ideal 452 460 be goooood

[Bullshop]

Hey Charger
Guess you knew something I didnt. I had never used that old Ideal 452460 till our trade. Thought I would run a few extra to try myself. Was kinda surprised when they dropped at .457" but the other old Ideal #452389 dropped the same size. Guess they just made them fatter then.
I had to size them to .452 to seat in an acp case but that didnt seem to hurt anything.
Sized at .452" and lubed the bottom groove only on 7gn 4756 with a cci #300 primer and a heavy crimp in the top grease groove is magic in my old Ruger BH 45 acp.
This is the best this gun has ever shot for me. I put a target out about 20 yards from my P U and rested my forarms over the hood. The first cylender full were all touching so filled it again and all 12 made a ping pong ball size hole. Well thats not a reguler thing for me with a hand gun so try again. Two more cylenders and another ping pong ball hole. Whenever the hole got wider thats where the sight were when it went off. The load shoots better than me.
Since its a single cavity I looked at the Lyman catalog for a four. The pic of the current design for #452460 is different than the Ideal I have. The current one has a radious from the ogive to the leading edg of the first driving band but my Ideal has the SWC nose ending well inside of a very sharp sholder. The older design looks like it would have a scraping action the newer one wouldnt have.
So thanks for having me dig that old bugger out. I prolly never woulda used it otherwise. My old 7.5" BH with the 45 acp cylender is gona make as fine a small game hand gun as anyone could ask for.
Am now looking forward to milder weather and some rabbit huntin.
BIC/BS

[Wayne Dobbs]

Try it with 5.0-5.5 of 231 and see if that doesn't please you even more!

Wayne

[David R]

452460 is THE boolit in my 45 auto. It shoots awesome in my 45 colt too. I have a 4 banger. Driving bands are totally square.

David

[Bass Ackward]

My old 7.5" BH with the 45 acp cylender is gona make as fine a small game hand gun as anyone could ask for.


Dan,

Define "small".

I want you to know that I understand how long and boring the winters can be up there. Just understand that there IS help available for ya. :grin:

[fecmech]

I have the old 452460, bought a 4 banger back in the early 70's and it is the best bullet out of my "wad" gun. Out of a Ransom rest years ago the 452460 outshot the H&G 68 at 50 yds from my gun. I would not part with my mould. Nick

[Bullshop]

fecmech
Tell me on your mold is there a slight radious from the meplate to the leading edge of the first driving band. Thats what the pic looks like in the Midway master cat.. Oh yea what does yours drop at for diameter?
I hear so many tell of new molds being undersize or barely big enough, while on the older molds they seem to be on the high side. These two old Ideal molds drop big enough for a 45/70!

Bass Ackward
Small game is anything under 200lbs so some species can clasify as big and small game. That is why when we go bear hunting we have to take a big game gun and a small game gun. Cal's for big game are 45 and up and for small game 45 and down. 45 cal being the break you can see why the 45/70 got my vote as the most useful in that thread. Its the one that can be used for both.
Bass its OK I am enjoying my sickness, and the only real help I nead is a gun bearer. If you want to help with that I would be greatful.
BIC/BS

[fecmech]

Bullshop--I bought this mold about 1970 and it has no radius, see the picture. The bullet drops about .454 with ww+2% tin. I only lube the bottom groove as thats all that is needed. Nick

[Bullshop]

Does anyone have a recently cut mold for the 452460 that they would post a picture of please.
BIC/BS

[David R]

Is 1986 recent?

[Bullshop]

Post a pic soes we can have a look see. Look in the midway cat and tell me if yours is the same. I dont want to buy a new one if its not the same as the old one.
The pic from fecmech is the same as mine.
BIC/BS

[David R]

Fecmech is the same. My shoulder or front band is a little more square. They drop .452.

