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44man
02-22-2008, 10:04 AM
Spin-off from my "just the facts" recipe only thread
:coffeecom
Discussion of lube properties and ingredients.
Thanks, 45nut


45nut, one of us has to figure the weight of the beeswax to make it easier. Most blocks are very large, mine are 4# blocks. It can get confusing for someone new.

For which recipe? ,, Either way I will post links to the original threads.

These are not my recipes, I will defer to the eggspurts and cooks. :)

mroliver77
02-22-2008, 08:49 PM
For muzzle loading rifles I use white hand cleaner to soak the patches. An old feller that shot competition ML used this(he recomended D&L brand) and it works great for me.

SHOOTER IN EXILE
03-06-2008, 07:39 PM
For years I have been using a 50/50 mix by volume, beeswax and common animal fat for bullet lubing and also for resizing shells for pistol and rifle. I like to keep it simple, cheap and easy to get. Didn't notice any difference with commercial lube, in accuracy or barrel leading. I find it better than other lubes for resizing. Please note that it is a slow procedure. I usually reload between 200 and 300 rounds in one session. With all due respect for the formulas posted by other members.

Molly
03-06-2008, 11:57 PM
For years I have been using a 50/50 mix by volume, beeswax and common animal fat for bullet lubing and also for resizing shells for pistol and rifle. ... With all due respect for the formulas posted by other members.

Isn't it strange that nobody has noticed that since just about everything you can think of - including talcum powder - has been used more or less successfully in bullet lubes, (as witnessed by the plethora of recipies listed here and elsewhere. ) In turn, that suggests that darn near anything CAN be used as a bullet lube, depending on the severity of the load.

I happen to like the various Alox based lubes, but I'm well aware that genericly, they are all what one might call 'burnt grease' ("oxidized petroleum fractions...". And they not only make great bullet lube, they make darn good resizing lube too. You can cut them with a bit of lighter fluid to make them easier to spray on cases, or to roll cases on a soaked rag.
Molly

bushka
04-11-2008, 10:41 AM
sperm oil substitute was said to be starrett oil,very fine oil.
maybe singer sewing machine oil/glass cutting oil may work also.

mauser1959
07-25-2008, 05:28 AM
Bullet Lube Melting Points


Product #
272327 Thompson Red Angel Bullet Lube Hollow 240 degrees
526800 Rooster Red Zambini Bullet Lube Hollow 220 degrees
149803 Rooster Red Zambini Bullet Lube Solid 220 degrees
503552 Rooster Red High-Velocity Rifle Bullet Lube Hollow 200 degrees
653882 Javelina Alox Bullet Lube Hollow 190 degrees
637649 Lyman Black Powder Gold Lube 150 degrees
461543 Lyman Super Moly Lube 150 degrees
521810 Lyman Orange Magic Hollow 150 degrees
341106 Lyman Ideal Bullet Lubricant Hollow 141 degrees
309145 Saeco Green Bullet Lube Hollow 140 degrees
120084 Saeco Gold Bullet Lube Hollow 140 degrees
542859 SPG Bullet Lube 140 degrees
178480 Thompson Bear Lube Heat Hollow 135 degrees
785628 Lyman Alox Bullet Lube Hollow 130 degrees
352552 Thompson Bear Lube Cold Hollow 125 degrees
254626 Thompson Blue Angel Bullet Lube Solid 125-140 degrees
667050 Thompson Blue Angel Bullet Lube Hollow 125-140 degrees
670747 RCBS Pistol Bullet Lubricant Hollow 115 degrees
267941 RCBS Rifle Bullet Lubricant Hollow 115 degrees
632694 Lee Alox Bullet Lube Stick Hollow Room temperature,
needs no heater



©2005 MidwayUSA, Inc.
All Rights Reserved


Paraffin has a melting point of about 116.6°F to 147.2°F

Beeswax has a melting point of about 144 to 147 °F

Carnauba wax is has a melting point of about 172.4 to 185

Not sure what it all means , but it looks to me to be a good jumping off point as to what should be some interesting experimenting on at least how factory lubes are made.

