Mould for a Colt SAA/45 ACP

[KirkD]

Gents, I would like to get one mould to use in two different guns.

Guns:
1. Colt SAA First Generation with a .454 throat and a .454 groove diameter
2. 'Loaded' Springfield 1911 45 ACP

Criteria:
1. I want to use the same bullet in both guns, two different sizing dies.
2. the boolit would have to feed in the 45 Auto.
3. two or four cavity mould, no single cavity moulds for me
4. flat nose for 'smackability', but still able to feed (not sure about the Keith design for feeding in the 1911, although I do like that design for punch at the receiving end)

I've looked around and have narrowed the selection down to the following. Which one would you recommend or not recommend? All are found on the Buffalo Arms website.

1. LYM2660190, .454" 250 Grn. FN Lyman 2-Cav. Mould #454190 http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1548.html
2. LYM2786778, .454" 250 Grn. FN Lyman 4-Cav. Mould #452664 http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4326.html
3. SAE62955, .452"/.454"255 Grn. RNFP Saeco 2-Cav. Bullet Mould http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,2990.html

All of the above look like they would feed through a Springfield 1911 as far as I can see. I'm leaning toward option (2) simply because it is a 4-cavity mould.

Any comments?

[Firebricker]

In a recent handloader magazine Mike V. spoke very highly of rcbs 45-230-cm saying its very versetall. I'm not sure that you can find a mould to cast large enough for 45 colt at .454 and still size down well for acp which will probably need .451-.452 I think the rcbs could pull it off. If they come out at .454 you'd be good for colt and be able to size down nice for 45 acp. I like lyman moulds but I had a 452664 that were way under sized .452 being the goal. So sent it back and tried 454190 which has been great but its not the best mould for 45 acp Ive loaded some and they feed great but its not really made for a taper crimp so just have to watch making sure they don't slip deeper in the case raising pressure. I dont know any thing about the saeco. Thats a long winded opinion don't know if it will help or not. Good luck FB

[FN in MT]

Why handicap yourself?? Buy the proper mould for each pistol.

FN in MT

[anachronism]

454190 Lyman. A "correct" 45 Colt bullet, & I've had satisfactory results in my 1911s.

[HeavyMetal]

I tried this once upon a time and wasn't impressed with the results I got out of the 1911.

The loads were accurate enough but beat the poor 1911 to death. Loads were all in the 20,000 plus range The gun was originally designed for loads in the 16000 range.

I too read Venturino's article on using one mold for mulitiple pistols or rifles. As with most such ideas a good plan on paper but in the real world maybe not so much.

We've all heard that each gun is a rule unto itself! If that wasn't true way would the manufacturers bother with mulitipule designs?

Buy the "right" weight boolit for each gun and you'll be happier in the long run. A 45 Kieth boolit will give you much more flat area and a sharp edge that you give up to use another design for both guns. A 230 TC will work well in the 45 auto.

One Lyman, one Lee your done!

[KirkD]

Men, thank you for your thoughts. Perhaps you are right; one mould for each. My budget is a wee bit tight right now, so I'll get the Colt SAA mould first. Looks like the Keith mould that LYman makes is a bit undersize, so I'll probably go with the 454190. I'll see how it does in my 1911. I've been using Colt 250 grain bullets sized to .452 in my 1911 for over a year now and the only trouble I've had is due to .452 is about .001 too large, so I get the occasional round that does not chamber fully. I pull back on the slide a bit and let 'er rip and that is usually enough to hammer it in. However, those bullets are used up, so I'll be getting a .451 sizing die and probably going down to 230 grain boolits.

[beagle]

I've used the 45-230-CM in both the .45 Colt and .45 ACP in both the Ruger COnvertible .45 as well as in a M1911A1.

TonyB uses it also and turned me on to it. Definitely a good choice if you want one bullet for both./beagle

[KirkD]

Placed my order today for a 2-cavity mould LYman 454190, along with a .454 sizing die.

[ktw]

My experience with the current production Lyman 454190 molds is that they only throw a .452 bullet in wheelweight alloy. Your milage may vary.

if you need 454 you might be better served with the 454190 group buy currently going on (spec'd at 455).

-ktw

[Cherokee]

Another vote for the RCBS 45-230 CM. They cast about 453-454 for me from ACWW.

