual properties of the powder on my bench. It is the same. Then I used the software to generate the data specific to my firearms and bullets. The tested results matched the predicted results so I'm please with the powder. When compared to Clays, HP-38, HS-6, TiteGroup, Universal, and Unique; I suspect it will be the powder of choice in both of these pistols. The ES and SD are higher than the other powders, but the groups on paper are tighter and the velocity matches or slightly exceeds the best performing powders in the group.

Here is a couple of targets shot at 5-yards, standing in a self defense stance.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/738B/Targets/TL358100RF/International/036.jpg http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/PT111/Targets/TLC356135RF/International/033.jpg

The target on the left is the 380 Auto was shot with my TL358-100-RF. The 3.6-grain load produced 892 FPS, with QuickLoad estimating 16.8K PSI. The group measured .98". The target on the right was shot with my TLC356-135-RF. The 3.3-grain load produced 946 FPS with QuickLoad estimating 26.6K PSI. The group measured 1.07".

With a bit of shooting, I think I can tighten them both up and make a ragged hole at this distance in the offhand stance. I did change the PT111 sights out today from the Heinie Straight Eight to the Heinie 3 Dot and I believe that will help quite a bit.