Uncharted Territory

[Whitespider]

Well, at least for me it’s uncharted.

First a quick explanation... I have a .22 Hornet Handi-Rifle, Dad has an old .218 Bee built on what appears to be some type of rimfire action (no markings?). Both of these rifles are kept perpetually loaded, and handy for general pest control. Both get shot often because, well... they’re fun to shoot. I reload the Hornet, Dad buys his ammunition and the last box of Bee ammo (50 rounds) he found was marked $75.oo; HOLY CRAP, what’s up with that? Anyway, he passed, and asked if I’d start reloading his Bee; which means I’ll get to play with it for a couple weeks while I come up with a load. [smilie=1:

I’m lookin’ to expand my boolit casting into rifles, specifically the .22 caliber. I’m not completely ignorant when it comes to cast-for-rifles, having done some work with .30 calibers, but I used boolits cast by a friend at the time. I’m thinkin’ that some sort of flat-nose would be preferred for the killing effect on larger pests, such as groundhogs that can go over 30-pounds around here.

What flat-nose boolit designs have been good shooters fur ya’?
Should I be looking at a gas check boolit for the Hornet and Bee?
I have over three tons of WW metal, maybe only 20-pounds Lino., how hard of an alloy for Hornet/Bee velocities?

:confused: I don’t want to water-drop these boolits because I’ll probably cast up several years worth, and store them, once I get them shootin’ to our/my satisfaction.

Thanks guys.
Hey... you's guys got me started in this madness... my questions are the consequences! :mrgreen:

[Shiloh]

Can't help with the .22 cal boolits as I don't shoot them ...yet.

I have shot GC WW that has been water hardened at better than 2000 with no leading.
I now keep them at 1650 or less for accuracy. Try water hardening your alloy and see if it meets your needs. If not, sweeten with some of your lino.

Shiloh

[carpetman]

Whitespider--I have not cast for hornet nor bee. I use the 58 grain RCBS mold in some other .22's and I like the bullet. Not sure if that would be too heavy for those little guys?? You should be launching them about double .22 rimfire velocity and that's a much heavier bullet to boot---so nose etc should be no concern for killing power--they will vastly outdo a .22 rimfire---even .22 magnums.

[Gohon]

I'm using the Lyman mould to cast a 45 grain RN/GC. Great mould by the way which drops beautiful boolits. I don't recall ever seeing a flat nose design in 22 caliber but I've never looked for one either. I cast with straight wheel weights with about 2% tin added and then oven heat treat them using Glen Fryxell's formula. I heat at 410 degrees for one hour and then quench in cold water. This is suppose to give a 18-19 BHN but I won't have my hardness tester until next week (finally bought one) so I can't confirm that. Anyway, I been driving these out of my hornet ahead of 8 grains of H110 at 2300 fps and have had great accuracy with no signs of leading of concern. Crows, armadillos, and a few opossums is all I've shot with them but out to 150 yards it sure anchors them hard.

[leftiye]

The 225438 Lyman (Gohon' 45 grain boolit) is an accurate boollet - looks just like a .22 rimfie boolit. Round nose. If your twists in those rifles are tight enough - 1 in 12 or thereabouts, then the 225415 is a flat nose. Lyman made a bunch of versions of both, the 438 is said to be 45 to 48 grains, and the 415 goes about 49 to 55 grains. These are the most popular 22 desgns, and there are quite a few other designs.

[corvette8n]

Not sure if this will work

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000622BATOR

out of stock now but click on the link to have them email when it comes in.

looks like it is a flat nose gas check.

[beagle]

No experience with the Bee but I keep a Hornet loaded here all the time for blackbirds and a .222 Rem and a .223 in reserve..

Since I'm into hollow point bullets, either the 225438 or 225415 in the HP version work well.

I'd go with a GC design as frankly, it's hard to find a PB design unless you luck up on a 225353 which is pretty rare.

Jump right on in to the cast .22s. It's fun and they're great on varmints and for general plinking./beagle

[JIMinPHX]

the last box of Bee ammo (50 rounds) he found was marked $75.oo; HOLY CRAP,


:holysheep That's insane. :shock:

I don't load for the bee, but I have done some other .22s. I've had good luck with that flat-pointed Lee Bator in a .223. I got it up over 3,000 fps with no leading using Moly lube. Accuracy was not good until I got down around 2000-2300fps. I had worse results from a Lyman 225415, which is a shame, because I like the way that boolit looks. My .223 had a 1:12 twist. If your twist is slower, then you may need to stay with shorter boolits & something like the Lyman 225107 may be a better option.

The Bator mold normally takes at least 4 months to get. It's a special order item. If you want to try that, you are probably better off asking someone here on the board to mail you a handful of boolits that they already have cast.

