When is cleaning really cleaning?

[Johnny bravo]

I ask because as a mere infant in BPCR shooting there’s loads to learn and even more to break.

I assumed cleaning my barrel for storage after a shoot involved a few wet patches until they came out looking ‘clean’ and then a couple of dry patches and finally a patch liberally applied with Hoppes 9. Well imagine my shock and horror when last night I put an excessively large patch through and had to ram it out with nearly all my strength- the patch was making a squeaking noise all the while-to find there were black rifling marks on it along with minute shiny specks of lead. This from what I assumed to be a clean barrel:(

After that discovery, I spent couple of hours running boiling hot water and scrubbing the bore with a bronze brush until the water came out black. Just for good measure, after drying, I applied some Barnes CR10 and scrubbed more with a nylon brush and washed it down with more hot water. Finally, the water coming out of the muzzle end was clean. After drying the bore, I forced down a couple of large patches again. These too came out with blackish rifling marks on them. However, these marks were not as dark or dirty- I would say more greyish- as the first one and there weren’t any shiny specks visible to my naked eye:)

So, the question, do I go back and start scrubbing that barrel until these tight patches show up without any streaks or have I done enough?

ATB

[BPCR Bill]

Johnny,
Alot of the guys have used a mix called "Moose Milk" here that is a mix of Ballistol and water. Many won't use Hoppes or any petrol based products in the bore, and some won't use bronze brushes. They can give you the reasons I guess, but as for me I use a commercially available Black Powder solvent and patches, and Kroil (A penetrating oil ) for final clean-up. The first step in my cleaning is to drag a bore snake through the barrel as a first step to get the majority of the crud out first, then final clean-up is a snap. Moose Milk does work very well, it really gets the fouling out better than anything, or so I've read here. I just haven't bought any yet.
To answer your question, though. Yes, you did more than enough to get your barrel clean.

Regards,
Bill

[Don McDowell]

When you want to clean up, just run a dry patch on a jag down the bore. Then follow up with wet patches (I use Simple Green and water) then a couple more dry. If there's no streaking or lead specks, then wipe the bore down with your favorite oil.
If you're getting lead, then a superfine penetrating oil such as Kroil on tight patches on a jag will loosen the lead up. Ballistol will work lead loose also but it takes more swabbing , and isn't quite as quick as Kroil.
For really nasty leading some of the lead clothe as available from ProShoot, or Birchwood Casey etc.

[Johnny bravo]

Thanks BPCR Bill and Don McDowell.

I will sort out my cleaning. However, I am a bit puzzled though. I have been following a proper regime of cleaning which does involve a ‘moose milk’ of sorts; mine is a mixture of 1 part Castrol Cooledge soluble cutting liquid to 3 parts water.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_advantage/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/c/asia_cooledge_bi_tds.pdf

This is what I use for my wet patches whilst wiping in between shots and also for cleaning prior to storage. Wonder how that lead came in?:o

Rgds.

[montana_charlie]

I put an excessively large patch through and had to ram it out with nearly all my strength-
When it becomes evident that you do have leading in the barrel, tight patches soaked with Kroil (or turpentine) are the answer. A patch which is a snug fit in the chamber will require a mallet to be driven through the bore. There are several brands of cleaning rod that are tough enough to take that kind of 'abuse'.

Once the barrel is free of lead, you have to watch to see if it happens again. If it does, it's necessary to find out why...

Do you know how deep your chamber is?

CM

[jonk]

I've only ever used hot soapy water to clean up black powder fouling. Followed by a thorough drying and oiling. Now you are making me wonder if I went at it aggressively what I'd find...

[zampilot]

I run some water and Dawn patches down the bore at the range, when I get home I fill the basin about 5 inches with water and Dawn, use a tight patch and jag to pump the mix up into and back down out of the bore. Finish up with hot water rinse throught the tube via 1/2" hose connected to the faucet which also dries the bore and barrel, wipe down and oil. I take the block out of my Sharps first though.

[BPCR Bill]

Johnny,
Once your barrel is clean, run a patch through it (make it tight) and pay attention for any tight or rough spots in the barrel. Boolit fit for the bore / groove dimension as well as chamber throat is a consideration as well. If you are getting too much boolit "jump" in the throat, your lead is bumping up and very probably causing leading in the throat. Have you done a chamber cast and slugged the barrel? That will tell volumes.

