Good scope for 454 raging bull?

[oleycow]

I am looking for some advice, on finding a decent scope for the raging bull 454 6/12"

I know burris and leupold make some nice ones but $350 is out of my price range

Is there a decent scope to handle this kind of recoil at around the $200 price range?

That is about my max.

or would I be better to wait another year or two and save for the higher price?

[felix]

Wait. ... felix

[dubber123]

I know many hate to hear it, but check out Fee-bay for a while. It took some waiting, but I got a NIB Leupold, for $150.

[dk17hmr]

Im with Felix in waiting.
I would start saving up for a Burris or Leupold. Seems like anything else would just get eaten up with full power. I have a Burris 1.5-4x on my Ruger 454 which works very well, I highly doubt any of the cheaper pistol scopes would hold up to the loads I run through my SRH.

[Dale53]

J.D. Jones of SSK Industries has hunted all over the world with handguns. He recommended the Simmons hand gun scopes for the heavy kickers. I have only used the Simmons rifle scopes (have several and am very happy with them) and their Red Dot sights. I talked to their techs at the NRA Convention about the Red Dots and they stated the Red Dots should be limited to no more than .44 magnum. Absolutely NO .454 use as they won't take it.

I use an Ultra Dot on my .454 Raging Bulls. I really haven't shot them enough to state definitively that they are OK with the .454. However, several on here use heavier handgun cartridges than .454 's and they praise them highly. I have no doubt that THEY will hold up. They can be had for less than $150.00. I know you asked about a scope, but...

Give J.D.Jones a call - he'll be happy to talk with you about the scope problem. He is good people.

Dale53

[454PB]

I'm not much of a scoped handgun fan, but I put a Weaver 2X on my Ruger SRH for ammo testing purposes. It has held up well through several hundred rounds of wrist breaking handloads. I think I paid $140 on sale.

[oleycow]

If i wait and save for the Burris, is it necessary to upgrade to the one with the posi-lock?

and then a question on the Simmons recomendation, is there a model that is preferred? The ProHunter 2-6x32 appears to be very resonably priced!

Has anyone out there had issues or problems with this?

[Geraldo]

When I first bought a handgun scope (say 20 years ago), I chose a Nikon over a similarly priced Leupold. It held up for years on a .44 TC before it literally came apart. Had I bought the Leupold I could have sent in back under warranty, as it was I bought a Leupold to replace the Nikon. Needless to say all of my hard recoiling rifles or pistols have had Leupolds mounted on them.

[Frank]

I'm thinking of a back-up for my BFR. Would like to get advice from the pro's 44man, Lloyd Smale, Redhawk, etc :Fire:

The way I see it you can use the 8X as a spotting scope.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=299283

[Down South]

I’ve been watching this thread and I thought someone might mention the Ultradot so I will. I put one on my 44 mag and it does well. But if you want magnification, then that’s a different story. Here is a link. There are many good scopes out there both ways.

Best of luck.
http://www.ultradotwest.com/

[Frank]

I’ve been watching this thread and I thought someone might mention the Ultradot so I will.

I'll tell you what, if Ultradot makes a 2 moa dot or better and it holds on my gun for 5 years or so without a problem, then I'll be satsified. Mine failed after 80 rounds. I've got Leupolds that I've had for years, but never on a handgun. I've heard one man say you can't shoot offhand with a scope, but the same man says he has trouble shooting groups with the dot. So how do you shoot a group with an 4 moa dot? How do you shoot a soda can at 200 yards with an 8" dot. Who would recommend a 4 moa dot over a duplex reticle for groups? Be realistic. How do you hold over with a dot and take a 500 yard shot. Who's kidding who.

[oleycow]

Geraldo,

you just made a lot of sense, I think I will wait and save for the Leupold or quality Burris, or perhaps find a steal of a price somewhere just keeping my eyes open.

Thanks

[jeff423]

I'll tell you what, if Ultradot makes a 2 moa dot or better and it holds on my gun for 5 years or so without a problem, then I'll be satsified. Mine failed after 80 rounds. I've got Leupolds that I've had for years, but never on a handgun. I've heard one man say you can't shoot offhand with a scope, but the same man says he has trouble shooting groups with the dot. So how do you shoot a group with an 4 moa dot? How do you shoot a soda can at 200 yards with an 8" dot. Who would recommend a 4 moa dot over a duplex reticle for groups? Be realistic. How do you hold over with a dot and take a 500 yard shot. Who's kidding who.

