22 Hornet Resizing

[chickenstripe]

I’ve been having case splitting issues with my 22 hornet 100% failure upon firing.
I believe I have determined the problem. The cases were full length sized after the first firing, instead of neck sizing.
Is there any way to save these cases, or are they just doomed to the scrap bin?

[Rocky Raab]

I don't know what is causing your problem, but I doubt it's FL sizing. I FL size all my Hornet loads, and I get up to ten reloads per case - and even then it's almost always loose pockets that get them tossed. I can't remember having a split in a Hornet case.

[StarMetal]

Rocky you may have a tighter chambered Hornet.

Chickenstripe,

If the cases are split there is nothing you can do with them. One of the reasons many Hornet owner rechambered to the K-Hornet was because of brass life. The other of course was a little bit more velocity. I have a CZ Hornet and I use the Lee Neck sizer dies and besides never loosing a case in over 10 years I've shot some of the smallest jacketed groups ever with that combo. Go to neck sizing and see if things improve.

Joe

[chickenstripe]

The case issues do go away when I neck size, but these few loads have FL sized brass.

Upon firing, they split. If I pull the bullets, and reload them, they'll still split.
It's I either have unusable whole brass, or split brass.

I was wondering if anyone had a trick to remedy this situation.

It's a fairly new gun (savage model 40 varminter), so I doubt it is a headspace problem, but you never know.

[StarMetal]

The case issues do go away when I neck size, but these few loads have FL sized brass.

Upon firing, they split. If I pull the bullets, and reload them, they'll still split.
It's I either have unusable whole brass, or split brass.

I was wondering if anyone had a trick to remedy this situation.

It's a fairly new gun (savage model 40 varminter), so I doubt it is a headspace problem, but you never know.

Sounds like you have brass that has become hard and brittle. If it just splits mainly on the neck portion then you may be able to anneal it. Totally dissemble the cartridge and anneal the neck area. Annealing is touchy subject so it's best to look it up either here or on the internet. Importantly never ever anneal the case head. If you do the brass is ruined forever because it's quite dangerous to shoot it then.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Starmetal is correct; "Sounds like you have brass that has become hard and brittle".

I have a lot of R-P 22H cases that about 10% split on the first firing. Since this is/was a new lot of 500 cases I'm not excited about losing them. I am set up to anneal them. I have annealed other cases before so I'm set up with the Lee case holder for an electric screw driver, a propane torch and of course, cold water. The 22H cases are much thinner than other cases so extra care must be used. I put the case in the Lee holder and with it spinning I insert the case neck into the end of the propane flame. I point the case mouth at about a 30 degree angle away so the flame does not travel back over the shoulder. When the neck just starts to turn red I dip the case in the cold water for a few seconds. They cool very quickly and then are removed from the holder. I manage 2-3 cases per minute so it goes fairly quickly. It's not hard or "magical" to anneal cases, even 22H cases, this way.

To get the best accuracy and extend case lift I use a Redding Bushing die to just size the neck enough for a .002' neck tension on the bullets. I also only size to the depth of the seated bullet. I use an M-die to slightly flair the case mouths and have not crushed a 22H case seating a bullet since. The Lee collet die is also a good sizer for extended case lift of 22H cases.

Larry Gibson

[DLCTEX]

I use a version of Larry's method, but substitute a 3/8 socket adapter in my cordless drill and choose a socket that loosely holds the case. Spin and heat the neck, then dump into a bucket of water. Faster than tightening and loosening the case spinner. DALE

[dromia]

I've just shot 100 rds of new bought Winchester jacketed soft point for the cases.

Twenty one of the cases had split necks after the first firing, I'm annealing the remainder before I reload them with cast.

I also shot 80 new bought S&B jacketed hollow points and they were all fine.

The Winchester was obviously more brittle brass and although I haven't measured them I suspect the Winchester is probably thinner as well.

I also use the Lee Collet die to help with concentricity in the chamber and case life.

[robroy]

I partial full length size my hornet brass about 1/4" from the mouth. This leaves about 1/8" unsized infront of the shoulder to help keep things centered in the chamber.