Maybe this is not of interest to most here , but it sparked an interest to me... especially since I use glen's bullet lube and it has a fairly low MP.

Marlin Junky
08-01-2008, 06:08 PM
What is this Javelina Alox Bullet Lube that melts at 190 degrees? My Javelina 50/50 will slide out of the lube grooves when the boolits are stored under the center arm rest (where the DVD's go) of my Monte Carlo.

MJ

Just Duke
08-02-2008, 10:32 AM
White Label Carnuba Red? Formula?
http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/
TIA,
Duke

Please delete if anyone has the formula 45Nut. Thanks

TCLouis
11-09-2008, 11:29 AM
in it's original form.

DoAll brand product "Tool Saver"

Works for black and smokeless powder loading and may feed through a luber without heat.

Looks a whole lot like FWFWL too!

waksupi
12-06-2008, 09:46 AM
hi guys! followed a link to here from a lube recipe thread on packing4life and love it. Something I haven't seen here yet is a tip I picked up on a candlemaking site while looking for wax: put the ingredients in a heavy zip-lock bag and drop it in boiling water........no smoke, no flash over. to get stearic acid to melt well I had to put the lid on for a couple minutes, as the top of the bag was cooling things down while the water was trying to heat them up.:-D

Welcome aboard, Sliverpicker. It's always good to have new people, especially when they show up with a good tip right off the bat!

chris e
01-06-2009, 03:20 PM
Where can one get carnuba wax or flakes?

sliverpicker
01-10-2009, 02:14 AM
http://www.thesage.com/catalog/fullcat.html $4.45/8oz or $7.15/lb
or the link early in the article above, $6.80 a pound.

Topper
03-08-2009, 02:09 AM
one of us has to figure the weight of the beeswax to make it easier. Most blocks are very large, mine are 4# blocks. It can get confusing for someone new.
Freeze it over night, take it out and wrap it in an old clean towel, then bust it up with a hammer.
1ounce = 437.5 grains so you can use a powder scale for weighing exact amount.

dominicfortune00
03-08-2009, 10:55 PM
[QUOTE=TCLouis;425624]in it's original form.

DoAll brand product "Tool Saver"QUOTE]

I've used 'Tool Saver' for tapping aluminum and it works great.

Never thought of it as a bullet lube.

jimkim
03-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Rebel Red.

This gives me extreme accuracy, very little smoke and no leading in my handgun rounds. Requires no heater. All ingredients except for one are very easy and inexpensive to find. The only one that you'll have to seek out a specialty shop for is the soft wax specifically for container candles.

This is important because not all candle waxes are created equally. The soft bricks made specially for container candles are softer because once melted, they will be poured into existing containers (for the new candles) and do not have to be stiff to stand upright on their own.

However, this stuff is SUPERB as a base for boolit lube and a little goes a LONG way. Do not let the stickiness/tackiness upon first contact scare you off. Once it is melted and then cools, it firms up nicely and almost all of the tackiness goes away.

Here is the formula:

2 oz by weight of soft container candle wax
3 oz by measurement of ATF (doesn't matter which type)
3 oz by measurement of Marvel Mystery Oil
1 heaping tablespoon Johnsons Paste Wax
1 tablespoon of powdered/shaved Ivory Soap
1 teaspoon of Lee Liquid Alox
1/4 teaspoon Permatex anti-seize lube
Beeswax as needed to firm up to personal preference

Let the container candle wax melt. I mix mine up in an old dollar store pot on top of a hot plate set at 350 F. When candle wax is completely melted, pour in 3 oz of ATF fluid. Stir in completely and continue to stir for at least one or two minutes until mix has come back up to temperature.

Add 3 oz of Marvel Mystery Oil. Repeat stiring until mix has come back up to temperature.

Add the heaping tablespoon of JPW, repeat. Add the LLA. This will take a lot of stirring and you may need to increase the burner heat. Once mixed in, add a level tablespoon of Ivory soap powder/small shavings (I use a fine grater to get me the powder form). Stir in well.