I agree - I just bought a couple of scopes to try because even the smallest dots on my Matchdot and Ultradots are just too big.

FWIW I found a Burris and Leupold for about $100 each - used.

Jeff

[Down South]

I'll tell you what, if Ultradot makes a 2 moa dot or better and it holds on my gun for 5 years or so without a problem, then I'll be satsified. Mine failed after 80 rounds. I've got Leupolds that I've had for years, but never on a handgun. I've heard one man say you can't shoot offhand with a scope, but the same man says he has trouble shooting groups with the dot. So how do you shoot a group with an 4 moa dot? How do you shoot a soda can at 200 yards with an 8" dot. Who would recommend a 4 moa dot over a duplex reticle for groups? Be realistic. How do you hold over with a dot and take a 500 yard shot. Who's kidding who.
Yes, Ultra Dot does make a 2 MOA scope. I’ve heard of many of the Red Dots failing on larger caliber revolvers but I haven’t heard of any failures with the Ultra Dots till your reply. I’m wondering what you had it mounted on and if it was an Ultra Dot and not a Red Dot. Ultra Dot has a lifetime warranty too so you could have sent it back in for either repair or replacement. I’ve had Leupolds to break before. I’ve had to send three back to the factory for repair. One thing you can’t beat is Leupolds warranty. All it cost me each time was postage back to the factory. You’ll also find several members here that are using the Ultra Dot on large caliber handguns with great success. The one that I have is mounted on an S&W 629 with a 5” barrel. I shoot full house loads and the scope does well.
The reason I use an Ultra Dot is because of my eye sight. It’s hard for me to focus with handgun sights now days. Plus I went with the Ultra Dot for hunting purposes. I can still be able to make shots earlier in the morning or later in the evening compared to a regular scope.
Now if you want a scope mainly for target shooting then by all means I’d buy a regular scope.
The topic starter didn’t specify if he wanted a scope for hunting or just target shooting and that is the reason that I suggested the Ultra Dot. If it’s a hunting scope he wants then the Ultra Dot would be what I think a good option in scopes. If he wants a target scope then personally, I’d settle for nothing less than a Leupold.
As for the 500 yard shots, that’s a bit out of my territory with a handgun. I have several rifles. All of them are quality firearms with one being custom built. I have only one that I would consider being able to consistently hit a target or kill zone with at 500 yards. All of my rifles have Leupold scopes on them. Some of my Leupolds are very expensive.
My handgun shooting is within 100 yards. I could understand 200 yards with handguns and yes I would recommend a regular scope with magnification for that distance. Past that with a handgun things are heading south fast, maybe even closer depending. Things start heading south fast past 300 yards with a rifle with a muzzle velocity of 3500 fps. At 500 yards a shooter needs to know the exact range within 25 yards or so. If you don’t know that range then all you are doing is just trying to lob one in and hope for the best.
But if our topic starter is shooting cast, even jacketed, his muzzle velocity will be much lower than that of a rifle plus the bullets for handguns have a much worse coefficient compared to lets say a Spitzer or a Boat Tail Ballistic Tip.

[Ron B.]

Interesting thread.

I don't know guys; my personal thoughts are different. Scopes are really meant for rifles. I've used a lot of scoped pistols; still have a couple scoped; one a 357 Mag. The other, a Browning 22. For me, the feeling is just not natural; nor, the sight picture. My 454 FA came to me equipped with a Leupold. Yes, very accurate; off bench. Free styling; another story. I know it was me. I've still got that scope; and mounts. Again, personally I like open sights on my pistols. If you insist, does anyone need a used Leupold? :)

I really like my Holo-Sights however.

GRB

[Frank]

