No Powder, No Primers, No Brass!!!

[Bass Ackward]

Message from suppliers is that there are no powder, primers, or brass for AT LEAST 6 months. Get it if you need it / can.

[9.3X62AL]

Did they offer an explanation for these conditions?

[Bass Ackward]

Did they offer an explanation for these conditions?


Yes. Ammunition sales are running at unprecedented levels. Margins are higher on loaded ammo, so companies are diverting the inventory.

Check out Powder Valley's Inventory of primers. NONE. Most powder is now zero balance too.

Buddy placed an order for 300,000 primers and got two flats. That's 200. Told to sell wisely. Oh and the price was $6.20ea his cost.

[StarMetal]

From what I'm hearing on other forums is that the manufacturers are at 100 % capacity plus. It's a situation of buyer fear and greed. Everyone is simply buying more then they can produce.

Joe

[Bass Ackward]

From what I'm hearing on other forums is that the manufacturers are at 100 % capacity plus. It's a situation of buyer fear and greed. Everyone is simply buying more then they can produce.

Joe


Joe???


Well, I have been in my own little world doing a lot of testing. About 23,000 since the first of the year. Just happened in his store to pick up some new brass and was SHOCKED.

So I can imagine there is somebody else out there in my shoes somewhere.

Bottom line is to get what you need or wait. Only place here with powder or primers is Gander Mountain for obvious reasons. But they buy so seldom that they are now cheaper than anyone else, so that is where I got my brass. Thank God, I laid in powder and primers in October. Thought I was robbed at $19.60 / k. Smilin now.

Oh and the 6 month figure was a minimum. Since this has never happened in modern times before, no idea what we are facing.

[CSH]

Yes, I know some gun owners who normally only buy a couple of boxes of factory each year that have purchased at least 2 boxes a week since last November. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the components are being diverted. The thing that seems to be in really short supply is primers. I'm glad I bought a large quantity before the hysteria set in. Also have enough powder and brass for at least the next 10 years.

[waksupi]

Where did you get this information? Directly from manufacturers?

[rickomatic]

Primers and brass I can understand. But aren't most of the "retail" powders we use just that? I always thought that ammo manufacturers had their own powders made up, which is why you can't just duplicate a factory load. You have to experiment with your own powders to try to match it. Of course, if the manufacturers are just making commercial powders for the ammo makers, and not making our "retail" powders, then I can understand.

[targetshootr]

What a bunch of craziness. I thought everybody bought their brass from Starline anyhow.

[jhrosier]

I talked to my dealer today, who talked to his distributor last week.
The distributor was told by Federal that all primer production is being diverted to making Federal ammunition for at least 6 months and probably longer.

I would guess that the other ammo makers are facing similar circumstances.

It seems likely that the domestic powder makers are producing bulk powders for the ammo makers and either have or will soon temporarily halt production of canister grade powders for handloaders.

We could be in for a year or more of no available powders, primers, and brass.:-(

I also would predict that the component shortages will drive many more people to shift their shooting to .22 rimfires and cause further shortages of all grades of rimfire ammo. There seems to be a decent supply of the more expensive grades of target and hunting ammo right now. The bargain ammo seems to be getting scarce though.

Jack

[snaggdit]

I bought the last 2 boxes of primers for small and large pistol at Gander last Wed. I asked what they had, he told me and I said I'd take it. Didn't ask the price. Talk about sticker shock at the checkout! 39.99 a thousand! But I was just happy to get some. No small rifle at Gander, and no primers anywhere else around here. I guess I have enough for now, but still, in these times I would like to have more than the 6K primers and 20lbs powder I have.

[lathesmith]

Wow, I don't think I can ever remember a situation like this in my lifetime. Even in the bad old days of the '90's, components got pricey but were still available. IIRC, that situation took about 12-18 months to play out, and was never this bleak. Looks like to me that it's going to be pretty hard for a lot of folks to get started reloading, much less casting, if there aren't any components available.
lathesmith

[Buckshot]

............Probably a similar situation during WW2. Of course I wasn't there but over my time reloading and casting I've read plenty of accounts about how it was next to impossible to get ANY reloading components. People who had a genuine need had to jump through some hoops to get it. Of course it's easy to realize that any of the ammo makers weren't going to produce a run of 30-30 or 22 Hornet brass, and people understood why.

