PDA

View Full Version : "Current" Obsolete Loading Manuals



NVcurmudgeon
02-03-2006, 08:29 PM
WARNING-OPINION AHEAD (no proof offered, nor flames acknowledged.) This is regarding those loading manuals that I consider to be the majors. IMO, they would include manuals offered by ammunition makers, large jacketed bullet makers, and powder makers. Two other sources that should be added to my list are Lyman, and Ken Waters' "Pet Loads." Shotgun manuals, very specialized manuals such as how to paper patch cast bullets for European Scheutzen rifles, and electronic manuals will not be addressed. (I don't have room enough on my loading bench for a computer.)

Most of the majors do a pretty good job of publishing updated manuals at resonable intervals. My pet peeve in this area is that some manuals can become quite long in the tooth without their publishers trumpeting how old they are in their advertising. Along with this goes reprinting verbatim data that was poorly researched or outdated in the PREVIOUS edition. It is only after the purchaser buys his "new" manual that he discovers that it dates from President Reagan's first national campaign.

There are two of the oldest and largest of the loading publishers that commit at least one of the above irritations. Speer No. 13 was published in 1998, and much of it was a reprint of Speer No. 12. Particularly obnoxious to me was their data in No. 12 for the .35 Whelen. Velocities listed for the Whelen were lower than those for the .358 Winchester. I wrote to Mr. Jones of Speer and was told that Remington had not been forthcoming with "calibration ammo," IIRC, so Speer could not load to factory pressure standards. Fair enough, and Mr. Jones promised to send me the updated .35 Whelen data as soon as they had it. A year or two went by without my receiving the new data, so I wrote again. The second letter was ignored or lost in the mail. But not to worry! Exciting news from Lewiston! Speer No. 13 was being published! I rushed tight down to the gun shop for my copy of the latest and greatest. With trembling fingers I quickly turned to the .35 Whelen section to find........an exact reprint of the wimpy data from Speer No. 12. I am managing to curb my eagerness anticipating the arrival of Speer No. 14. If Speer is a little behind the times, Lyman's Cast Bullet Manual is nothing short of disgracefully out of date, having first seen the light of day in 1980. Lyman, however, has the saving grace of providing a gold mine of information, particularly for the beginning caster. Lyman also has some mythological information that should be culled from future editions of their CBH as mercilessly as I would remelt a wrinkled boolit. And it is high time for a new edition.

IMO, Speer is suffering from conglomerateitis. They used to be very responsive to customer letters forty years ago, before they became a mogul. Lyman, of course, is still debating whether to allow themselves to be dragged kicking and screaming into the twentieth century. Shhh! Don't let it become known in Connecticut that there is now a twentyfirst.

9.3X62AL
02-03-2006, 09:50 PM
Good points all around, Bill.

I have gotten accustomed to "striking out on my own" load-wise from time to time. This is required when you load calibers like the 30 Mauser in 1990, to include making one's own cases......or a real trivia item, the 7.65 MAS for the French M-1935 service pistol. Ya won't find brass laying around at the range for that one.

RCBS/Speer/Huntington's has always meant SERVICE to me. What a shame if corporate expansionism makes that go away. Sorta like the old Soviet Union--it had to keep expanding, due to hollowness and rot at its core. Once expansion stopped--so did the scam. Just like a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. And I hope I'm wrong as h--l regarding those companies.

David R
02-03-2006, 10:43 PM
Hmm

I have the Lyman 46 edition. It was my first reloading manual. I read it cover to cover. Good info for a beginner.

THEN kenjudo (i'm sure I butchered his handle) sold me the 1958 original cast boolit handbook. DAYM if it didn't have the exact same pictures of them cutting a mold............What was that about the twenty first centruy?

Most of the loads are the same, the older versions only use the "basic" powders, and keep velocity low. Sometimes I use medium speed powder for J boolits of the same weight of cast. I use the starting load as max or 60% of Max as a starting load.

Some unusual loads in the older non lawyer manuals though. I enjoy reading those old books. Even the pictures speak of the time they were written.

David

slughammer
02-03-2006, 10:45 PM
Some of the better data I get is from the powder manufacturers. Hodgdon is doing pretty well. Winchester is terrible and has been terrible, FOREVER; for years their only 44spl load was W231 with a 246lrn.

Best now a days is probably accurate, seems like they are actually trying; at least they have mold numbers listed.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm

Check out the data for 30-06 http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/308Cal(7.82mm)/30%2006%20Springfield%20pages%20263%20to%20267.pdf

Might not be every mold that you want to see, but it seems WAY better than waiting for Lyman to provide data for 5744.

NVcurmudgeon
02-04-2006, 02:56 PM
I just received Midway's latest big catalogue yesterday. In the section where loading manuals are listed, Midway has printed the publication date of all of them. That may shake a few updates out of the woods!

MTWeatherman
02-04-2006, 03:58 PM
NVC:
I'm in solid agreement with you. All tend to be bad in the update department. In general, I think the powder manufactures do a better job and most of that data is free online. I think Lyman's Cast Bullet #3 is a particularly inexcusable publication from a company with a vested interest in bullet casting. It would be different if the powder manufactures provided much data for cast bullets...they don't. I would agree that Hodgdon is one of the better ones...but cast bullet data is still limited.

There are a whole host of newer powders for which there is no data in Cast Bullet #3...and many that are now obsolete (bought any Alcan powder lately?). Some powder manufactures are largely ignored...Hodgdon for example...no data for H110 for .44 Mag...one of the more popularly used powders (AL-7 and AL-8 are there). The data for some cartridges is an absolute joke...the puny .32 Special loads minus pressure data comes to mind (better data was available in #1). In other cases, although not a big deal, I find their choice of alloys strange...Lyman #2 in a .223 but linotype in a .38 Special. No data for some popular newer calibers like the .40 S&W. Many of the articles in #3 are as current as ever...keep them but update where additional useful information can be added (like oven temps and times for other BHNs between ACWW and 32). Handbook #3 has been long overdue for a major overhaul. It should be updated at least every 10 years...25 years is far, far too long for a manual in current print.

omgb
02-04-2006, 08:22 PM
Try loading for the 45-90. Some folks have data, most don't. Pet Loads has some data but still, not a whole lot if you shoot a highwall or Sharps. Almost nobody has much dope on duplexing for the 2.4". 32-20 data is always lawyered up. They also stick to a few of the old standards. I would love to see some presure testing in the 32-20 using Clays. It's a much cleaner powder than Unique, is more consistant than 2400 and dense enough that it can all fit into the case but not so dense as to be easily double charged without being able to notice it. BTW. if anyone has a good duplexed BP load for the 45-70 or 45-90 I'd like to see it.

$R J Talley

Idaho Sharpshooter
02-05-2006, 02:16 PM
Gee, you guys are still at the stage where you use reloading manuals for anything except a place to start...? If even for that...? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, pretend their is NO data and work using basic burning rate and relative quickness charts. Explore new ground, make data history.

what a concept...

Rich

NVcurmudgeon
02-05-2006, 07:27 PM
Idaho Sharpshooter, certainly with cast boolits I use burning rates and have done some pioneering work. I agree with you. When my father-in-law passed I inherited his powder stash. Some of it was old powders with no data available. Proceeding carefully it was no trouble to work up good loads. (If you have a .30/06 and a .45/70 you can shoot anything.) In the full power jacketed area I like having a little more information to go on, so I try to keep reasonably current. I don't buy every new book that comes out, but enough to keep up with latest developments.