Down South writes
Yes, Ultra Dot does make a 2 MOA scope. I’ve heard of many of the Red Dots failing on larger caliber revolvers but I haven’t heard of any failures with the Ultra Dots till your reply. I’m wondering what you had it mounted on and if it was an Ultra Dot and not a Red Dot. Ultra Dot has a lifetime warranty too so you could have sent it back in for either repair or replacement. I’ve had Leupolds to break before. I’ve had to send three back to the factory for repair. One thing you can’t beat is Leupolds warranty. All it cost me each time was postage back to the factory. You’ll also find several members here that are using the Ultra Dot on large caliber handguns with great success. The one that I have is mounted on an S&W 629 with a 5” barrel. I shoot full house loads and the scope does well.
The reason I use an Ultra Dot is because of my eye sight. It’s hard for me to focus with handgun sights now days. Plus I went with the Ultra Dot for hunting purposes. I can still be able to make shots earlier in the morning or later in the evening compared to a regular scope.
Now if you want a scope mainly for target shooting then by all means I’d buy a regular scope.
The topic starter didn’t specify if he wanted a scope for hunting or just target shooting and that is the reason that I suggested the Ultra Dot. If it’s a hunting scope he wants then the Ultra Dot would be what I think a good option in scopes. If he wants a target scope then personally, I’d settle for nothing less than a Leupold.
As for the 500 yard shots, that’s a bit out of my territory with a handgun. I have several rifles. All of them are quality firearms with one being custom built. I have only one that I would consider being able to consistently hit a target or kill zone with at 500 yards. All of my rifles have Leupold scopes on them. Some of my Leupolds are very expensive.
My handgun shooting is within 100 yards. I could understand 200 yards with handguns and yes I would recommend a regular scope with magnification for that distance. Past that with a handgun things are heading south fast, maybe even closer depending. Things start heading south fast past 300 yards with a rifle with a muzzle velocity of 3500 fps. At 500 yards a shooter needs to know the exact range within 25 yards or so. If you don’t know that range then all you are doing is just trying to lob one in and hope for the best.
But if our topic starter is shooting cast, even jacketed, his muzzle velocity will be much lower than that of a rifle plus the bullets for handguns have a much worse coefficient compared to lets say a Spitzer or a Boat Tail Ballistic Tip.

Now that you mentioned it, I'm looking forward to trying it again. If it fails then, well, you'll hear about it. How's that? That's fair, right? :)

[jh45gun]

My Opinion depends what you want it for scopes are great for fine target work as they are finer then dot sights unless you can afford an expensive dot with a 1 moa dot. For hunting I got to reccomend a dot and I did not like dots for years as I had cheaper ones but my Bushnell on my 22A is fantastic. Why am I down on scopes for hunting guns last year it cost me a whitetail doe during a doe only hunt. 40 yard shot using a scoped barrel on my Encore in 308 with a Swift Scope. Now I had taken at least 5 deer with this combination before but they were in the open more and stood out. With the tag alders this doe was in I could not find her in the pistol scope she finally walked away. I know a Dot it would have been a done deal. I am no Larry Weishon (sp?) any of my pistol shots are at close range even when I had the encore in 308. Now my Encore sports a 45/410 barrel if I ever do shoot a deer with this gun it will be close range and this barrel has fiber optic slugger sights installed for a better sight picture than the notch/bead combination the factory barrel has. For pistol use I think a dot is faster and for pistol ranges more than enough accurate for hunting. I have used both that is my opinion.

[69daytona]

Try Pride and Fowler Rapid Retical scopes. I use one on my S&W500 shooting 600gr bullets going 1650fps and havent had a problem with it, they have ranging lines from 100-400yards once sighted in. they make them for all types of revolvers.
My first one broke because the rear sight screw broke and the rear sight dented the scope with enough force to crack the lense, they replaced it for free paid for the shipping and gave me a $50 cupon towards any of thier other scopes. They cost around 300 but if you look on ebay you can get them new for 150 and the warrenty is good even if its a used scope.

[kingstrider]

Oleycow, you may also want to try the gun shows for a used scope. Over the last year I have ran across several Leupold 2X and 4X scopes in the $100-150 range. I have several 2X models and they hold up really well. Best of all they are warranted for life.

[oleycow]

Kingstrider,

That's a great idea, in fact i learned of one coming to town here in just a couple of weeks, i'll check it out.

Thanks

Oleycow

[Frank]

OK, my opinion has shifted. I put on the Ultradot 30 w/ the 4 moa dot and I think that's the way to go for what you are looking for. That size dot is perfect because as the shot breaks you can see your error. And 4moa is 2 moa at 50 yards. Unless you are shooting at aspirin tablets, you don't need a scope. That dot is accurate enough for as far as you can hold over with a Raging Bull.

[oleycow]

I really didn't think that i wanted a red dot, however, I will say you have peaked my interest, I hadn't really seen one I liked but I think I could grow to appreciate the Ultra Dot 30. Not to mention appreciate the price.

Has anyone had any warranty issues with the ultra dot scopes, I read lifetime, do they handle their warranties as well as Leupold?

