Scope vs. Red dot vs. Holosight ? # 2

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well after the input of you all my original thoughts on optics for my 2 Redhawks, my choice has broadened.
What started out as a scope search, has changed into a much broader field of optical sights.
So on the red dots, what do you all think of the Bushnell 1x30 trophy w/ the 4 rectical option?
I believe Millet & Aimpoint also have 4 rectical modes are they any good?
I was much impressed about the comments on the red dots being better for hunting & not affecting the gun balance as much as a scope.
The next step in compactness & balance preserving might be a HOLOSIGHT.
Has anyone had any experence with the Bushnell, EOTEC, or A1OPTIC HOLOSIGHTS?
Also the holster issue is still a matter I am looking for input on.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR INPUT.

[trappst]

I've got a Holosight on my Ruger SRH 454. After breaking an old Bushnell Trophy, I found the holosight for next to nothing on another forum.

It's held up to full power 300g j-word loads. It's mounted on a Weigand base and works great. Mine's an older model that's powered by two "N" batteries and it only has the small dot.....no larger outer ring. Sighting in was a breeze and it hasn't budged since.

Great for hunting but the small dot can be hard to see in very bright sunlight. I think the newer models may be better? However, that small dot makes for easy sighting at the bench if you use the proper size target to hold on. Also take into account that batteries do go dead....and Murphy will kick in! I always have an extra set of batteries while hunting. I've also read heavy recoil can be very hard on "bargain" batteries. Get the good stuff!

I do know of one guy that uses a dot sight on his Freedom Arms 454. I don't recall the make but it doesn't use batteries at all. It gathers light and even adjusts to the lighting conditions. C-More maybe?

:mrgreen:

[jh45gun]

I Have one of those Bushnell Trophy red dot 4 reticle sights on my 22 pistol and I like it. Nice thing is it comes with a filter and a sunscreen so even in bright sun light you can see the dot well. Not all Dot sights have that.

[Linstrum]

I have a BSA RD30 red dot sight that I like because it is quite compact compared to a traditional scope with cross-hairs. It has adjustable brightness for the red dot and coated optics to reduce transmitted light loss from reflection and glare.


rl516

[44man]

It depends on recoil. I have Bushnell red dots, Tasco's and Millet's. Some of my revolvers have pulled the glass out of the front. I have shredded scopes. I called Bushnell about the Holosight and was told it would not take my recoil.
I called Magnum Research and was told the Ultra Dot is the only one they will use so I bought a few. Zero problems with thousands and thousands of heavy loads so they are the only ones I recommend.
Even my .44 has ruined some of the cheaper red dots. One might hold up but the next will lose the front glass. The cheap Chinese glue they put them in with sucks. The metal is not rolled over to hold the glass. I have repaired a few with Steel Bed.

[Paul105]

This makes a real compact setup. Pict from FA Website. The Trijicon and JPoint Specs are exactly the same and are supposed to be able to take "BIG" gun recoil. The JPoint is avail and is less expensive

http://midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=814846.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/Paul105_photo/FAReddot.jpg

I fooled around with the JPoint (4 Min dot) on a FA97 .357 for a while. It worked great and if I mostly shot from a rest, I would have left it on.

FWIW,

Paul

[bobthenailer]

been useing red dot since they came out! had almost every brand at one time or another , currently have over 25. i would shy away from multipul dot sizes or patterns just someting else to break on heavy recoling guns also not all brands track the same when changing dot sizes , you can ck this useing a commulator

[fecmech]

My vote would go to the Ultra dot also. I have one riding the slide on my .45 auto which is not a heavy recoiling gun but the slide stopping and starting with each shot gives it a pretty good jolt each way. It's been on there a few years now and more than 5-6K rounds.
As far as J points go factory service is excellent but I gave up after 3 tries with one on my Browning Hipower 9mm. The lenses came loose.