In this case it's not a national emergancy except in (apparently a BUNCH, too) people's minds. I'll bet the powder makers and the ammunition and components manufacturers are a bit astounded with the situation although they saw a similar situation in the '90's with the threatened ammo and components tax foolishness. At that time I was just okay. Not flush but okay enough to figure I would last through it.

Since then and because of that uncomfortable feeling I vowed I wouldn't suffer through such a thing again. One thing that really helped was the fact that I was in (I think) a rather unique situation. I shot every Tuesday with 4-5 other avid shooters, reloaders and boolit casters. What was helpfull about it was that it was easy to work up a powder order and split the costs. Plus there were 3 of us using surplus powders. The largest order for surplus we ever placed was for 136 lbs.

I went to about every Great Western gunshow at the LA county fairgrounds, and it was a monster. One of the main reasons I went was to buy primers (especially for the reason stated above). Mi-Wall was always there and usually always the cheapest. I always bought at least 2 sleeves, figuring "Use one, store one" till the next gunshow. Sometimes I'd buy more. That and hitting Graf back when they were clearing out PMC/Wolf at $56/sleeve has me in pretty good shape.

Sometimes doing that (and powder) would have had me in bad oder with SWMBO, but luckily enough I skated through. The thing is, if you're buying when there is normal demand you can buy on sale or at least at normal prices. If you buy enough for your anticipated needs and then just a bit more you'll always have some extra.

There is probably also a bit of minor hysteria (maybe too strong a word?) involved. A buddy of mine and I went to lunch Friday. He's a shooter, reloader, and a sometimes caster. He doesn't have the boolit casting burn though:-) So anyway he says a few weeks ago he went to buy some 357 ammo and no one had any. We discussed what was going on, but then I said, "You're a reloader why were you wanting to buy form factory 357?".

His answer was illuminating. He said that he could have but he just thought that he needed to go buy some ammo because he'd heard about the shortages and stuff. So I eventually got down to the fact that he didn't NEED any 357 ammo, but he'd heard about shortages and decided he needed to go buy some. So there IS some of that at work in this situation. Scarcity increases desireability, plus people just hate to be left out.

One regret I have is not buying more 22RF when Dyna-Points were $9.63/brick and Federal 550 bricks were $11.25/brick. I really have enough for the foreseeable future, but they won't ever be that cheap again!

...............Buckshot

[Ole]

Sounds like it's time to get yourself a nice pellet rifle.

[Ole]

Oh shoot. I probably just started the ball rolling on the next big shortage.

AIR! :groner:

[AZ-Stew]

It's going to be a noisy revolution.

Regards,

Stew

[troy_mclure]

i managed to get 2k small rifle primers, but no large rifle primers. i have 1000 federal large magnum pistol primers i am willing to trade for a few hundred large rifle.

[nighthunter]

I emailed Hodgdon Powder asking why there is a shortage of various powders of their manufacture. I recieved a reply that all reloading supplies are in short supply at this time. The cause for the shortage is hoarding. Manufacturers are shipping at full capacity. The hoarding started as soon as the president was elected in November.
Why would hunters, shooters and reloaders not trust Mr Obama?

Nighthunter

[exile]

I just bought some .38 special brass from Starline. The lady who helped me said they were selling a lot of brass, but luckily they had some.

exile

[Bret4207]

I think it depends on your locale. My local shops have plenty of everything as reloaders are few and far between up here.

[Bret4207]

BTW- Nice to see you back Bass!

[unique]

The root of this problem goes a bit further than the election of Obama. I would say he is the straw that broke the camels back for some of us but if you look around you'll see that alot of people are feeling uneasy today. People are sensing something isn't right and the herd instinct is starting to take over. The herd instinct really means everyone for themselves which means if someone starts to react then I better react but more so because I don't want to be left behind.

The problem I see is that this general uneasiness has the potential to spill over into all aspects of society and our fearless leaders know this and is the reason they are trying to calm us down with all the crazy things they are doing. I predict it won't work and we will see a rush in the financial area (you ain't seen nothing yet!), food, jobs, all the things necessary to maintain our basic lifestyle which is going to change.