Regards,
Bill

[NickSS]

I clean my BP rifles with a 50-50 mixture of balistol and water on a couple of patches. I follow that with one pass each way with a bronze brush and one more patch of ballistol and water. I then run a dry patch and follow that with a patch saturated with either WD 40 or Sheath and I am done. If I get streaks of lead I also use Kroil before the oil patches. Kroil is the fastest stuff I have found to get lead out.

[Johnny bravo]

Do you know how deep your chamber is?

CM

By that do you mean what's the longest case I can load? The maximum COL for my rifle is 3.025in. I tried this by experimenting with some dummy rounds and closing the block. Anything longer and the block won't close.

BPCR Bill, I have heard about chamber cast but have no idea what it is. Please enlighten me on this.
I did slug the barrel and found out my barrel is .459in diameter. Therefore, I already know any factory made mould I buy will cast bullets smaller than my barrel diameter. I think my Lyman Postell is about .458in diameter. Not ideal, but ok for the time being I guess.
Rgds.

[Don McDowell]

You might want to try beagling that mold , to get to at least .459 diameter, .460 or .461 would probably be better. If those bullets are dropping at .458 , with your .459 bore and the long freebore of the Pedersoli, you'll never get a handle on that leading, and thats not going to help the 1000 yd thing any.

[Johnny bravo]

You might want to try beagling that mold , to get to at least .459 diameter, .460 or .461 would probably be better. .

And what is this beagling all about and who does them?

[Don McDowell]

Beagling a mold is shimming the face of the mold blocks just a bit so the bullet drops at a larger diameter.
I believe you can find information on how to do that here on this site. Your other option might be to special order a mold to a larger diameter. You'ld probably need to visit with Martinibelgium about who to go thru to get that done on your side of the pond.

[northmn]

I have beagled a couple of 30 cal mold using aluminum duct tape. The sizing puts them to round. Put a couple of strips on both sides of the bullet cavity and the bottom. One old trick top remove leading is to wrap a lot of the strands of copper or brass dish pan scrubber material around a brush to push out the leading. Almost any of the cleaning solutions recommended will do the job. I prefer to get a proper mold than use a beagled one. If you are using Lee molds they are really bad for being undersized. I had two of them that miked at 456 with the `1-20 alloy. They barely make size when using the #2. They also do not hold enough lube. Undersize bulltes can cause leading.

Northmn

[fido]

Or you could cast a few bullets and use them to open up the mould with a fine grinding compound, it works well, I have used it on moulds dropping too small and ones that the bullets don't fall out of with a light tap. I use 800 grit clover.
Of cource there is no going back.
Stephen

[BPCR Bill]

Johnny,
A chamber cast is done with a material called Cerrosafe. You can obtain it from Midway USA or perhaps from someone in the UK. It is a low melting point material similar to lead. With a ramrod, push a patch into the barrel from the muzzle until it is maybe 2 inches from the chamber. Take the block out of the rifle, and melt the cerrosafe in a pouring tin with a propane torch. Pour the molten material into the chamber, filling it, including the rim cut. You can take this chamber cast and send it to any custom mould maker. Guys like Dave Farmer (Colorado Shooters Supplies), Steve Brookes, Paul Jones, they all have the ability to make a nice mould for you that will cast a boolit for your rifle. They understand BPCR and the big guns. The moulds are a bit pricy, but you won't regret getting one. The moulds will cast exactly the boolit your rifle will shoot with the proper alloy. These moulds are lathe bored, no cherries, and it is amazing how absolutely round and near perfect the boolits drop out. My Hoch nose pour from Dave Farmer, I really have to look closely to find the line on the boolit from the mould halves. Hope this bit of info helps.

Regards,
Bill

[e15cap]

+1 on what Montana Charlie said. That patch must be tight enough to require a hammer. Check out Arizonasharpsshooters.com, Steve Rhoads has a plastic jag to be used with Dave Mauer's arsenal patches and Kroil. That combo WILL move lead.
Best, Roger

[montana_charlie]

Do you know how deep your chamber is?By that do you mean what's the longest case I can load?

The maximum COL for my rifle is 3.025in.
I am referring to that part of the chamber which holds the brass case, itself. Everything ahead of that (which determines your COL) is the 'throat'.

It is not uncommon for a chamber to be deeper than SAMMI specs call for, and brass cases typically shorten when fired. These can combine to produce a 'lead trap' in the front of the chamber.

So, find out if your chamber is actually 2.1 inches deep...and if your brass is actually 2.1 inches long.

CM