When you add the 1/4 teaspoon of Permatex, it will make the mixture swirl and separate and look like an old 60's/70's psychodelic light show. Enjoy while you continue to cook and stir. The stuff will not mix 100% in, but does blend in nicely upon cooling.

Add in a couple of ounces of beeswax, stir in good then pour a sample out into a small container and let cool. I put the small container into the fridge.

What you're looking for now is firmness. If you use a heater with your lubesizer or prefer to pan lube, you can add more beeswax for firmness/hardness. If you prefer a bit softer lube that flows well, check firmness by hand and add beeswax as needed.

This is a pretty easy formula to mix up, doesn't require a double-boiler set up and you can manipulate the firmness by addition of beeswax. It shoots well for me and makes barrel cleanup a non-event. Enjoy.

:coffee:

By container wax do you mean soy wax?

Recluse
03-10-2009, 10:41 PM
By container wax do you mean soy wax?

No, this stuff isn't soy wax. It's the dangdest stuff. . . I'm in a conversation with someone over on CBA forum about this stuff as well. I haven't bought any in two or three years--last time I bought some, I bought a LOT as the wife and I also make candles for around the house and a few friends.

This stuff is really easy to work with, stays somewhat sticky (which is what I WANT in a lube) and allows all other ingredients to blend and mix perfectly. I haven't always had it that easy with beeswax or paraffin. But this stuff is EASY--and, it doesn't smoke.

Regarding the lube recipe I posted up above, I shot a little over 300 .38 Special wadcutters the other day and then examined my bore. Shiny, clean, and barely even any powder fouling. Accuracy was superb. Shot 200 .45 ACP 200SWC same day with same results. Zero leading, unbelievably clean bore, very very good and consistent accuracy.

Haven't pushed it (this lube) beyond 1500fps yet, so I reckon that will be the true test. But for my handgun loads, it's fantastic. Hope like all getout that I can find some more of this base ingredient.

:coffee:

jimkim
03-11-2009, 12:50 AM
I hate to keep bugging you, but you don't know the brand name and type do you? Is it one of these? CBL-125 http://www.candlewic.com/candle-wax/pop-blends.asp
J-50 or J-223 http://www.tristatecandlesupply.net/Candle_Making_Wax/index.php I am really interested in this.

Recluse
03-11-2009, 11:59 AM
The properties of the stuff act more like what is described in the J50, but I do not know that that is what it is. As I told the other moderator over at CBA, I need to go buy this shop and see if they have any more of the stuff. If so, I'll pick some up. If not, I'll ask her (shop owner) if she can remember what the stuff is/was. She's a flakey woman--you have to catch her on the right day at the right hour and minute. Not friendly at all. Running an organic herbs and candle and scent shop, I doubt she'd be real happy knowing her precious wax is going towards the purpose of helping make loaded ammunition.:Fire: :mrgreen: I'll try to get over there in the next couple of days. Will let you know what I find out.

:coffee:

jimkim
03-11-2009, 04:10 PM
She's a flakey woman--you have to catch her on the right day at the right hour and minute. ..... Will let you know what I find out.

:coffee:

Thanks. I think the flakey part is a requirement to work in a place like that. Around here the shops make most of their money selling bongs, pipes, witchcraft books, and witchcraft supplies. They are run by the hippies that ate the brown acid at Woodstock.

madsenshooter
03-12-2009, 10:36 AM
Thanks. I think the flakey part is a requirement to work in a place like that. Around here the shops make most of their money selling bongs, pipes, witchcraft books, and witchcraft supplies. They are run by the hippies that ate the brown acid at Woodstock.

I know some of those people! Interesting, and many are still around after all these years! Reading some of these posts has me wondering about the hot melt glue used on the various bookbinding equipment at work. I think some of them might have some application as bullet lube, mixed with some other ingredients, not straight. I've found one in particular that I've used to thicken Carnauba Red for dip lubing, firms it up nicely.