[Three44s]

I own two Bushnel Holosights ....... both "n" battery models .... one with the single dot and the other with the standard dot and circle.

The standard is quicker to find but for my eye ... the single dot is less distracting for accuracy.

I LIKE the holosights ....... very much. They have resided on two of my .44 mag Ruger DA's and never has anything broke on them.

As to the Bushy's ........ if I had it all to do over again ...... I would absolutely go with the AA battery models ....... more bucks ..... a tad bigger sight ...... but MUCH better battery life and accessibility for replacements.

But I have also shot the old Tasco Optima sight ...... and from what I have read ... the JP micro is a copy ............

There is MUCH good to be said about the JP Micro ......... much smaller and lighter ........

But two features that I long for in the Bushy's that are in the JP .......... is auto off with the covering of the sight .... supplied cover ...... and the auto brightness control.

For field useage ....... the smaller size, auto off with a cover ....... AND auto brightness control ...... are in my opinion ....... KILLER FEATURES!!!

One thing about holosights in general ............

IF you go this route ........ sight the gun in ........ and shoot it the same ........... one eyed or two eyed ........ stick to this as it can change your point of impact.

Can a holosight shoot accurately? YES! On my Ruger Redhawk ...... my single dot holosight ....... I can shoot with regularity ....... golf balls at 35 yds.

And these sights are great on shorter range rifles and certainly shotguns ..........

SIMPLY PUT ...... I can't own enough of these sort of sights.

Hope you enjoy yours .........

Three 44s

[Frank]

Hi, new poster here.

My Ultradot 'Match Dot' failed after only 80 rounds! It was working really good for a while on my new BFR in .475 Linbaugh. Then the light went out. It works on the other settings, but on the highest setting, it just flickers and goes out now. Brand new dot. I thought these sights are supposed to really take the punishment. So what do you think happened?

[44man]

Hi, new poster here.

My Ultradot 'Match Dot' failed after only 80 rounds! It was working really good for a while on my new BFR in .475 Linbaugh. Then the light went out. It works on the other settings, but on the highest setting, it just flickers and goes out now. Brand new dot. I thought these sights are supposed to really take the punishment. So what do you think happened?
I think you have a switch problem. Screws do come loose but call Ultra Dot and they will tell you where to send it for repair. You have a bad contact in the switch, most likely the screws came loose in the switch.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I was finally able to got back to read this today.
I think I will start with BURRIS holo sight(fastfire ll )on the 357 REDHAWK & see how it works. The limited 1yr. warranty does worry me though.
If it survives I will put one on the 44, but probably another brand with a better warranty.
Please offer advice on mounts & other holo sights as this is still a work in progress, & I am getting a great deal on the BURRIS (70%) off, so that is why i chose it.

[Dale53]

My Ruger Red Hawk is a .44 Magnum. I use the Ruger supplied rings with no problems with my Leupold Scope. My S&W Model 29 has a Burris Scope (I am an equal opportunity employer:mrgreen:).

If your Ruger barrel is cut for the Ruger Rings, just use them. If not, then maybe a look at Weigand mounts would help you.

I have several S&W revolvers with various Red Dots and use a stainless steel rail sold by CDNN with their aluminum rings with GREAT satisfaction:

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/sw.html

However, that will not fit your Ruger. Weigand has the answer:

http://www.jackweigand.com/Ruger-Redhawk-Scope-Mounts-No-Drill.html

Dale53

[44man]

Hi, new poster here.

My Ultradot 'Match Dot' failed after only 80 rounds! It was working really good for a while on my new BFR in .475 Linbaugh. Then the light went out. It works on the other settings, but on the highest setting, it just flickers and goes out now. Brand new dot. I thought these sights are supposed to really take the punishment. So what do you think happened?
I was shooting my friends SRH, .454 yesterday and the light started that on all settings. I spun the switch a bunch trying to clean the contacts but it didn't work.
Then I tapped on the switch with my finger and it started working. It was just the battery not making contact.
You might try removing the battery and cleaning it and the contacts with an eraser.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The Burris holosight arrived today W/ mount for $99.
Will mount it on 357 Redhawk.
When I get done with my spring break WW smelting.
If it works out OK I will do my new accuracy test loads for the 357 using 2400, WC820, & Russian Unique.
IF THE HOLOSIGHT SURVIVES THAT, I WILL LOOK FOR ONE FOR THE 44 REDHAWK.

