Reloading Freedom Arms 97 45 Colt?

[Naphtali]

Saturday afternoon I shot my first Freedom Arms Model 97 45 Colt. This Model 97 4.75-inch revolver is tiny compared with my Model 83 475s. The handloads I shot, I believe, were 285-grain bullets at 1250 fps. But I must say the Model 97 was comfortable to use despite its ammunition. I was impressed with it -- and I didn't expect to be.

What loading data should be used with the Model 97? Will the revolver safely accept 45 Colt loading data that would be used in Ruger Blackhawks? I suspect the owner of the revolver was loading adventurously. Muzzle blast and recoil were more severe than factory load [equivalent] 475s in my 6-inch Model 83.

[Bullshop]

Nice guns the Freedom arms but way pricey.
I have my eye on one of the new baby BFR's. Thet are a reduced size frame 5 shot 45 colt. The barrel is stamped 45 colt +p so I think that means what I hope it means.
For some reason Magnum Research has been dumping the BRF's on the market for a good price. We just got a few in at $500.00 per unit dealer cost. So far all I see available at this price is the 500 S&W and the 475 Linebaugh. I am wainting to pounce on some of these baby BFR's if they go to that price.
Our Davidsons rep called last week trying to sell some in 454 at $600.00 but I told him they were available for $500.00 eslewhere and I would pay that. No return call on that.
Anyway sorry to steel your thread here but you know the BFR is like a Freedom Arms and at this liquidation price about 30% of the cost. Anybody tried one?
BIC/BS

[ktw]

What loading data should be used with the Model 97? Will the revolver safely accept 45 Colt loading data that would be used in Ruger Blackhawks?

It will handle it but it gets to be quite a handful, if you know what I mean.

I have settled on the old 8.0 - 9.5 grains Unique under a 250-280 grain bullet as a standard load. Lyman 454190's shoot fantastic for me, even out to a couple of hundred yards.

I started out with a Ruger Blackhawk. Shot it for a lot of years. At the time I started wanting something better it was costing somewhere in the range of $1600-$2400 to send it off to someone like Bowen, Clements, Stroh or Linebaugh to have it rebuilt. Turned out to be quite a bit cheaper to sell the Blackhawk and buy an FA 97 instead.

-ktw

[targetshootr]

Fwiw, the 97 cylinder is smaller than a Colt SAA or a Ruger 44 spl.

[Naphtali]

I did, finally, what I should have done first. Queried Freedom. The only restriction is overall cartridge length.

[FN in MT]

The Freedom Arms are probably THE finest revolvers being produced in the USA right now....and for quite some time. Makes me flinch to see an FA compared to a BFR. LOL.

Yes they are a lot of money but you get what you pay for. Saw a new Ruger .44 Spcl flattop a few weeks ago. They are IMHO barely worth DEALER price, much less retail. Poorly fitted and the lock up and trigger action was terrible. Then again a lot of people buy solely by PRICE and live with the results. Cheaper isn't always better.

I've got a pair of FA's. A short barreled 97 in .44 Spcl and a 6" M-83 in 454C with a .45 Colt aux cylinder. The trigger pull, lock up,even simply rotating the cylinder reminds me of either a fine Swiss watch or something made for use on an aircraft engine. The FA's simply drip with PRECISION.

FN in MT

[Bullshop]

No question the Freedom is hight precision. I used to carry one every day at work. When one day I needed it it wouldnt work. All that precision fitting was jamed up with junk that filtered its way in from packin every day.
I then went back to a Ruger not for precision but for dependability, like the old milsurp 1911 loose but dependable.
Now with the price of the BFR closer to the Ruger I will be going that rout. I have had several of the Freedom guns and thought the old ones were best bout like everything else after the name come they seem to slack off a bit. I have seen some recent Freedom guns and some recent BFR's and dont see much differance any more.
The Freedom is nice to look at and talk up but out of the box I bet they wont shoot any better than a BFR, especially with boolits.
BIC/BS

[targetshootr]

I have an 83 that will be for sale if it ever comes back from Jack Huntington who's replacing the firing pin. Lucky for me I don't hunt or it could have broken at a really bad time. Nice gun but I'll stick with custom Rugers.