[NHlever]

I have annealed cases by holding them in molten lead until the case head gets warm to hold with my bare hand, and then dumping them in water. I used to do it by standing the cases in a pan of water deep enough to protect the case head, warming them with a propane torch, and then tipping them over into the water. Welders use temperature crayons to heat steel to a given temperature, but I'm not sure if the crayons are available in temperatures low enough for annealing brass. It might be worth a visit to a local welding supply shop to find out though. It would be easier to get them all the same temperature using something like that. I have also reduced headspace in Hornet cases by expanding them with a 6mm die, and then resizing them until they chamber just easily enough that I don't have resistance when I close the bolt, etc. Surprisingly, that didn't change accuracy in my 77/22 which actually likes full length sized cases better. ( and doesn't have anything to do with your split case problem....... sorry)

[303Guy]

The method I use is to stand the cases (with fired primers in place if I can) shoulder deep in water then flame heat the necks. It takes more heat this way, making it easier to control the temp. No tipping over is necessary as the heat dissipates so quickly. (This keeps the case insides dry). I have also taken to annealing new brass before loading.

However, I don't resize my hornet necks at all, instead, I use a paper cup seat. This works better with a heavier bullet since there is no neck tension. (Enough to hold the bullets in place during handling).

[Murphy]

Just my personal experience,

I was shooting a T/C in .22 Hornet about 12-15 years back. Brass life is short to say the least. I don't recall buying any factory loads and trying them, just the gun new in the box, brass, dies, J boolits.

I loaded them for accuracy and if it was a max load, it got the go ahead. It didn't take long before I was getting casehead seperations. If (and it's a big if) I recall correctly, .22 Hornet brass does not thicken towards the web, same thickness from top to bottom.

Hope you find a cure for the split necks, just be prepared for the casehead seperations. Then again hopefully it was just 'my' experience.

Murphy

[StarMetal]

Chickenstripe,

You might do this with the cases that were FL resized and reloaded. Let someone else that has a hornet shoot them..or a few to see if they split. If they don't let that person shoot them up and return the cases to you. Then you may anneal them if you choose. This way you loose the bullet, primer, powder, but you still got the brass. Just a thought.

Joe

[Guesser]

I have a Savage M40 and I use R-P cases and J-word projectiles and full length size because the M40 extractor is weak and have never had a case split until at least 6 loadings. I use H-110 and Lil-Gun powder and Remington 45 gr. HP and JSP with good accuracy. I have to wonder about a chamber dimension problem.

[bdoyle]

"I have to wonder about a chamber dimension problem"

I have to wonder about that also. With my Savage 40 I only partialy resize my cases (winchester) just enough to seat the bullets. I normally use 12.5 gr Lil'gun and 34gr varmint nightmare bullets from midsouth. I'm not sure on the reloading but at least 3 to 4 times. I always have at least 1 to 2 hundred loaded as my daughter really enjoys that rifle.
I'll check some of my fired cases (they are out in the garage).
Brian

[Charlie Sometimes]

Chickenstripe,
What kind of cases are they? I had some brand new Hornady 45 Colt cases split on 2nd firing a few years ago, and I have had some brand new Winchester 22 Hornet come out of the bag split a month or two ago.

The Hornady cases continued to do that for about a third of the lot that I had. It never happened to any other cases.

The Winchesters got through their QC, and I caught it during initial prep. Those hornets are thin! Might just be a bad batch of brass.

[303Guy]

I had a batch of pre-loaded brass (not hornet) that was splitting most necks. I pulled the rest and annealed the necks. The number of splits reduced dramatically and those cases that survived the first firing seem to be surviving the next.

On case head separation with the hornet, there is a simple cure - lube the cartridges! This not only stops head separation but reduces/prevents case elongation. (Remember that the hornet case is not going to reduce bolt face thrust by any significant amount).

[chickenstripe]

The brass I'm using is new R-P brass. Remington small rifle primers, and 12.0gr of Lil'gun under a 40gr Hornady v-max.

I do agree with the "lubing the cases" solution. It does eliminate the problem.

Another eye-opener is that it's pushing this bullet @ 3100fps with this charge. I contacted Hodgdon and the pound of Lil'gun I have is not on the recall list.

Looks as though I may have to try annealing the cases......

[CajunRebel]

Neck size R-P brass, CCI SP primers, 13.0gr of Lil'gun, 40gr Hornady v-max, Lee 22cal taper crimp, in a 26" bbl highwall reproduction. 8 reloadings, never annealed, never a split. Recently reloaded new brass, one day will anneal old cases and see if I can get another 4-5 loadings.

[bdoyle]

I am seeing only .003 expansion on the first .250 of my fired brass with my model 40. I would have got back sooner but a wasp decided to sting me on the side of my nose. (ouch!)

Brian