new to swaging need a little help

[paintfire]

Hello,
New to the swaging game, been reloading for 30 years so I guess I know my way around the presses etc. Now here is my questions, I recently purchased a set of dies to make 22lr into .224 bullets, so I guess the best way is to list my questions,
1) Do I anneal before or after removing the rim on the case
2) what lube should I use, I know this is subjective since everyone likes this or that, but looking for something readily available
3) when I told my wife I wanted to use the stove, well I got the look you know want to use what, when I told her to anneal 22lr cases, she said " No way, go buy another stove" well thats not likely, and to sit and use a torch seams like it will take forever. Then I thought about using the BBQ at 500 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes on a cookie tray, is this a possible alteritive?

Did swage several annealed and not annealed both worked neither seamed harder than the other, so I'm thinking I need to anneal after removing the rim.
Thanks, and I look foward to hearing from other swagers.

[kawalekm]

Hello,
New to the swaging game, been reloading for 30 years so I guess I know my way around the presses etc. Now here is my questions, I recently purchased a set of dies to make 22lr into .224 bullets, so I guess the best way is to list my questions,
1) Do I anneal before or after removing the rim on the case
2) what lube should I use, I know this is subjective since everyone likes this or that, but looking for something readily available
3) when I told my wife I wanted to use the stove, well I got the look you know want to use what, when I told her to anneal 22lr cases, she said " No way, go buy another stove" well thats not likely, and to sit and use a torch seams like it will take forever. Then I thought about using the BBQ at 500 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes on a cookie tray, is this a possible alteritive?

Did swage several annealed and not annealed both worked neither seamed harder than the other, so I'm thinking I need to anneal after removing the rim.
Thanks, and I look foward to hearing from other swagers.
Hi PF
I've always made my .22s by annealing first. The advantage there is that you can clean the brass afterwards and have it ready for each additional step uninterupted. After annealing I wash the discolored cases in soapy water containing NaCl and vinegar. Brass comes out very clean. If I need really shiny brass I'll dry the washed cases and tumble them in grit-free walnut media, followed by another water only washing.

I don't think 500F is hot enough. I've annealed my cases red hot on the gas stove. I made a little case holder out of a length of wire that can anneal 5 cases at a time. That makes it go a little faster. What is easier, if you can start a fire, is put the cases in a steel can and put that in the fire, either camp or woodstove. I've annealed by raking the hot coals over the can and just leaving it there till it burns out. I suppose you could do the same thing with a barbeque and charcoal brickettes. Perhaps you could get a gas grill to work if you put your cases in a steel can that was right on the burner. If you can't get the can red hot, your cases are not getting hot enough! Dean Grennell, in his book "ABC's of reloading" heated his .22RF cases wrapped in Al foil in his lead casting pot for an hour, set to about 700F.

I use anhydrus lanolin for all my swaging. You can purchase it at drug stores and medical supply stores. I do all my "special" projects when the wife is not home. This produces far fewer raised eyebrows than if she was around. She's never seen me tumbling brass in her clothes dryer!
Michael

[shooterg]

I'd sure like to have a small heat treat oven to anneal in ! I've done before and after derimming. If I do before with my derimmer, the cases often stay stuck on the punch, causing much cursing, so I generally anneal afterwards. I'd prefer to do it first as Kawalekm does but my tool won't work with me - and it takes a brave man to tumble in the dryer - how's that work / Seal 'em in something plastic with media ?

[paintfire]

OK, I just tried the torch method case on a wire rack holds three cases, after you get the case red hot how long do I need to do it, seams like 5 seconds should do?? What is NaCL, vinger I know, and how do you mix it?

[Bent Ramrod]

I anneal before ironing out the rims. Corbin should have included with your kit a piece of tubing that goes over your press ram and a domed washer that goes over the ironing punch. The shells that pull back through the draw die will strip off the punch on the downstroke with this attachment.

When I tried to iron the rims first, it was an enormous effort on the press lever and a lot of rims tore. I wad the empty shells up in a ball of aluminum foil and put it on top of 6 or 7 glowing charcoal briquets in my pseudo-Weber grill. I cover the grill and leave the draft open all the way. The next day, the shells are back to room temperature and soft as they're going to get.

I've always used Corbin's Draw-Die lube for swaging.

[shooterg]

The older Corbin derimmers had the "wiper washer". I think he now makes one that pushes through - kinda like a Lee sizer, they spill out the top into whatever container you fabricate to catch 'em. My current tool is a Blackmon that is a "push through" and my container is a yogurt cup with hole poked in bottom to fit die ! Holds about 300, which is all I want to do at once anyway.

I think this summer I'm gonna try "grilling" some cases - I've been using the "profane" torch and it is tedious.

[MIBULLETS]

I have one of the newer Corbin dies which is the push through design. I think if you anneal first the brass loses it ability to spring back a little and doesn't get pulled off the punch, so I always anneal after. This is what Corbin recommends as well. I have seen him say it the other way around in his older works but he say anneal after now.