[44man]

I use a leupold 2X for load work. It is so old it has whiskers but has held up to everything. I have a Tasco 2X that nothing will ever hurt.
I ate Burris scope tubes on my .44, dead soft aluminum.
I can NOT hunt with a scope, they are like black holes in the mornings and evenings.
My Ultra Dot's have held up to thousands and thousands of heavy .475 and 45-70 loads. Magnum Research uses them.
Marko had a ladder stand collapse on him when pig hunting, his gun fell to the stand and then 12' to the ground. There was no damage and it is still dead on. The Ultra Dot was not harmed.
There might be better red dots but I can buy 3 Ultra Dots for the price of one.
Bushnell, Tasco and Millet red dots have bitten the dust for me.
Swift scopes MIGHT last until you get sighted, mine didn't.
Did I tell you my guns RECOIL! :mrgreen:

[44man]

I really didn't think that i wanted a red dot, however, I will say you have peaked my interest, I hadn't really seen one I liked but I think I could grow to appreciate the Ultra Dot 30. Not to mention appreciate the price.

Has anyone had any warranty issues with the ultra dot scopes, I read lifetime, do they handle their warranties as well as Leupold?
Yes, I had the switch screws come loose in one. I contacted the place I needed to send it to and he told me I needed proof of purchase. I could not find it so I called Ultra Dot West. He said don't worry, he would fax it for me. The whole switch was replaced quick and I had it back very fast. Super service.

[Lloyd Smale]

thats the answer. Probably the most rugged handgun scope made and you should be able to pick up even a new one for not much more then 200 bucks.
Oleycow, you may also want to try the gun shows for a used scope. Over the last year I have ran across several Leupold 2X and 4X scopes in the $100-150 range. I have several 2X models and they hold up really well. Best of all they are warranted for life.

[Frank]

I can NOT hunt with a scope, they are like black holes in the mornings and evenings.


But I thought the scope improved on the light gathering.

[Frank]

and he told me I needed proof of purchase

So now maybe Leupold needs to have a cheap red dot, like they did with the Warne rings Warne no longer carries, Leupold bought out Warne and they have QRW rings. :wink:

[Groo]

Groo here
Also look at your mount...
JD puts 3 or 4 rings on a scope to stop the tube bending as this brakes
scopes most often...

[Dale53]

I've spent a lot of time with scopes and Red Dots. Until my vision went south I used scopes. Then when my eyesight deteriorated, I went with Red Dots.

You DO need to practice with either. I would mount my revolver repeatedly in my family room. Time after time after time. When my first deer came into view there was no fumbling around. I have shot running targets with handguns with scopes and did well with them. It just takes practice.

Regarding accuracy, I can shoot under an 1" at 25 yards off a bench (2" at fifty yards and under 4" at 100 yards). You just need to use the correct target. I have often used a man sized silhouette (the IPSC silhouette is perfect). Turn it sideways, put it at 100 yards and you have a good deer target. It is tan in color, no aiming point (I never had an aiming point on any deer, so that works perfectly:mrgreen:). Before every deer season, I would shoot as many as 2500 rounds in the weeks leading up to deer season with my scoped handgun. Did I mention you need to PRACTICE?

The Red Dots are the same only more visible in a darkened woods. The only disadvantage of the Red Dot is that it is battery powered. However, batteries are less than a dollar from "BatteryBob. com" and just put a new one in every other day and you'll be ready.

I learned to shoot a scope and/or a Red Dot offhand and you can too. Just put up a 9" pie plate and the maximum distance you can put five shots straight into the pie plate will be a measure of maximum shooting distance when hunting deer.

Practice!

Dale53

[oleycow]

Well I did it

I went ahead and purchased a 30 mm matte silver ultra dot from ultra dot west. Shipping was fast cost is reasonable however the #8 setting for the light did not work. When on #8 the light would go out.

Had to send it back to Larry's and he fixed it and returned it within 2 weeks. So i finally was able to take it out to shoot.

It adjusted quickly and by 10 rounds I was laying them ontop of each other at 25 yards with a bency rest. Quickly ran out of ammo.

Loaded up more last night in hopes of hitting the range this time at 50 and see how my new set up performs.

Thanks for the advice. I am very satisfied with the Red Dot. I think I made the right choice.

Oleycow

[Dale53]

oleycow;
The one thing we did NOT mention about Red Dots is that they are addictive. After you shoot one for a while, it becomes tiresome to go back to iron sights.

I LOVE my Red Dots and have returned to my performance level of many years ago (but I have vision problems and the Red Dot pretty much eliminates that "excuse":mrgreen:).

Now, I am tempted to put a Red Dot on my new Ruger .44 Lipsey Special ("tell me it ain't so":roll:)...

Dale53