Back to the people, I know one in particular who used to travel to India, Nepal, Afghanistan and such places, buy the items real cheap and have them imported. He was a major supplier to head shops in the Eastern US. After the importation of such items was made illegal, he got a call said he had one last shipment, please come and pick it up. He did, and when he arrived home with it, found his farm invaded by DEA and Customs agents. He spent 5 years in a cushy federal prison for importing drug paraphernalia. You can make it here, but you can't import it.

jimkim
03-12-2009, 10:55 AM
The main one in Warner Robins used to sell film cleaner. Why would a candle majic shop sell film cleaner you ask, why for huffing purposes of course. I never knew what all these "crackheads" could use until I went in their one day. It really wasn't my scene so I left. Have you ever felt disease when you entered a room. It isn't a good feeling at all. Those that have will know what I am talking about. Now I am thinking that I might buy some wax just so I can tell them what I'll be using it for.

45nut
03-12-2009, 07:31 PM
:coffeecom:
Discussion of lube properties and ingredients.

oldtoolsniper
03-12-2009, 09:07 PM
Doall tool saver msds

INGREDIENTS: CAS #: OSHA PEL: ACGIH TLV: PERCENT:
Paraffin Wax 64742-51-4 2 mg./cu.m. 2 mg./cu.m. 40.0
Severely Hydro-treated NaphthenicOil 64742-52-5 5 mg./cu.m. 5 mg./cu.m. 36.0
Microcrystalline Wax 63231-60-7 2 mg./cu. m. 2 mg./cu.m. 16.0
Tallow 61789-97-7 --- --- 5.0
Carnauba wax 8015-86-9 --- --- 2.0
Zinc Napthenate 12001-85-3 --- --- 1.0
=== SECTION III PHYSICAL DATA ==============
Boiling Point: ND
Specific Gravity: 0.750 (Water = 1)
Vapor Pressure: NA
Melting Point: 163 degrees Fahrenheit
Vapor Density: NA
Evaporation Rate: ND (BuAc = 1)
Solubility in Water: Insoluble
pH: NA
Appearance: Tan Solid
Odor: Petroleum

runfiverun
03-13-2009, 01:11 AM
those sound similar to what is in jpw up there.
i like the scented candle wax for lube purposs too but mix it with bees wax at about a 70-30 ratio b-wax to candle. then add jpw at about 20% and lucas oil treatmentat about 10% all by volumne dictated by the size of the candle.
then melt and use a beater to mix in alox from lars at about a 30% ratio while the mix is still hot.
then finally mix this to his carnuba red at a ratio of 1-1/2 to 1 mine to his.
and while still in liquid state i add lanolin to add softness and flexibility.
this mix still needs heat to run through the sizer but retains it's maleability even when cold and can be formed by hand into sticks.
it's a nice soft/hard lube that i have pushed over 2300 fps with no smoke and good accuracy.

Hip's Ax
04-06-2009, 10:35 AM
Perhaps the container candle wax is this Yaley Creme stuff???

Sure would like to know what Recluse's soft wax is and where to get it.

http://www.yaley.com/category_s/197.htm

BABore
04-06-2009, 10:50 AM
For your softer, tacky wax, try microcrystalline wax. Similar propertiest to BW, but better.

http://www.blendedwaxes.com/blendedwaxes/paraffin++microcrystalline/default.asp

I use the BW-408. It makes a fine lube all by itself. The addition of a little jojoba oil and either caranuba or parafine as a stiffener do real well. I even melted some, then added mineral sprits, a little alox 350, and a touch of jojoba oil to it for a dip lube.

Crazy4nitro
04-07-2009, 03:47 AM
I have searched and I must be missing something.
But How does using petroleum products in Bullet Lube affect the powder under long term storage.
I wouldnt worry about like less then a Year but maybe after Years of Storage.
Anyone know or have Experiance?

'Nitro

JSnover
04-07-2009, 11:54 AM
The lube tends to get squeezed upwards as the boolit is seated in the case. As long as you don't have any on the base of the boolit, I don't think it would cause much trouble. Even less to worry about if you use an over powder wad. I don't have direct experience with long-term cast loads but I've known people who claim to have pulled apart 100+ year-old 45-70 cartridges and looked over the powder. They claimed it was still good.