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cmkiefer
03-23-2009, 07:44 PM
OK. New to casting here and I'm just getting throught the studying and lurking phase.

I have a question concerning flux.

I understand there are many organic materials that can be used. I've read about sawdust, wax, beeswax, tallow, etc. do any of these work better than others?

Has anyone fluxed with something they found they shouldn't have?

I'm primarily concerned with being cheap and using homegrown materials. When I saw the use of tallow (lard from beef?) I wondered about bacon grease. I always seem to have some of that around.

Your help has been and is appreciated.

Thanks

Timberland
03-23-2009, 07:58 PM
Yesterday I used diping tobbaco that lost its flavor. The Cope is good chew, but not a good flux. Motor oil seems to work for me, as I dont have to chase after the bits of burnt wood

riarcher
03-23-2009, 08:14 PM
I prefer the cost effective bee's wax. (it's free from the honey farm)

mooman76
03-23-2009, 10:43 PM
Candle wax works and it's cheap and most people have some old pieces laying around.

Woodsroad
03-23-2009, 10:52 PM
I fluxed with some leftover chicken salad last week, and it did ok except for the chunks, which took a long time to burn off. I've used Orange Jello (don't try it, it explodes) and bacon fat (works well, but draws neighbors looking for a free meal) and I really like expired mayonnaise the best of all.

YMMV

EDK
03-24-2009, 02:34 AM
I have been using saw dust from the dust collector for one of the shop saws at work. Put enough to lightly cover the melt and let it smolder into ashes; then skim off. Follow with a lump of bees wax about the size of a pea and start casting. When the dross gets too heavy, another lump of bees wax. The bees wax fumes igniting is a good sign your temperature is at the right area for casting. Not very scientific, but it works.

I had previously used flux from GAR...good stuff, but no new supplier I am aware of....and motor oil or chain saw bar-n-chain oil or small chunks of boolit lube. When your metal temperature is right, you can use any number of things to flux.

:cbpour::redneck:

dromia
03-24-2009, 03:20 AM
Just stir the pot of up to temp alloy with a dry stick, I use dowel off cuts.

Fluxes as good as anything, cheap as you can get, no greasy fumes and if you have some choice woods you can get a nice aroma as well.

cmkiefer
03-24-2009, 06:00 AM
Thanks for the info guys.

Woodsroad, I think I'll avoid the chicken salad. :-)

JIMinPHX
03-24-2009, 06:01 AM
Drippings off the wife's candles work well.

Bret4207
03-24-2009, 07:15 AM
A dry stick works best for me. Scrape the bottom and sides and get some air into the mix too.

armyrat1970
03-24-2009, 07:32 AM
I have been using saw dust from the dust collector for one of the shop saws at work. Put enough to lightly cover the melt and let it smolder into ashes; then skim off. Follow with a lump of bees wax about the size of a pea and start casting. When the dross gets too heavy, another lump of bees wax. The bees wax fumes igniting is a good sign your temperature is at the right area for casting. Not very scientific, but it works.

I had previously used flux from GAR...good stuff, but no new supplier I am aware of....and motor oil or chain saw bar-n-chain oil or small chunks of boolit lube. When your metal temperature is right, you can use any number of things to flux.

:cbpour::redneck:

Don't remove the sawdust ash. Let it set on top of the melt to stop oxidation.

armyrat1970
03-24-2009, 07:35 AM
OK. New to casting here and I'm just getting throught the studying and lurking phase.

I have a question concerning flux.

I understand there are many organic materials that can be used. I've read about sawdust, wax, beeswax, tallow, etc. do any of these work better than others?

Has anyone fluxed with something they found they shouldn't have?

I'm primarily concerned with being cheap and using homegrown materials. When I saw the use of tallow (lard from beef?) I wondered about bacon grease. I always seem to have some of that around.

Your help has been and is appreciated.