[AZ-Stew]

Whitespider,

Lyman 55gr FP, http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=104009

And the RCBS 22-55gr Semi-Pointed, http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=505796

Are available via Midway USA.

Both are "flat point" designs. I'd think either would be very effective from a Hornet or Bee. Probably even more so if hollowpointed suing the Forster tool.

Regards,

Stew

[JIMinPHX]

Lyman 55gr FP, http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=104009
...
available via Midway USA.
...
Stew

That is the same Lyman 225415 that I tried. The Lyman book lists it as a 45 grain boolit, but the modern molds throw a 55. The new ones seem to have longer gas check shanks on them & the extra length probably adds the extra weight. If you wanted it at the original 45 grain weight, you could probably get someone to fly cut a bit off the top of a modern mold.

[Whitespider]

Thanks guys,

I've spotted a 225438 HP version on eBay, that looks interesting, but I'll most likely have to pay right up for it.
The Lee Bator looks good also, if the rifles will handle 55-grain.
One of the members has offered, via email, to send me some 225415 boolits to try, that will tell give me a chance to try some 55-grainers first.

And like Beagle says, I think this is gonna be "fun".

[Bret4207]

WS, got a pic of Dad's rifle? We could probably ID it.

If you get into any of the older Lyman books they'll give good dope on the Bee. Sweet little cartridge, I have a Mod 43 Win in 218. 'Fraid I have yet to run a cast boolit through it IIRC.

[KYCaster]

You got 30 lb. groundhogs??? :shock:

Jerry

[cbrick]

I'm currently working on loads in the Hornet with 225438 but haven't settled on anything yet. Here's what it looks like up close.

Rick

http://www.lasc.us/Lyman44gr22cal-9.jpg

[snaggdit]

At 30#, they might be usable for food! LOL

[cbrick]

I haven't bought any factory ammo in at least 25 years and I have heard it's getting pricey BUT $75.00 for 50 rounds of 22 ammo . . . well that had to be a typo. I just looked at it at Midway and holy ammo Batman . . . 70 bucks plus shipping and it's out of stock??? Back ordered at over $1.50 a pop??? If you bought a brand new 218 Bee rifle for say $700.00 you would have more money in 22 ammo than in the rifle before you put 500 rounds through it.

Maybe I'm a tight wad but for the price of a few boxes of that stuff you could buy a used press, used dies, used measure & scale, powder, primers, funny looking brown bullets and a book and have several hundred rounds. Plus you'd be set for lot's more on down the road. For $70.00 you could buy a mould and have tens of thousands of boolits.

Rick

[BCall]

I've got a Ruger #1 in 218 Bee, haven't had it for long, and I think my knees buckled when I saw that first box of factory ammo. I have bought very little factory stuff over the years, but 218 Bee brass is mighty scarce these days, and I was wanting the brass, but I had to pass. i don't know how they can justify it, maybe it is the brass, but I won't buy any. I hope he saved plenty of brass, I ended up necking down 25-20 brass to start with, until I found some bee brass. When I found it, I bought all they had. Not in stock any where I know of now. I've got 2 molds now, and have cast a few hundred boolits for it and my hornet, just haven't got to shoot them yet. The ones I bought from Bullshop worked well enough, it convinced me to do my own. Can't wait to shoot some more. Billy

[JeffinNZ]

I used to shoot a 225415 over 5gr 800X in my CZ Hornet for 1900fps. Shot really well and was great on small game.

[quack1]

I shoot the Lee Bator, unchecked, out of my Mod 43 Win. Bee as a plinking load. I'm at work now and won't trust my memory for charge weight, but 2400 gives me around 1" at 100 yds.
I plan on working up a faster load this summer, with checks, and using it to hunt groundhogs.

[beagle]

Pick up a good 225438 and have Buckshot HP it and you'll come out ahead of Ebay's prices as it will go high./beagle


Thanks guys,

I've spotted a 225438 HP version on eBay, that looks interesting, but I'll most likely have to pay right up for it.
The Lee Bator looks good also, if the rifles will handle 55-grain.
One of the members has offered, via email, to send me some 225415 boolits to try, that will tell give me a chance to try some 55-grainers first.

And like Beagle says, I think this is gonna be "fun".

[Whitespider]

beagle

I Just bought a 225438 (non-HP) on Ebay, an older Ideal single cavity without vent lines. Looks like it's in really good condition, described as "very good", guess I'll know fur sure when it gets here. The 225438HP I was lookin' at is already up to $53.oo and there's 4-days left before the auction ends, I decided to pass!

Now I need gas checks (never used checks before), a sizing die (haven't slugged the bore yet), top punch (I haven't even put lube in the Lyman 450 I bought, not even sure how the darn thing works), gonna be a learning project fur sure.

How much does Buckshot charge to HP a mold? Turn-around time?

Damn, this is fun; ain't it!?!