[Dale53]

Most of the current Lyman moulds are expected to cast for .452". I have a recent two cavity 452664 that casts perfectly for sizing to .452" (just SLIGHTLY larger). It is near perfect. It matches the needs of my Ruger Bisley Vaquero.

I have an older, four cavity, 454424 (260 gr Keith) that casts at .456"-.457" that would be very nice for the old Colt. It is a bit too large for my needs and if I could find someone who wants one bigger for a .452424 four cavity that would be more in line with my needs, I would be happy to make a swap. Mine is in good shape and casts very nice bullets.

The suggestion presented to buy a separate mould for your two handguns is a GOOD suggestion. 260 gr bullets are hard on the 1911. It is regulated for 230 or lighter bullets.
I shoot a lot of .45 ACP's in 1911's and now, in my 625's and prefer the 200 gr SWC but my autos are set up for that load and function perfectly. A standard 1911 may prefer the Lee 230 gr TC.

I have shot my Ruger .45 Colt with a lot of the 452664 with both smokeless AND black powder. That bullet has a "square" grease groove that carries plenty of black powder lube and also works just as well with smokeless. I shot 30/1 lead/tin with black powder and I shoot WW+2% tin with smokeless. I'd probably do just as well using my smokeless alloy with black powder but I have two pots and one is for BPCR and Schuetzen alloy and the other is for smokeles alloy.

Dale53

[Char-Gar]

The old Keith designed 452423 will do what you ask. It was designed for the 45 Auto Rim and does well in both the 45 Colt and 1911 autopistol. Cast from wheelweight it will run about 245 grains and from Lintoype it will go 230. This mold is now discontinued, but we have run a group buy on a clone of this a time or two.

[StarMetal]

I also have the RCBS 45-230 CM and mine cast to .455 to .456 on the alloy I used. I have shot it in everything chambered in 45 Colt and 45 acp with great results.

Joe

[KirkD]

Well I sure hope the 454190 I ordered drops them at least .454" from wheelweights. Wished I'd have checked out the group buy on that 454 mould before I ordered. It shipped today so nothing to do but wait and see.

[Oregon_Dan]

I too would opt for two molds. If you are absolutley certain you have to have one mold for both calibers, I would try and find a Keith 452423. It works well in the 1911, and is close enough to the standard weight for the 45 Colt that you shouldn't have any problems there. It shoots quite well in everything I have tried it in.

Another option would be to try the previously mentioned RCBS 45-230 recommended by Mike V.

[StrawHat]

The old Keith designed 452423 will do what you ask. It was designed for the 45 Auto Rim and does well in both the 45 Colt and 1911 autopistol. Cast from wheelweight it will run about 245 grains and from Lintoype it will go 230. This mold is now discontinued, but we have run a group buy on a clone of this a time or two.


Chargar knows what he's talking about. If you can find it, 452243 is a good bet.

[Dale53]

I think Lyman is missing a good bet. The 452423 would be pretty dern popular with all of the S&W 25's and 625's being shot now, let alone the potential in 1911's.. The alternative bullet, the 452424 is just too heavy for the 1911 but is very useful in the revolvers (and Lyman has dropped THIS in four cavity moulds). SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!

Dale53

[ktw]

The same designs are still available from Ballisti-Cast in 2, 4 or 6 cavity blocks.
Ballsti-cast #1101 ~ H&G 501 ~ Lyman 452424
Ballsti-cast #1102 ~ H&G 502 ~ Lyman 452423

http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Bullet%20Designs%20Page%206.htm

-ktw

[Dale53]

ktw;
I am aware of that, but paying $195.00 vs $77.00 if available from Lyman is quite a leap. On the other hand, I may "force" myself to do just that. If I don't have any luck trading for one in the next few weeks, that could happen. Or, I may just get a Lyman 454664 in four cavity (I have that in two cavity and the other option is just to use that:roll:.)

Dale53

[ktw]

If you really, really want a Lyman 452423 I have a damaged double cavity I'll trade you cheap. :-D

Damaged in the sense that it throws a badly tapered bullet: full size at the driving band and way too small on the base band. If I beagle the crap out of the top edge, squint and hold my mouth just right I can get it to drop decent bullets. I later lucked into one of the group buy 452423 clones and gave up on the Lyman blocks.

-ktw