Any more input You all have is very welcome.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
What is the warrenty on the JP HOLO SIGHT?

[Frank]

Ultradot sent me back my Matchdot after I sent it in under warranty. I got it back in 3-4 weeks no hassle. So Ultradot is A-OK in my book. I did some research on Ultadots. What I was amazed with is people actual mount them ON THE SLIDE of some handguns. Wow. It must be pretty tough to be able to handle the cycling of a slide. I don't know what other scopes or red dots would allow for that.

[Dale53]

It must be pretty tough to be able to handle the cycling of a slide

I thought so, also. However, when I was at the NRA Convention, last year, I had a chance to talk with the Simmons Technicians. They told me that the .45 ACP slide only puts about 500 "G's" on a Red Dot. However, some handguns (.454 Casull and up) can put up to 2200 "G's" on a Red Dot Sight. That is near unbelievable. They stated that the Simmons is good up to and including the .44 magnum but NO .454's and above and that the .45 Slide was "nothing", even with hardball.

I considered that good advice and now gives me a good bit of appreciation what our Red Dot manufacturers face. 2200 "G's" - now, THAT is awesome!:drinks:

Dale53

[Frank]

They told me that the .45 ACP slide only puts about 500 "G's" on a Red Dot. However, some handguns (.454 Casull and up) can put up to 2200 "G's" on a Red Dot Sight. That is near unbelievable. They stated that the Simmons is good up to and including the .44 magnum but NO .454's and above and that the .45 Slide was "nothing", even with hardball.

I considered that good advice and now gives me a good bit of appreciation what our Red Dot manufacturers face. 2200 "G's" - now, THAT is awesome!:drinks:

That's too bad because like their crosshair style better than a 4 moa dot. :coffee:

[Dale53]

Frank;
After I talked to Simmons, I bought four of their 30 mm Red Dots. I have been VERY happy with them but will not be putting them on my .454's. I reserve my Ultra Dots for the "heavy hitters".

I bought my Simmons at close-out prices for a VERY low price. Frankly, I have a half dozen Bushnell Red Dots (1") on a like number of revolvers and have been happy with them all - but they have NOT been "heavy hitters" and I am NOT going to tempt fate. No need to.

I DO prefer 30mm sights as they are somewhat easier to "find the hole". However, the lighter, smaller, 1" variety are actually better suited to the smaller handguns (I even have one on an SP101). My pistol smith, who drilled and tapped the Ruger SP101 (.32 H&R Magnum) raised his eyebrows. I told him that I could see with them and had extreme difficulty with iron sights these days and it was either a Red Dot or nothing. I'll eventually get around to making a composite holster for the Ruger (before next "wabbit" season) and that extra bulk of the red dot will no longer be even a minor irritation.

Dale53

[Boerrancher]

I don't remember off hand what brand it is other than it is a cheapo. I tossed an extra short scope with illuminated crosshairs on my Redhawk, because the 4 MOA red dot was driving me insane when shooting it off the bench. I have not had any issues with the el cheapo scope yet and the read cross hairs work well for a quick point and shoot just like the red dot, but are quite refined for shooting off the bench. If I was going to put optics on any of my other hand guns it would be a scope with light up cross hairs.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Frank]

Simmons looks like a fine company. I just don't like their warranty. A technician "decides" what's covered and what's not. Bushnell's crap too. Sometimes they have "no warranty" or "2-year", always somebody out there to nickle and dime you. If it's a red dot, I'd go Ultradot. And if a scope is desired, I'd go 2X Leupold. I'd forget the rest. Flame on. :Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

why dont you guys just go with an aimpoint. i dont put optics on revolvers but if i was going to put a dot on a revolver it would be an aimpoint micro. there built like a tank and the batterys last over 10 years if left on!