David

[Bullshop]

Well I tried that 452389 today with the same load. At first it didnt do nearly as good as the 452460. Then since i had the swage press set up with a .452" die thought I would try it as a hollow point Its a little lighter at 185gn but has the same driving body. With lube only in the bottom groove the top groove was closing almost completely but was just enough to allow a little crimp, about perfect for the acp. They came out a bit shorter than as cast and with hollow point what a difference it made. This way they shot every bit as good or better than the 452460.
That swage press is so handy. They come out of that thing with the flatest squarest bases I have seen.
I had a double hand full of Lyman 265gn 44's with gas check in WW on the bench so thought they should be 45 cal. That old Herters press squishes them into 45's with no problem even the checks are the flatest most squair I have seen.
Anyways it looks like I got a couple sets of blocks that will stay with that Ruger BH.
BIC/BS

[David R]

I have the 452389 and not much luck with it. Lyman calls it a wadcutterm, but it doesn't cut holes as good as the 452460. I even tried loading it backwards.

This is why I bought the 4 cavity 452460 in the first place. I also tried the LEE 45 190 SWC. It dropped way too fat from the mold. I size em to 451 with great luck. They don't HAVE to be fat to shoot well in every gun.

David

[Char-Gar]

Bullshop... That bullet was designed by a guy named Ed Rowland and was first introducted at Camp Perry in 1940. It was an instant sucess, but it wan't until after the war that it really took off. Hensley & Gibbs (1947) produced it as their #78 and Lyman introduced it in 1949 as their #452460.

This design along with the Hensley & Gibbs 68 have been the blue ribbon standard for accurate cast bullets in the 45 autopistol.

I have a two cavity nolde and I have been thinking about warming up, trying to talk myself into a new four hole. Mine was made about 1990 and cast bullet .452. Then along you came wanting a Ruger sight!

BTW...I still need an addy to send the sight..and where are my boolits? :-) You having so much fun you shot em all up?

[Char-Gar]

AND ANOTHER THING! 452460 and H&G 68 seem to do better when run about 850 fps. At that speed the make a fine all purpose load in the autopistol. Wayne's notion of about 5.3/231 or 5/BE is just the medicine. These bullets (452460) will run about 215 grains and at that weight and speed shoot to the sights of most pistols.

Now where did you say them bullets are? :-)

[Bullshop]

Charger
Not to worry buddy the first 200 of them little jewels went out on tuesday.
Your prolly right though only reason is I hadnt tried any yet.
BIC/Daniel
The Bull Shop
HC62 box 5640
Delta Junction Alaska
99737

[StarMetal]

I've had alot of 45 bullets. I'll still have to say, hands down, the most accurate one out of all them is the Lyman 452488. Out of tuned 1911's it's deadly. It's also been very accurate of my Ruger Blackhawk with both 45 LC or 45acp....and deadly out of my Smith 25. It runs about 200 grs. One grease groove.

Only thing I hate about it is my mould for it is a single cavity. Anyone know if Lyman made a mould with more cavities?

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Well..strike all that "where are them bullets" crap as they arrived today. Unless you tell me different in the next day, I am going to mail the sight to the return address on the bullet package.

[Char-Gar]

OK...I read the thread and see I am slow once again. Sight is ready to go in the mail. BTW...You really must stop using your micrometer a a C clamp. I checked the as cast diamters with THREE Starrett microments (how is that for a second opinion) and all three measured .454 - .455 depending on where you put the mic.

They are now all .452, the Lee push through die and RCBS A2 press made short work out of them. The cases are preped, all that is left is to lube and load.

[9.3X62AL]

Another HOORAH here for the #452460.

My own experience with the 200 grain-series SWC's is pretty long, mostly with variants of the H&G #68 pattern. These have always been at least decently accurate, and the 850 FPS velocity bracket has also seemed to be a "sweet spot" for me accuracy-wise. It also reduces the recoil impulse enough for inexperienced shooters with the 45 ACP self-loaders to not induce flinch and enable some muscle memory for controls to get "built in".

The #452460 itself is a fairly recent addition to the fleet, a 4-cylinder model provided by another board member. The old 5.0 x Bullseye load did not phenomenal work in a buddy's Kimber 1911A1 target version example. I have a couple dozen of these lightweights loaded to 800 FPS or so in 45 Colt cases that need a test run, too. Interestingly, this pattern was one of only two loads that would act right in the Ruger BisHawk x 45 Colt before it had its tonsillectomy. So, even under adverse conditions (.449" throats and .452" grooves), the #452460 still did good work.