Winchester 296 and its uses

[mag44uk]

You know how you start musing over things as you are sizing a bucket of bullets?

Well,I have a large amount of 296 and can get more very cheaply. I am in the UK and current exchange rate gives $14 a pound tub! Thats a bargain where ever you are.

The only thing I can immediately use it in is 44 and 41 mag in the Marlins. Dont really need a thumper load as I am only shooting paper out to 50 yards.

I do have an 1893 Marlin in 32-40 and see W296 listed for that so will have to give that a go.

So,what else could I use this in? I am looking at getting one of the AIA enfields in 7.62x39. If its ok in 32-40 why not in this one as well?

Also have 303,7.5 swiss,45-70,snider,MHenry,310 cadet and a few more oldies.

I would welcome any suggestions preferably based on fact and experience!

Regards,

Tony:D

[BABore]

Be very, very selective in your usage. WW296 is primarily a magnum pistol powder. It has certain applications in the hornet and other smallish rifle cartridges. If you don't see any current data on a particular case, I would avoid them. You can contact Hodgdon's for more clarification if needed. It is a very touchy powder that does not allow reduced loadings at all. Best burn charteristics and accuracy come at near max loadings. Period.

[Calamity Jake]

410 Shotgun. I loaded a lot 296 in 410 for my granddaughters to shoot when they were growing up.

Yes there is load data for 296 and 410 shotgun

[Nobade]

I have found it works well in reduced handgun cartridges and smaller rifle rounds, by using fillers. For example I shoot a 7.62X39 CZ bolt gun using 40% 296 and 60% Cream 'o' wheat, lightly compressed by seating the bullet. In my 44 mag it's 50-50. By using fillers you can boost the pressures enough to get a clean burn. The above post is correct though, don't reduce full charges of it without fillers, it doesn't burn properly and you will have velocity variations all over the place.
It will work OK in a 32-40 if the rifle can take the pressure, but I wouldn't use it in a case much bigger than that. If you don't know about using fillers I'd just stay away, as you can get hurt if you don't know what is about to happen when you pull the trigger. Never go above 40% powder unless it is in a very small case like the 32-20, and only in a strong gun design. This stuff will build some pressure quickly!

[square butte]

.30 carbine ? Have always heard 296 was near identiacal to H110.

[cajun shooter]

I have heard for years that 296 and H110 were the same powder. I use them both for Magnum nloads in the 44 mag

[Rocky Raab]

W296 is more than similar, it IS H110. It is the same powder (but from different lots) but relabeled. It was originally created for Winchester .410 shotgun factory ammo, but found use in 30 Carbine and magnum pistol loads. It is the factory powder for Winchester 357, 41 and 44 magnums.

As mentioned, it should NOT be reduced. Use loads exactly as printed in Winchester/Hodgdon manuals. Reduced charges can produce hangfires, misfires or catastrophic high pressure gun failure.

Personally, using reduced charges of it with fillers scares the bejeezus out of me. I wouldn't EVER try it.

[dale2242]

I use 296 for heavy loads in the 357 Mag and 44 Mag. My 22 Hornets really likes 296-H110with light bullets. I have a Ruger #3 and a 10" Contender. I use small pistol primers.---dale

[HABCAN]

296 is right beside SR4759 on the burning rate charts. I have used 16.1 grns. successfully with all weights CB's in .303 Brit, .30-06, 7x57mm, etc. WLR primers.

It is my MAX measure-dropped load for Hornady 100 gr. SJ with CCI 500's in .32-20 CONTENDER.

YMMV.

[Rocky Raab]

Being next to another powder on a chart means nothing. There might be none or a large gap in burn rates between the two.

It is also very unwise to assume a spherical powder shares characteristics with an extruded powder. One of those characteristics that differs most is the suitability for reduced loads with variable powder placement and/or airspace within the cartridge. Extruded and flake powders are quite tolerant of those conditions; sphericals are known to not be tolerant of them. Among sphericals, W296/H110 is perhaps the least tolerant of low load density and airspace.

[HABCAN]

I agree with all that you say, RR. (Been loading since '48, before there WAS ball powder available.) I merely posted my experience with 296, with cautions.

Nonetheless, for ME in MY rifles with MY boolits the only difference I have observed is that SR4759 takes up more space for the same weight of charge. I on occasion use 296 as a SUBSTITUTE, and it has worked well for ME.

[Phil]

Look at the Winchester loading pamphlet's. They are very specific about the uses of 296, especially loading under recommended charge weights. I've used 296 for a lot of things, but always sticking to the Winchester recommendations. After all, they made the powder.

Quite a number of years ago it was popular, in some circles, to use 296 in the same manner as 4198, 4227, 4759, etc in the larger (308 Win, etc) cases and cast bullets. Pretty soon a lot of undesirable things started happening to rifles, none of it good. I'll stick with Winchesters recommendations.

Lets all err on the side of caution here guys. I'd hate to see anyone hurt or a good rifle destroyed.

Cheers,

Phil

[JeffinNZ]

Great in the Hornet as mentioned and in the .32-20 with top end loads.

And, yes, it IS H110. Both made in the same factory. Now that Hodgdon are THE powder company you should expect to see either 296 or 110 disappear.