[Dale53]

Lloyd;
The answer is simple. One aimpoint costs what I paid for my nearly one dozen Red Dot Sights. Otherwise, I would be all over a dozen Aimpoints.

Dale53

[Frank]

why dont you guys just go with an aimpoint. i dont put optics on revolvers but if i was going to put a dot on a revolver it would be an aimpoint micro. there built like a tank and the batterys last over 10 years if left on!


Warranty

[shotman]

10 years but at $500 to $800 they should be good

[Frank]

should be good

Yeah, most of the stuff made in China's holding up pretty good. I'd do it if they gave me a share of stock in the company.

[GSPKurt]

I use an Ultra-Dot Pan-A-V with a Weigand base on my SRH .454 Casull. No issues.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj156/GSPKurt/SRH1.jpg

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a 5 year old comp 2 that i broke the flip up lense cover on last month and they waranteed that, as a matter of fact they sent me a new one without even seeing the broken one so im guessing there warantee is pretty dammed good. Another way ill go is ive had quite a few cheap tasco and bushnell dot sights and they all gave up the ghost. i have three aimpoints the newest one is a 3 year old unit and i have NEVER had one iota of problem with them othe then that lense cover breaking. My m2s are advertised as having a one year battery life left on. I left one on the lowest setting that can be easily used in bright sunlight and it lasted almost 2 years. the new models last 10 years. Now when you factor the cost of the aimpoint do you figure all the batterys you will have to buy for the others and the running you will do to get them. A game animal that was lost because you forgot to turn it on or forgot to turn it off the last time you used it or even with some models the unit shutting down at an unopertune time because they time off to save on batterys. Or one that failed in the field due to recoil. I think in redots the old saying you get what you pay for is even more important then in scope. Most cheap scopes these days at least dont fail. One of my aimpoints is used on my bedroom ar and i leave it on all the time and every new years swap the batterys. the other two i leave off in the safe and ive still got the original batterys in them. to me the only thing better is an acog but they dont fit well on a handgun.
10 years but at $500 to $800 they should be good

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
What you said about the AIMPOINT is very interesting Lloyd. So far I have never regretted going W/ quality.
I can't afford the most expensive brands, but Leupold, Baush & Lome quality is possible if I save my pennies for a while. And they are hard to beat.
So IF Aimpoint is in their class & better than the Burris one, I will start saving every thing I can.

[Lloyd Smale]

Aimpoint is the class act of the redots. At least there high end ones like the M series. Aimpoint had a vidio on youtube where they were taking a comp 3 and one of there mini dots and taking them off of an AR skipping them back and forth of a paved parking lot and putting them back on without even loosing zero. I sure dont know of any other optic that would take that abuse. they looked like they were drug behind a truck when they were done. What i really like about them more then anything is the battery life though. They can be left on all the time. My two are m2s and they have the worse battery life of all of them at over a year. the newest ones last 8-10 years and thats battery life with them left on at a high setting. What i do with mine is jan 1 when i change my smoke alarms i change batterys in the aimpoints. Never have had one after that year that even was close to getting week. If your the type that never forgets to turn your cheaper one off your a better man then me.
HI
What you said about the AIMPOINT is very interesting Lloyd. So far I have never regretted going W/ quality.
I can't afford the most expensive brands, but Leupold, Baush & Lome quality is possible if I save my pennies for a while. And they are hard to beat.
So IF Aimpoint is in their class & better than the Burris one, I will start saving every thing I can.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
44man & Lloyd,
What are the ultra dot & aimpoint warrenties like?
Which Holo sight in these 2 brands would you recomend?