Thanks

Fluxing when smelting or fluxing when casting from your furnace? Just my own feelings but I think it makes a difference.

snaggdit
03-24-2009, 11:22 AM
I short while back, I was melting down some letter blocks of foundry type and had big issues with the high tin and antimony wanting to oatmeal up at the top. I posted and some of the guys told me to use a wood stick and add crushed charcoal to the melt. I did so and it worked like a charm. All that good tin (15%) and antimony (23%) went right back in. I have since sifted through the small indoor woodstove we use to heat our family room in the Winter and have lots for the coming warm months. I now use it for casting, too. I toss a tablespoon on top of my bottom pour pot and stir well, then leave it on top. It works just as well as kitty litter to insulate and deter oxidation.

montana_charlie
03-24-2009, 12:46 PM
Yeah, but...you gotta stop rubbing your face after handling that charcoal.

Firebird
03-24-2009, 02:42 PM
A dry stick works best for me. Scrape the bottom and sides and get some air into the mix too.

Scrape the bottom and sides, but letting air into the mix just makes more oxides, and they are in the mix too instead of on top where you can skim them off or reduce them back to metal with a carbon containing flux.

Boondocker
03-24-2009, 03:18 PM
I use the grandkids old broken crayons paper and all. Just snap off a piece and toss it in, light the smoke. I collect crayons at the diner when the kids are done lol.:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

mold maker
03-24-2009, 03:39 PM
They used to be a good source for colored wax for bullet lube. Has anyone tried the new crayons for lube?

cmkiefer
03-24-2009, 05:22 PM
Fluxing when smelting or fluxing when casting from your furnace? Just my own feelings but I think it makes a difference.

Either

Both

snaggdit
03-24-2009, 09:52 PM
I bought some giant crayons at the Dollar Store a few weeks ago and used a few for coloring lube. Worked fine.

snaggdit
03-24-2009, 09:52 PM
Yeah, but...you gotta stop rubbing your face after handling that charcoal.

My wife tells me that too!

303Guy
03-25-2009, 02:32 AM
I do not flux. I cover the lead with sand and leave anything else that forms right there. I also have a piece of foil to cover the top. The idea is to prevent vapours from poisening me and to insulate the pot a bit. I do have to poke a hole from time to time to let the remelted stuff get down. Seems to work.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-564F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-503F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

Recluse
03-25-2009, 02:37 AM
For smelting, I use leftover bits of boolit lube along with sawdust, then stir mightily with a pine stick. I flux very often when smelting--figure it's easier to do it in the big dutch oven and outdoors than in a small casting furnace inside the shop.

When casting, I'll put a very small bb-sized drop of boolit lube in the furnace, light off the smoke, and when the flames are gone, pour in ground-up charcoal, stir, and then leave covering the alloy. This has worked very well for me in reducing oxidation and keeping the necessary alloys in my melt, giving me very well formed boolits with good fillout.

:coffee:

armyrat1970
03-25-2009, 08:54 AM
I do not flux. I cover the lead with sand and leave anything else that forms right there. I also have a piece of foil to cover the top. The idea is to prevent vapours from poisening me and to insulate the pot a bit. I do have to poke a hole from time to time to let the remelted stuff get down. Seems to work.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-564F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-503F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

I have to say from your pics it doesn't look very good to me if this is the way you flux and cast. What is all of that crap in your furnace? I would hope you let it set on top when casting and skim it off before you finish casting before it gets into the alloy. Looks like a lot of rust and I have no clue as to what else. It does appear to be a well used Lee Production IV Pot that needs a little cleaning. I think you can really do it a better way.

Mk42gunner
03-25-2009, 05:52 PM
When rendering wheel weights to make ingots, I flux with a stick. When I am casting bullets, I flux with a small amount of bullet lube to get rid of the oxidation on the ingots.

Works for me....

Robert

armyrat1970
03-26-2009, 07:40 AM
My wife tells me that too!

You know some of you guys are a little weird. My wife tells me that about me all the time. Maybe I've come to the right place.;)

leftiye
03-26-2009, 02:36 PM
303 guy, you've got it just right! Flux with stearic acid (stir with a stick), cover your melt with crushed charcoal, put the lid on and don't look back. Remelt your sprues, rejects, new ingots to be added, and etc., as you go in a second pot, flux, and pour into your casting pot - and just keep casting!