Like many on this board, I tend to see some of this beforehand, so I try and stay away from the herd. It ain't pretty but those who do not face reality are likely to be crushed by the herd.

[auzzie101]

I went to the gunshow yesterday and saw about 3k wolf large pistol primers for 35 per 1k. I would have bought them if I didn't already have a sizeable stash of LP primers. The prices are out of control, it was about a month ago I got 5k LP primers for $100.

There were a couple of guys looking at the primers as well but they said they needed small rifle primers and would only by CCI. Small rifle seem to be what is fetching the best prices online as well. I suppose ammo to feed those 223's?

[Shiloh]

Oh shoot. I probably just started the ball rolling on the next big shortages.
AIR! :groner:

Smooth Move Ole!!

Sheesh, Some peoples kids!!

Shiloh

[riarcher]

Was getting set up for making 9 mil.
It's on hold for a spell.
No primers,, no need for anything else. :(
Never really maintained a good supply of components. Never needed to.
Times have sure changed in the last 6 mos.

Fishing season is coming, so the range time can go to the back burner til this crazyness passes.
Think I'll work on the boat now.:coffee:

[jdgabbard]

I don't see why you all are so worried about it. I have not had a problem getting supplies. I just bought a 1000 Wolf SP primers the other day for just a hair over $20, and went back the next day to buy some more because they were so dang cheap compared to what you guys are telling me your spending for them. Powder...please. Its still $16 a pound. Brass...no problem. I have a dependable source for once fired...

You know if people would quit freaking out then everyone's problems would completely disappear. I this this is a larger problem in some locales then others. Like I said. I haven't had a problem buying at all.

[e15cap]

Min Wal was at Del Mar this weekend and seemed to have plenty of components altho the line was huge to get to them. Never saw a bigger crowd for the gun show.
Best, Roger

[Russ in WY]

When this Mad rush for reloading components ends, and the shelves at all the stores fill back up. They will gather Dust & the store Owners will be going out of business. This from a Store owner in Wyoming last week. Sad Outlook My 2¢. Russ.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not "fat" on components, but I'll be all right for quite a while. The hoarders are screwing us all over, in my opinion--and the component makers gotta be loving that. CHA-CHING!!

[jdgabbard]

Naw, cause the guys like me will continue to shoot a bunch every week, and will continue to buy every week. I will stop buying Factory Loaded if I can though. Once they figure out that people will pay $X.XX amount they will never lower it. So even when its sitting on the shelves its gonna be over priced...

[shooterg]

Gun show in Roanoke had a few reloading components scattered - saw only 5000 CCI small rifle, but the guy was only asking $20/1000 . Since I already have my stash(yup, I'm a hoarder !) I left 'em for the needy . He had 6/7 cans of Unique for $20 too. Lotta Sierra .223 bullets on one vendor's table, reasonable($84/500). Not a set of .223 dies in the house !
Most dealers said a heckuva rush yesterday - the 'panic" buyers show on Saturday, I guess.
Personally , since the early 90's when we had a primer shortage, I try to keep my stock level, and add to it when I see a dent - below 30,000 and I get nervous !

[jhrosier]

.....
Never really maintained a good supply of components. Never needed to.
Times have sure changed in the last 6 mos......

This will have been a valuable learning experience for many of us.


When this Mad rush for reloading components ends, and the shelves at all the stores fill back up. They will gather Dust & the store Owners will be going out of business. This from a Store owner in Wyoming last week. Sad Outlook My 2¢. Russ.

I think, and hope that you are wrong about this.
I, for one, will never allow my stock of ammo and components to get low again.
I am sure that a huge number of folks have also finally seen the writing on the wall.

It certainly won't seem excessive to keep 20K primers and 50 lbs of powder, or 10K rounds of ammo as an emergency reserve from now on. Most of us spend far more than that would cost for other forms of insurance.

The upside to all that is happening is that the recent sales of hundreds of thousands of firearms and millions of rounds of ammunition can't pass unnoticed by those who would seek to rule us by force or coersion, foriegn or domestic.


The NRA should be offering a free years membership to every first time gun buyer.
Every local gun club and sportsmans association should see the recent increase in gun ownership as an opportunity to grow and make our voices heard.

