S&W 19-5 Throat Question

[Doc_Stihl]

I've got a Smith that just wouldn't shoot reliably with cast bullets. I tried unsized-sized 357+358, tumble lube, plain base, gas check, high velocity 357's, pop gun 38s and nothing would group. So I checked the throats with pin gauges and low and behold it's a tight .356, EVERY throat. My 586 and 686 both gauge a tight .357 and shoot like a dream. So my question is... is .356 too tight? I haven't slugged the bore yet, because if the throats need work, I might just put it in the back of the closet for a while.

[timkelley]

Throats should be about two thousandths bigger than the bore for cast. Slug the bore, then you will know how large the throats should be. Once the throats are correct then size your boolits to those throats and you can't hardly help but have them shoot good.

[HeavyMetal]

You got issue's!

In all honesty I should suggest that you slug your bore and see what that measure's before you have the throats opened but I bet it'll be 357 to 358. This means opening the throats.

If you bought this new Call Smith and get it taken care of under warranty. If it's not new, this explains why it was for sale, you can foot the bill yourself or take it back ( if you bought it at a shop) and ask for assistance or a refund.

If you bought it from a private party your stuck. Mind you it is possible the person you got it from never fired it ( I have done deals where I got a gun in trade with other stuff I was more interested in and then sold the gun without firing a SHOT!) So don't jump to a conclusion until you ask the seller.

As far as sticking it back in the closet? I don't think this is a high dollar repair ( 40 vs 140) but I have never had it done so won't swear to it.

Hopefully someone that has had throats opened recently ( in the last yr?) will chime in with who and what they payed to have it done.

Fortuneately for you this is a 357 ( 38 spec very popular in cowboy shooting) so the reamer should be pretty available!

[Leadforbrains]

I saw this link in another thread about the same thing.
http://www.cylindersmith.com/

[StarMetal]

I'll tell you another thing about the Model 19. They have a very thin barrel where it threads into the frame. One reason for the heavier duty L frames. Lots of magnum loads split the forcing cones on them, but the problem is being so thin that when they thread them in it crushes the barrel some there and that makes a constriction in the bore. The way to find out is tap a slug in the muzzle like you would do for miking the bore and then slowly tap it towards the frame. If it gets tighter right there where the threads are it's constricted. You can also mike the bore at the muzzle, the with another slug mic the bore at the breach where the threads are and compare the measurements. If breach one measures tighters it's constricted. Mine was and I lapped just that threaded section out and it improved on accuracy. I know that you have tight cylinders mouth, but just telling you what else to look for. One other thing I did was tapped the rear sight screw hole for the next larger size using a new allen socket screw with some loctite to insure it wouldn't come loose anymore. Mine did. That's a pretty small screw Smith uses on those.

Joe

[Doc_Stihl]

I'll be slugging the bore this weekend. I'll drop the pistol off to a local smith early next week. Luckily for me, my brother has a .41 that needs 1 throat opened on his Ruger. I'm already headed that way.

I appreciate the help from everyone.

Starmetal - I'll surely check the forcing cone and breach. The rear sight screw is what started all this. Wife wasn't happy at how it was shooting.
HeavyMetal - I've had the gun for 8 or 9 years, bought it from a shop that's now closed. It was the wifes carry gun, she's been on pregnancy hiatus for 4 years and has just started to shoot again. In the past all the gun digested was light 357 JHP rounds and did fine. It's just now that I discovered the issue. (Having to eat humble pie to do it) After 40 or so lead 38 rounds she tells me her sights are off. Having not shot in a LONG while I told her it was likely she was jerking the trigger(I even had the gall to tell her, "Everyone thinks their sights are off when they're not shooting well"). She shot 2 more cylinders, was unimpressed, walked over to my bench and grabbed my 586 with 180GR H110 backed 357 mags and drilled 6 shots in a fine group. That ended the discussion. I've been diagnosing since. Sure enough the rear sight was floating around at the end of adjustment, that lead to 400 cast rounds down the pipe and to where I am now.

[dubber123]

Joes suggestion of a constricted throat is a good one. I just firelapped an old 32-20 S&W that had a healthy restriction there, and it helped tremendously. Easy to do also.

Make sure to let us know the bore dimensions. I have a bunch of Smiths, and all run closer to .358" on the throats.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm intersted in how this turns out.

Your not the first to have a smith that shoots fair to well with jacketed bullets only to do poorly with lead.

Yours could have a couple issues and the constricted bore is a strong possiblity as well as to tight in the throats.

Loose sights on a smith are also pretty common. Swensen, the 45 auto gunsmith, used to use at least one 6-48 (screw) when he mounted j frame adjustables on his custom 45's and sometimes two! I have seen bigger screws on 29's as well.

Considering age of the gun and closed seller it kinda looks like your on your own with this repair. To bad, this is something the factory might have taken care of.

By the way anyone know what S&W warranty is then and now? It might still be covered.

[Char-Gar]

I have owned over 100 Smith and Wesson sixguns and have measured the barrel groove and cylinder throats on the all and have a pretty good little data base.

I have only found one sixgun (a model 36) in 38/357 that had cylinder throats less than .357 and that sixgun ran like yours .356.

I have only found one sixgun (a 1955 vintage K-38) with a barrel groove diamters of less than .357 and it was .356.

Smiths are pretty steady with cylinders running .357 - .358 and the barrels running the same.

I have seen greater swings in the 44s. and 45s.

Chances are, you do need to have those throats opened up. It won't hurt and probably will help. Go with .358 for good measure.

I have yet to find a Smith and Wesson sixgun that could not be coaxed to give decent accuracy with cast bullets. Sometimes it requires quite a bit of coaxing, and even so, some have only given mediocre performance. But that vast majority have been cast bullet shooting wonders.