[Naphtali]

No question the Freedom is hight precision. I used to carry one every day at work. When one day I needed it it wouldnt work. All that precision fitting was jamed up with junk that filtered its way in from packin every day. . . .You have identified the reason I strongly prefer full flap holsters. I just ordered three, for my custom 4.75-inch Super Redhawk 480 and my Freedom Arms 475s, from Wes Daems in Ennis, Montana. He is a first-class craftsman whose prices are not unreasonable. Anyone interested in finding out more about what he does, and how he does it, can reach him at

freedom475@live.com

With the exception of a spongier trigger action, my SRHs appear to be as closely fitted as my Model 83s. I believe that when revolvers are chambered for exceptionally stressful cartridges, you can obtain loosely fitted machines -- but you should accept that their durability will suffer. How much less durable? Dunno.

As for me, I'll continue to protect the machine from crud rather than have it designed to function with crud.

[Dan Cash]

If you pack it and don't maintain it you will sooner or later have great dissappointment. Could be fatal. Don't blame the machine, blame yourself.
Dan

[Bullshop]

I too have returned guns to Freedom for broken firing pin repair. Expensive! as are all things from them.
BIC/BS

[targetshootr]

I too have returned guns to Freedom for broken firing pin repair. Expensive! as are all things from them.
BIC/BS

Yessir. They charge so much I demanded they sell me a firing pin so I could shop for a better labor price. And they don't warranty diddly squat.

[freedom475]

I broke the firing pin on my FA 83 475. The reason that they break is because the retention screw get loose and you don't know it.

I called Freedom and they had a FREE firing pin at my door in 3 days. (Might have fed them some BS about being a gunsmith, but I'm sure they have heard that before:mrgreen:) I live about 250miles from the factory, so maybe me not being form Jersey helped too. Plus it was a Primier Grade and I had just sent the warranty card in.

All it takes is a flat head screw driver and less than 1 minute to change. If you can back-out a screw...you can change the pin.

[WARD O]

A couple of years ago, Brian Pearce did an in depth article on the M97 in 45 Colt with a lot of good comments and reloading data - try to find a copy of this and give it a read!

Ward

[Bullshop]

I was told there was a very limited waranty on the field grade guns. Also that they would not ship parts, that they would only do the work. Same was true for the gripps. They would not ship the gripps alone and would only sell them fitted to the frame by them. It cost $75.00 to get the pin replaced.
My wife sent them my field grade with Pachmayer grip to upgrade to premear grade wood gripps. They charged $250.00 for the gripps plus return shipping.
That seems a bit excessave to me.
BIC/BS

[Lloyd Smale]

i havent heard nothing about a baby bfr. i even looked at there web site and theres no mention. I hope your not refering to the 454/475 sized guns as if they are to be considered babys ma must have been a elephant!
Nice guns the Freedom arms but way pricey.
I have my eye on one of the new baby BFR's. Thet are a reduced size frame 5 shot 45 colt. The barrel is stamped 45 colt +p so I think that means what I hope it means.
For some reason Magnum Research has been dumping the BRF's on the market for a good price. We just got a few in at $500.00 per unit dealer cost. So far all I see available at this price is the 500 S&W and the 475 Linebaugh. I am wainting to pounce on some of these baby BFR's if they go to that price.
Our Davidsons rep called last week trying to sell some in 454 at $600.00 but I told him they were available for $500.00 eslewhere and I would pay that. No return call on that.
Anyway sorry to steel your thread here but you know the BFR is like a Freedom Arms and at this liquidation price about 30% of the cost. Anybody tried one?
BIC/BS

[dubber123]

Lloyd, I had never heard of them before either. Dan thought it was a Cabelas only item, but I think it may be Gander Mountain. I found 1 used on Gunbroker. They wanted plenty for it. The seller was I believe, GanderMountainGuns. It has the square backed, Dragoon style trigger guard.

[ktw]

I was told there was a very limited waranty on the field grade guns.

They state that fairly explicitly on the website.

"Premier Grades have a limited lifetime warranty to the original owner. "
"Field Grade has a limited one year warranty to the original owner. "
http://www.freedomarms.com/guns.html

As does Magnum Research:

What is the warranty on my new BFR revolver?
One-year parts and labor.
http://www.magnumresearch.com/FAQ_BFRRevolver.asp


The Model 97, which was topic of this thread, is only available in the Premier Grade.

I had to ship my M97 back once a couple years after I purchased it. It only cost me shipping one way and I had it back in 7 working days from when I shipped it. I consider that pretty good service.

-ktw

[Naphtali]

Since my original question was answered, by me calling Freedom and asking, I'm interested as the topic goes on various tangents.