Jack

[Shiloh]

After the "Great Clinton Primer Scare" I had primers for a long time.
I try to replace what I use. No primers at any of the bigger online suppliers.

Shiloh

[jswaff]

Gander Mountain in Bowling Green KY had Winchester small pistol. $3.99 a flat. Maybe had 10 flats.

[sundog]

Unfortunately, the prices on the out end of this thing will prolly remain at glut levels which means we will pay A LOT more to replenish our working stock. It wasn't all that long ago I was paying $75/5K for primers. Now it's about $135+ or more. I'm sure the antis are grinning.

[Down South]

I bought a good supply of components back last summer. I figured if the election went the wrong way then something like this would happen. I could use a few other items but like others, funds are somewhat limited. As it stands right now even with my normal target shooting and plinking, I have enough to last a few years. I still believe this is all due to folks hording. I think that supplies will gradually come back but prices will most likely stay high, probably even go higher.

[jdgabbard]

I consider myself pretty fortunate. As I mentioned above, I have no problem buy primers, brass, or powder. However, lead is a problem for me. I recently was notified that I had a bucket of WWs waiting on me. However, the bucket turned out not to be full. These days it seems that if the tire shops can put the same weights back on a vehicle they go ahead and do it. Personally I thought that was illegal. But what do I know, right?

I fear I am going to have to make a bulk purchase off of Evil-Bay pretty soon. Which I dread, as I'll go from paying about $0.30 a pound to about $1.20 after shipping. But, I am somewhat lucky in the respect that I'll be getting a pretty good chunk of cash back from the Gov as soon as they send me my check for all the taxes that I over paid...

I figure I'll be able to purchase about half a ton, then spend the rest on other things I've been wanting throughout the year...

[jonk]

Last primers I saw at a show were going for $90 per THOUSAND. Yes you heard right. They were flying off the shelves too and the guy was saying what a deal it was- he had some on gunbroker that ended at $172 per thousand.

At those prices I simply will refuse. My flintlocks will get a lot more use. ;)

[part_timer]

If I thought for one minute I could get $172 per thousand I'd sell 5K worth.

I was at gander mt. the other day killing some time and picked up a 4lb keg of 700x for $65. I thought that was a pretty good price. They had unique, 700x, green dot, 380 and a few others on hand. There were several 8lb kegs of greendot for $125.
No primers.
They had some brass but wanted $39 per hundred. I almost had a heart attack.
Seems that they were going to make all their money an brass.

[trevj]

You know if people would quit freaking out then everyone's problems would completely disappear.

That there is a mouthful of truth, innit!

There are hoarders that use what they buy, eventually, then there are the guys that are just spooked, and buying anything they can find, without having a need for it at all. The guys that are stocking up on stuff that they can use, I can understand. Those buyers that don't need, or don't have a use for the ammo and stuff that they are buying, are stupid, and are wasting their money.

As long as we have guys going around spreading the latest panicked rumor, we are going to have folk beleiving them, and so it continues...

On the up side, the ammo makers are going to weather this tough economic times better than, say, the auto industry.

Maybe a rumor to the effecrt that they are going to ban trucks and cars! :mrgreen:

Cheers
Trev

[Potsy]

I was at the "Reloaders Bench" in Mt. Juliet a couple of weeks ago and saw 100 grain partitions at over 30 bucks a box. Fortunately, I've got enough "deer etc." bullets for the next couple of years. Seems like here there is availability, but at pretty high prices. And, yes, commodity prices have had some to do with it.

Have to wonder if it's gonna be like gas, it'll hit 4 bucks a gallon, and then every body quits driving (or buys air rifles, flintlocks, .22's, etc). Kinda looking forward to that.

[par0thead151]

buy cheap, stack deep.
i missed the bargain 7.62X39 and 308 surplus boat, so i got in on cheap reloading components.
just wish i had bought 2-3X what i did...
now if i could find a source for more lead locally at 20 cents a pound or less... greater milwaukee area

[jdgabbard]

I was one of those guys that bought a couple thou of those milsurp J-word boolits back when they were really cheap. I don't really care for what they're selling them for nowdays. I never load the ones I have. At this point it will take me several years to put them down.