99% pure lead question.

[buckshot&brass]

I really don't have a source locally so I end up ordering it.
I'm told it's 99% pure lead cleaned and fluxed but I get about 10 pounds of dross for 100 pounds of lead.

I also came across one ingot that caused a skin to form on top it was a gold looking skin then turned a blue color and finally bright purple.
Took forever to get rid of it and seemed to make my bullets look frosty in spots and not fill out.

Should I be concerned?
Find another supplier?
I would try to source some locally but wonder how pure sheet lead and plumbers lead really are.
Any other sources I should be looking at or reliable forum members I could buy from?

[deltaenterprizes]

The colors are caused by oxidation and oxidation causes dross. It is hard to get complete fill out with pure lead that is why tin is added.

[GLL]

The yellow, blue, purple coors are typical of oxidized lead. Your lead is probably near 100% pure !
What you are skimming off should be left in the pot and fluxed back into the melt not removed !

Jerry

[JSnover]

Might be as simple as refining your fluxing technique. There are a LOT of threads here covering a lot of different methods. Save your dross and try remelting it one of these days, you might be able to reclaim a good amount of lead from it.

[cohutt]

certified 99.9% pure in the pot:



http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt008.jpg

[garandsrus]

You are definitely not fluxing correctly.... I don't get 10 lbs of dross when I melt 100 lbs of dirty WW, much less pure lead. 10% dross is WAY too much! With what you describe, I don't think you should really get any dross.

Use some sawdust and parffin to flux with. Also, watch your temperature. As you go higher than you need to, oxidation will appear more quickly.

John

[Ole]

certified 99.9% pure in the pot:



http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt008.jpg

Wow you got a lot of weight in that pot.

I start to get nervous when my harbor freight pot gets half that much in it.

[Crass Whackwords]

My experience with pure lead is similar to buckshot&brass. Lots of dross that requires frequent fluxing (if you are using a ladle). Lead/tin alloys are only slightly better.

These materials oxidize quickly and it is made worse by the high temperatures required for decent fill.

I avoid using these alloys as much as possible because they are not pleasant to work with.

If you cast a lot of pure lead or lead/tin you might consider using a bottom pour. That gives you the option of covering the pot, which will reduce oxidation and smoke, plus the bottom pour doesn't care how much dross is on top of the melt.

I prefer ladling for wheelweight but not for BP alloys.

[John Boy]

I really don't have a source locally so I end up ordering it.
Buckshot - no need to order pure lead. Go to a metal recycle yard near you and look in the lead barrels for sheet lead. The Brinell number for pure 99.9% lead is 5.0. Sheet lead ranges between Bhn 5.0 to 5.4.

I finished making ingots today for 280#'s at 60 cents a pound from the scrap yard. This batch is Bhn 5.2 and will harden in a week or so to probably 5.4. My last batch of scrap sheet lead - 175#'s, was drop dead Bhn 5.0 at 65 cents/lb!

When you are looking in the barrels, the thin sheet lead is usually Bhn 5.0

[buckshot&brass]

A little feedback on my part.

Yeah I can tell I need to save and remelt the dross looks like there is some good lead in there.
Pretty chunky looking stuff on top when I add ingots and what looks like fine dirt or rust that clumps.
I can cast for quite awhile then a little more clumpy dross forms and I flux and remove what is left.
After that the constant thin layer of oxidization forms.

I flux with beeswax most of the time although a drop of alox seems to work well too.

Thanks for the above picture.......yep thats the stuff.
Sounds like I might not have contaminated lead after all.
I may have got a little oil in the mold when I lubed the sprue screw area to keep things moving.
Might explain those frosty spots and bad fill out.

I use pure lead for muzzle loaders and it seems for good fill out it needs to be pretty darn hot.

Thanks guy's for setting my mind at ease.

[buckshot&brass]

Thanks John Boy but seems the scrap yards here won't touch the stuff.
What else is pure lead?

Stick on wheel weights?
Lead pipe?
Plumbers lead?
I'll have to find it before it gets scrapped since none of the metal recyclers in my area take it.
I pay about .95 cents a pound plus $10.00 flat rate shipping.