[targetshootr]

What I don't comprende is their warranty versus their price. How is it other gun makers, and makers of presses, etc, can charge so much less for their products and give lifetime warranties regardless of the owner? It seems like the reverse would be the norm.

[ktw]

What I don't comprende is their warranty versus their price. How is it other gun makers, and makers of presses, etc, can charge so much less for their products and give lifetime warranties regardless of the owner? It seems like the reverse would be the norm.

How common is a written lifetime warranty among firearms manufacturers?

Smith & Wesson (Modern Revolvers):
"Smith & Wesson firearms are warranted to be free from defects
in material and workmanship. Any such defects of which Smith &
Wesson receives written notice within one year from the date of
purchase by the original owner, will be remedied by Smith &
Wesson without charge within a reasonable time after such notification
and delivery of the firearm as provided below."

Sturm Ruger & Co (Blackhawk)
"The Magnuson-Moss Act (Public Law 93-637) does not require any
seller or manufacturer of a consumer product to give a written
warranty. It does provide that if a written warranty is given, it must be
designated as “limited” or as “full” and sets minimum standards for a
“full” warranty. Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. has elected not to
provide any written warranty, either “limited” or “full”, rather than to
attempt to comply with the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Act and
the regulations issued thereunder."

Remington (Model 700)
"Remington warrants to you, the original purchaser of a new firearm, that for two years from the date of purchase in the United States or Canada, your Remington firearm will be free from defects in material and workmanship."

Marlin (1894 Lever Action Rifles)
This firearm warranty is good only to the ORIGINAL OWNER who has registered ownership with The Marlin Firearms Company at 100 Kenna Drive, North Haven, Connecticut. WARRANTY and CERTIFICATE OF OWNERSHIP card must be completed to The Marlin Firearms Company at the above address WITHIN TEN (10) days of the date of purchase to insure the protection of the warranty. NOTICE of defect in and/or workmanship must be received by the company WITHIN FIVE (5) YEARS of the the date of purchase.

CZ (all)
CZ-USA provides 5 years warranty and all conditions are stated in the warranty card that accompanies every CZ firearm sold. Allow us 4-6 weeks for processing time of the warranty repair

Beretta (all)
The Manufacturer warrants that this firearm was manufactured free of defects in material or workmanship; and for a period of one (1) year after date of original purchase,

Savage (post 1995 production)
STATEMENT OF LIMITED WARRANTY
After buying firearm, please complete the WARRANTY REGISTRATION CARD and return it to Savage Arms, Inc. within ten (10) days from the date of purchase. Savage Arms, Inc. must be notified within one (1) year from the date of purchase of any defect in materials or workmanship encountered during normal use.
WHO IS COVERED?
- The original owner (with proof of purchase)
WHAT IS COVERED?
- Any defect in materials or workmanship performed at Savage Arms
HOW LONG IS THE WARRANTY PERIOD?
- One (1) year from the date of purchase


...

Even RCBS's written warranty does not extend past the original owner

"Limited Lifetime Warranty

Your reloading press, reloading die, manual case trimmer or bullet mould is warranted to be free from defects in material or workmanship for as long as the original owner owns it. This warranty is extended only to the original consumer purchaser. This warranty excludes any electrical components or products."



-ktw

[targetshootr]

How common is a written lifetime warranty among firearms manufacturers?-ktw

You probably know Ruger will repair guns no matter how old or who owns it, at little or no cost to the current owner. I sent two flat tops back recently which lost the ejector stud and they came back reblued with a higher front sight and a new rear sight at no cost to me, even shipping. And RCBS, Dillon, Star, they're the same way.

[ktw]

You probably know Ruger will repair guns no matter how old or who owns it...

That is good customer service. That doesn't have anything to do with a written warranty which is what Freedom Arms was being judged on. Ruger, RCBS, Dillon, Star can decide to change their customer service policies at will. None of them can change their written warranty on a product already sold at will.

It has been my experience that FA has really good customer service too, at least on their premier grade products, provided you play the game their way (send them back the revolver, rather than expect them to send you parts).

-ktw

[targetshootr]

RCBS wanted me to return my ProMelt for a rebuild at their expense. Unreal. One day I might. Dillon said send the 650 back for a cleaning if it ever has a problem, all I pay is shipping. I haven't dealt with Marlin in awhile but I bet they're as easy as dealing with Ruger. The people at FA are nice but they try to squeeze water out of a rock.