[454PB]

My experience matches Bent Ramrod's. If not annealed first, I have stuck cases and rims torn off.

I put about 500 fired .22 cases in my Lyman casting pot and cover with a piece of tin, place it on a 600 watt hotplate, and heat em up for about 45 minutes. Turn the hotplate off and leave everything there to cool for use the next day.

[7of7]

from Corbins site..... www.corbins.com/rfjm.htm (http://www.corbins.com/rfjm.htm)
"The procedure is simple:

* Clean some .22 LR fired cases by boiling in water to which some detergent has been added, then rinse in hot water and allow them to dry. The hot water rinse can help shine tarnished cases if you add an ounce of vinegar to a quart of water. A tablespoon of salt also helps clean the cases, but then a clear water rinse is necessary to remove the salt.

* Stress relieve the cases by putting them through a self-cleaning cycle in an electric oven, or do the same in smaller lots by heating them to a faint red glow in a dark room using a propane torch (just a few seconds of flame is sufficient). This prevents folding of the ogive when you form the bullet, a result of the case being brittle. Too much heat results in softening the shank to the point where the bullet will acquire dents around the shank area. Between these two extremes is a wide range where the jacket you make will produce excellent bullets.

* Put the punch in the press ram and screw the die a few turns into the press head. You need at least three full threads engagement of the die in the press head. Normally the die will be set fairly high in the press to use the maximum leverage for easiest operation.

* Lightly lubricate the case and the punch with Corbin Swage Lube (a thin film wiped on with your fingertips is sufficient).

* Place a 22 LR case over the punch, and raise the ram. Adjust the die position so that the case is pushed into the die, the head is drawn out, and the jacket is stripped off the punch and remains in the die, high enough so that it is free of the die constriction (loose in the guide section of the die, above the drawing area). The setting is fairly critical...just part of a turn up or down can make the operation require too much force, or not quite get the jacket through the die constriction.

* Push all the 22 LR cases through the die one after another, picking them up as the start to emerge from the top of the die. You have just started making a lifetime supply of free .224 jackets! Turn them into bullets with any of Corbins bullet swage die sets for .224 caliber. The jackets can also be drawn to .204, .172, or even down to .142 in two or three steps with additional draw dies."

So, you do anneal,.. or stress releive the jackets prior to the process.....
Thanks for the question!!

[n.h.schmidt]

I have the corbin setup.
It was found best to anneal first. If I didn't ,the bottom of the case often punched through. A $15 hot plate and any steel container would do to anneal the case. You can do hundreds at a time. I found the de-rimming to be the most troublesome part of the whole process.
My punch soon wore out near the top and had a groove worn into it . The button die also wore oversize quickly. I made new ones in my shop . The punch wore out because it wasn't hardened. The hardened one I made has lasted for close to eight thousand bullets. Corbin could have done a lot better than they did.
n.h.schmidt

[MIBULLETS]

It may work both ways, but I have seen Dave Corbin specifically say 22 cases are the only time he recommends annealing after drawing the case. Whatever works for you and your equipment.

[MIBULLETS]

7 of 7 I am not saying you are wrong about Corbin's website. I just looked and found the piece you quoted but this is also on his site...

http://www.corbins.com/jackets.htm#rfjm

These are the ultimate plinker bullet because they are so very accurate, easy on the bore, and cheap! (as in FREE). The process is quite simple: gather up fired .22 cases, toss out the flattened ones and the ones that have firing pin dents torn all the way through, wash them in boiling water and detergent, spread them out to dry on a towel. Then use Corbin Swage Lube on your fingers as you pick up the cases, slip them over the punch, and push them into the die. I like to push them in just far enough so the head is ironed out as the end of the stroke is reached, only about 3/16 inch or so into the die. That makes it easy. You use full press leverage to unfold and iron the head back into a straight wall section (as it was originally, when the case was built).

Then I lower the ram, eject the jacket, and process another one. When I have done about 500 of them, I lower the ram slightly and push each one through all the way in a longer, but easier, stroke. Having unfolded the head, the rest of the draw is easy now. Doing it all at once is possible, but takes more effort and a perfect adjustment of the die so you get exactly the maximum leverage at a point where the jacket just disappears into the die. Doing it in two strokes is a lot more flexible and easier on your arm.

After about an hour, I have processed 500 of the little jackets. I put them on a little tray made out of fire bricks stacked side by side, and heat them with a propane torch using a fan-tail spreader nozzle until they just barely get visible red in a dark room. Let them cool, or scoop them into a pail of water if you are in a hurry (has no effect on the temper of the brass). Dry them, and use them as you would any other jacket (but use a .204-inch diameter core seating punch, since they are thinner than the commercial jacket which uses a smaller punch, normally about .198 to .201 inch).