[cohutt]

A little feedback on my part.

Yeah I can tell I need to save and remelt the dross looks like there is some good lead in there.
Pretty chunky looking stuff on top when I add ingots and what looks like fine dirt or rust that clumps.
I can cast for quite awhile then a little more clumpy dross forms and I flux and remove what is left.
After that the constant thin layer of oxidization forms.

I flux with beeswax most of the time although a drop of alox seems to work well too.

Thanks for the above picture.......yep thats the stuff.
Sounds like I might not have contaminated lead after all.
I may have got a little oil in the mold when I lubed the sprue screw area to keep things moving.
Might explain those frosty spots and bad fill out.

I use pure lead for muzzle loaders and it seems for good fill out it needs to be pretty darn hot.

Thanks guy's for setting my mind at ease.

This is what it looks like going through the melt and flux "zone"; First picture was taken at 12:02, the last one (originally posted above) was taken at 12:28


12:02

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt004.jpg

12:14

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt005.jpg

12:24 (no skimming at all yet)

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt006.jpg

12:24 no skimming yet

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt007.jpg

12:28 skimmed lightly

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt008.jpg

[Matt_G]

Thanks for all those pics cohutt.
I had no idea pure lead did that.
I'm saving all my stick-ons and I'm going to smelt them separately, so I can dilute WW's when the need arises.

Now I know what to expect. I would have been freaking out a little if I hadn't seen these pics. :lol:

[buckshot&brass]

Thanks cohutt,
Thats exactly what I see on a smaller scale.
Moon rocks and all.
So i suppose that what I receive is pure lead just a little dirty.

I guess a little oxidization is O.K. since it's on top and I'm using a bottom pour?

I think I'll try to melt down my dross can and see how much usable lead comes out.
Hopefully there is not as much waste as it seems.

[garandsrus]

B&B,

If you look at the final picture before taking off the dirt, there is probably no more than a couple ounces or so of fine dust that is removed.

Sawdust works great as a flux. Throw in a generous handfull.

John

[buckshot&brass]

garandsrus Thanks I'll give that a try.

[cohutt]

Sawdust works, i use walnut media from my tumblers on my casting pot to coat the surface.

what i did with this was just to keep stirring the pot with an old (VERY DRY) broom handle. The agitation and the modest burn off from the handle got all the lumps out. For good measure i stirred in a butter bean sized piece of wax and then let it all sit for about 4-5 minutes and the result was the lats picture- the dust.


One thing to note- this was an extremely clean bunch of shielding scrap, not from demolition but from the front end @ the manufacturing facility. It is basically as delivered by the foundry. You will be surpised how much more stuff comes up to be skimmed from flashing, pipe and stick on ww.

This is the next pot and hour later after pouring out all the pure ingots. It is flashing, pipe, seals, plumbers lead ingots & battery terminals, anything soft. The stage is pretty much the same as the 2nd to last picture of the pure- all the garbage is floating and there is a hell of a lot more. The good news is that a lot of the crap floating contained carbon (tar, oil, wool packing) and what is under the pile of garbage is some pretty clean self-fluxed lead.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt011.jpg

[cohutt]

a few minutes later all skimmed off

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt013.jpg

note how much more "silver" this looks vs the "blue" of the pure. Just a little antimony and or tin makes abig difference even though this is still subtantially softer than WW.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt014.jpg


ingots!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m284/cohutt/smelt%20102/smelt015.jpg

[buckshot&brass]

That is some pretty stuff.

One of the concerns I have is folks passing a batch like the one above off as pure lead.
Surely there is a difference.

The first batch of bullets I ever cast were from a friends stash of sheet lead.
I still have some and they are much darker in color blackish blue or maybe dark gray.
I should check to see if they are the same size.
Nothing wrong with that mix as long as you know what it is.

I suppose I like consistency.
That way if something goes wrong I don't have to worry if it's something in the mix.

Seems you have the pure lead thing down to a science and I certainly appreciate all the guidance and your time.