[30hrrtt]

The Sierra handgun reloading manual lists 296 for the 30 herrett with bullets ranging from 110 to 150 grains. The 7.62 x 39 is very similar in case capacity.

[Glen]

The powder that became H110, was originally developed for the .30 Carbine military load. Then Hodgdon bought it as surplus, labelled it "H110" and put it on the open market as a .410 and magnum revolver powder. It was quickly learned that H110 could give higher velocities than 2400, and was cheaper to boot, and H110 started selling quite well (this was a few years after the .44 Magnum was introduced). Winchester realized that they were really missing out on all this "magnumitis" and started that product line back up, first calling the powder Winchester 295. There were some issues with guns coming unglued with reduced loads of 295, so Winchester dropped 295, "re-formulated" the powder and introduced 296, with new load data and warnings about not reducing 296 powder charges.

What is H110/Winchester 296 good for? The history pretty much covers it -- .30 Carbine, magnum handgun, and .410....it's also good for small rifle cases like .22 Hornet, etc.

[Shiloh]

Back in my full power magnum days, I loaded .357 magnums with it. I loaded .30 carbine with it also. If you're into heavy recoil, muzzle blast and fireballs, with your .357, this is the powder to do it with.

Shiloh

[Bert2368]

It's also useful when dissolved with acetone in a 20:80 ratio as a binder for pyrotechnic compositions that should not be bound with water and such things as dextrin or starches. Dragon's egg granules and ammonium perchlorate/magnalium based strobe stars in particular.

Anyone got specific loading data for the .22 Hornet and 7.62x39? I've got a spare 8lb. jug of it out in the magazine we are not needing for pyrotechnic manufacturing.

[Phil]

I used it in the Hornet with 40 grain bullets. 10.8 grains gets a bit over 2800 fps corrected. It shoots very well but the SD's are horrible. Then again, at Hornet ranges that doesn't matter. I've tried both WW and RP brass and if you go over 10.8 grains the primer pockets open up very quickly. At 10.8 the cases last forever. This was the same in three guns, two CZ and one Ruger. Also tried both rifle and pistol primers and never could tell a difference in accuracy or much of a difference in velocity or SD.

Cheers.

Phil

[Rick N Bama]

14grs of 296 & the GB C358-180Rf make for a great combo in my Smith M686, 1 inch & under off the bags at 25 yards.

Rick

[Bert2368]

Phil, are you shooting cast or j-word 40 grainers at 2800 fps in the Hornet???

[Phil]

Hi Bert2368,

Oops, my bad. I have been using the Speer 40 gr pointed SP. I've also used the Sierra 40 gr SP, and the Sierra 40 gr HV HP. The HV HP shoots by far the best groups in all guns tried. Seems to down small critters in Hornet ranges ok. You can't load it out to touch the rifling in the CZ and get the rounds in the magazine. Too long, so I just single loaded them. If I remember correctly, by the time you got them to magazine length you were well into the ogive of the bullet. So you would have to shorten the cases to load them through the magazine. I just load the SP bullets to "look right" as they won't come near the origin of rifling and I wanted them to feed through the magazines. I've used the Speer and Sierra SP bullets in both .223" and .224" diameters. Couldn't tell any real differences there either.

I've watched one thread here that says the Lee Bator cast bullet weighs about 50 grains ready to load. I want to order one of these molds and see how it works in the 16" twist guns. The dope on the MidSouth page shows them at 55 grains if I recall correctly but at 50 grains it may just work in the 16" pitch. Might have to make a new sprue plate with smaller holes, but thats no big job.

Cheers,

Phil

[mag44uk]

Thanks for your replies guys.
I just tried 12gns behind 170gn lead in the 32-40 Marlin. Did look like it was hiding in the bottom of the case! Any way it shot ok. I only pumped them into the backstop from 80 yards to satisfy my curiosity. Mild recoil,easy to extract and no signs of pressure from the primers.
I had a look through my older manuals and Speer no 11 list 296 for the 7.62x39.
Starting load is 19gr with any 110gn jacketed bullet.
I have also emailed Winchester about its use in this round.
Does look promising and I could be getting some cheap shooting out of it!
Regards,
Tony

[MaxJon]

I want some for my 310 cadet, I have tried it's Aus equivalent AR2205 with unburnt powder all over the shop! Thinking the same charge of w296 should solve the unburnt problem??

[rockshooter]

works well for 300 blackout, esp with 150gr bullets
Loren

[Lloyd Smale]

originaly 296 and 110 were different powders. Close in burning rates but they were different and different guns preferred one over the other. Today they are the same powder in different cans.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

works well for 300 blackout, esp with 150gr bullets
Loren

+1 on this as well. Near max loads with the bullet seated close to the lands gives great accuracy at 100yds with cheap 150gr Hornady FMJ. The barrel stays quite cool even after 25-50 rounds in fairly succession too.

Pretty much my go-to for supersonic loads in 300BLK.

shoe

[lawboy]

W296/H110 is a great powder for supersonic 300 Blackout loads. I have used it with 110, 120, 125, 130 grain bullets. You have been offered excellent information about NOT using it for reduced loads in large cases. Side stepping this advice by using fillers strikes me as unnecessary and potentially disastrous. Proper powders for other cartridges is cheap enough.