Really, why not cover your melt with sand? Why not?! (Charcoal is also a fluxing agent - so continuous fluxing) Or ashes.

nswuii
03-26-2009, 06:54 PM
Me just a newbie to casting and this site looks like a good one.
Ok, I get it; sort of? Almost anything except the wifes makeup.
My question is- once you add the flux- stir it in- then what happens to it ? does it eventually surface? does it stay mixed in (that would be bad) then just leave it there to prevent oxidation? What do you do when the mix gets low? skim it and toss it?
- please explain this to me like I've never done this before, because I haven't..
I seem to be comfortable with all but the flux...

hydraulic
03-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Stir the mix with a stick, throw in a handful of kitty litter (keeps you from getting a dirty face), and leave it alone. Stir with the stick, once in a while, if you feel like it. No need to skim anything because there won't be any oxides. Add more lead right through the kitty litter. When you are done and the pot has cooled, dump the dirt and old kitty litter out and you are ready for the next session.

shotman
03-26-2009, 10:11 PM
well If you are wanting to keep alloy the same Use a welding flux like Marveral flux. or at welding supply places they have brass flux. No smoke and it forms a crust that works good . Trans fluid works good to keep inside of pot clean . Dont put much in at a time and need fan but once burnt in is good for a good while

snaggdit
03-26-2009, 11:21 PM
Me just a newbie to casting and this site looks like a good one.
Ok, I get it; sort of? Almost anything except the wifes makeup.
My question is- once you add the flux- stir it in- then what happens to it ? does it eventually surface? does it stay mixed in (that would be bad) then just leave it there to prevent oxidation? What do you do when the mix gets low? skim it and toss it?
- please explain this to me like I've never done this before, because I haven't..
I seem to be comfortable with all but the flux...

The flux basically just touches the melted lead, doesn't really mix into it. Since it is lighter than lead, it floats on top. I use charcoal and leave it on top. Does the same thing as kitty litter or sand. Insulates and keeps air from forming oxides on the surface. When melting scrap, after fluxing, strain it off then cast your ingots. When using it in a bottom pour casting pot, leave it until you are almost to the bottom, then remove it as well. many leave a little lead in the bottom of the pot and let it cool that way. In that case removal is optional. When it is all ashes (charcoal) or turned to powder (kitty litter) remove and add new.

Not really difficult, just so many folks do it so many ways. Find a way that works for you.

cmkiefer
03-27-2009, 06:11 AM
OK, in my zeal to start casting I bought the Lyman master casting kit, which has the mini mag furnace (no bottom pour).

I realize that a vast majority of you bottom pour.

What about dipping?

You obviously can't leave a layer of XXXX on top while dipping. Who's doing what in this case? I don't care to invest another $50 in a Lee Production pot just yet.

This has been a great thread, lot's of help here.

Thanks

Mtman314
03-27-2009, 06:21 AM
Last week, I was shown to use the bottom of the ladle to make a hole and to let edge drop in to fill ladle then remove and pour into mould. Being careful to only get lead into dipper.

Wayne Smith
03-27-2009, 12:15 PM
I have been ladle casting exclusively since I started over 10 years ago. I just make a hole in the oxide and dip until the oxide interferes in the boolit making. Then I flux it all back in. Maybe about every half hour? I haven't timed it.

codgerville@zianet.com
03-27-2009, 12:42 PM
I have an old Saeco Model 24 pot that I got new in the late '70 s. I use a ladle all the time, never had any luck with bottom pour. I do the same as Wayne and Mtman, dipping the back of the ladle and letting it fill.

303Guy
03-27-2009, 08:07 PM
I have to say from your pics it doesn't look very good to me if this is the way you flux and cast. What is all of that crap in your furnace? I would hope you let it set on top when casting and skim it off before you finish casting before it gets into the alloy. Looks like a lot of rust and I have no clue as to what else. It does appear to be a well used Lee Production IV Pot that needs a little cleaning. I think you can really do it a better way. :roll:armyrat1970, that is how I do it. No fluxing, just the occational stir and that's it! That's sand you see on top of the melt with a little range dirt and oxides of lead and whatever. If I got poor end results I would certainly revise whatever I was doing, but for now things seem to work out just fine.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpgI love this picture! - It makes me want to go out and shoot this rifle some more! Notice how there is no sign of bullet yaw. As a matter fact, I was shaking as much as the spread of the 'group'. Hell, I wonder how it would shoot if I was steady - maybe I actually compensated and made a mediocre group better! Hee hee!
:drinks:

P.S. That pot is old. I've had it for some 30 years! It stood for so long it developed an earth leakage. I disconnected the earth and heated it for a few hours before reconnecting the earth - that dried out the element, now all's good!

armyrat1970
03-28-2009, 05:45 AM
:roll:armyrat1970, that is how I do it. No fluxing, just the occational stir and that's it! That's sand you see on top of the melt with a little range dirt and oxides of lead and whatever. If I got poor end results I would certainly revise whatever I was doing, but for now things seem to work out just fine.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpgI love this picture! - It makes me want to go out and shoot this rifle some more! Notice how there is no sign of bullet yaw. As a matter fact, I was shaking as much as the spread of the 'group'. Hell, I wonder how it would shoot if I was steady - maybe I actually compensated and made a mediocre group better! Hee hee!
:drinks:

P.S. That pot is old. I've had it for some 30 years! It stood for so long it developed an earth leakage. I disconnected the earth and heated it for a few hours before reconnecting the earth - that dried out the element, now all's good!

You must be doing something right. That's a tight group with nice round holes:). Hope my Lee Pot last as long.

Bret4207
03-28-2009, 08:46 AM
Scrape the bottom and sides, but letting air into the mix just makes more oxides, and they are in the mix too instead of on top where you can skim them off or reduce them back to metal with a carbon containing flux.

Yes, but from what I've read and seen of the technical aspect some O2 is required to get good fluxing. All I know is it works. And since I've gone to a stainless pot my dross and "dust" has dropped to almost nothing.

BPCR Bill
03-28-2009, 09:00 AM
OK. New to casting here and I'm just getting throught the studying and lurking phase.

I have a question concerning flux.

I understand there are many organic materials that can be used. I've read about sawdust, wax, beeswax, tallow, etc. do any of these work better than others?

Has anyone fluxed with something they found they shouldn't have?

I'm primarily concerned with being cheap and using homegrown materials. When I saw the use of tallow (lard from beef?) I wondered about bacon grease. I always seem to have some of that around.

Your help has been and is appreciated.

Thanks

Many of the old time recipes for boolit lube called for beef tallow as an ingredient in the lube, but never bacon grease. Too much salt, and we know what that can do to metals. I use Marvelux from Brownells, sometimes I use Frankford Arsenals flux from Mudway, or just a boolit lube that contains beeswax. SPG, Alox, whatever you have on hand will work. Do not use bacon grease. Not for flux, and certainly not in a homemade boolit lube recipe. The charcoal method and stick stir works as well. There are many ways to get a good flux, and some are just ingenious. I tossed a big spider in a melt once but it popped.

Regards,
Bill

Char-Gar
03-28-2009, 10:57 AM
I have used many things, bullet lube, beeswax, crisco, olive oil, motor oil, candles, parafin nd a wood stick. Lately I have been using Pat's Californa Flake which are pine shavings high in pitch. This works as good as any and better than some and smells good. A box of that stuff is a lifetime supply.

After, the alloy is melted, I flux once and cover the top with clay kitty litter and that eleminates the need to flux again. I just add additonal ingots of metal to the top of the litter.

wildwes
03-31-2009, 10:00 PM
I usually cast around the garage, barn, and smokehouse/reloading building, so there are plenty of oilcans around, I just squirt a little bit of motor oil in out of the can I use to lube the sicklemowers, then I skim the residue off, works like a charm.

Willbird
03-31-2009, 10:19 PM
I have been using gulf canning wax, it works nicely, I tried some 2 cycle oil and it did not work as well.

Bill

Fire_stick
03-31-2009, 11:59 PM
I ve been using gulf wax and an occasional bug that is unlucky enough to fly too close to the pot.

docone31
04-01-2009, 12:03 AM
Well,
Bugs have chitin. That is mostly sugar. Albeit, it is not as tasty as candies could be, but, when it carbonizes, it absorbs O2. Bugs are good flux, or anti-oxidant. Combine that with parafin, Gulf Wax, and you have a good O2 absorbing screen.
Good for anti firescale application.