[Lloyd Smale]

aimpoint seems to have a sort of unwritten lifetime warantee. Simular to rugers policy.
HI,
44man & Lloyd,
What are the ultra dot & aimpoint warrenties like?
Which Holo sight in these 2 brands would you recomend?

[lawboy]

I have several brands and styles. My most recent purchase was this JPoint that I used for the first time today. Mounted it on a Springfield Longslide in 45ACP. It performed flawlessly.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd221/behightower/jpoint002.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd221/behightower/jpoint003.jpg

[BOOM BOOM]

HI ,
SAT. GOT TO RANGE YEAH!
Got to shoot the 357 Redhawk w/ Holosight.
I know I am crazy but I shot 12 shot groups.
The current fad in the gun mags of 3 shot of 5 shot groups is not resonable to me as I think you must shoot rounds in all cylinders to see what a revolver likes.
Unfortunatlly only got 25yd & 50yrd groups w/ J-bullets fired before they closed the range. But they were the best groups I ever got except for my old S&W model 27 with midrange loads.
These were book max loads for hunting tried 125 speer jhp, 146 speer jhp, 160 speer hjswc, & Fed. Am. E. 158 jswc as a control group.

[Russel Nash]

I have to wonder what kind of abuse a C-more red dot would take from a .44 Magnum or a .454 ??

Here is their website:

http://www.cmore.com/

They are the most popular red dot sight used by USPSA/IPSC competitors (for the Open division).

At about $250, yeah, they aren't cheap.

There is a red dot out there that is similar. It is made by ATN. It is only about 90 bucks. It has different reticle settings. Circle dot. Crosshairs. Just plain dot. Circle with crosshairs.

I am pretty sure it is made in China.

The C-more, I am ASSuming, is made here in the States.

They do make a C-more with an all aluminum body too.

[winelover]

My preference is the original Armson OEG. No batteries or rheostats to fool with! No switches to remember to turn on or off!! Fully automatic ambient light compensation for little more than a C-note!!! The tritium element lasts a minimum of 10 years!!! I like them so well I have six of them with zero failure rate!!!! I have one on my 44 Redhawk as well as my wife's 45 LC BH. Each of our compound bows has them in Bracklynn mounts. Another is mounted on a 12guage Rem 1100 slug barrel and last but not least I have a compact model with built in 22 rail mount on a Ruger Mk II target. Last year I sent most of them back for replacement of the element @ about $31 each and some were over 12 years old and still functioning although at a dim level. They are probably discontinued ( I havn't checked SWFA ) but still available on the used market. Trijicon didn't build them, but imported them from South Africa where they were built for the military, which explains why they are so durable. The only downside is they do require creative mounting because of the short distance between the bell housings but it is doable. By the way, Trijicon's conventional riflescopes are second to none and I have no affiliation with them.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI.
Well got to range on Sat. after I finished teaching my BYU clubs jujitsu class.
Shot the 1st cast bullet series with the Ruger Redhawk 357, equipped w/ the Burris Fast fire II holo sight. 12 shot groups, Better groups than I have ever shot before.
Not in 44 man's league yet . Most shots of all test loads were in 2". Best one had 6 in 1 " at 25 yds. They are shooting about as good as the jacked bullets groups from last Sat.
None of the loads showed any over pressure signs.
Got a real good break on the Holo sight and am pleased w/ it so far.
Have to do the Russian Unique over again as they were the 1st shot at 25yds. & I put most of the into the dirt before I realized it.
Will shot 50yd. groups with the best 2400 & surplus WC820 next Sat.
Loads were all the Seaco 180gr. gc with home made lube ( axial grease & bees wax)
5 & 6 grs. Russian unique ... will try 6 & 7grs. next at 25yds.
10, 11, 12, 13grs WC820... will try 12, 12.5, & 13 grs at 50yds. (12grs. was best so far):Fire:
10,11, 12 & 13grs. of 2400...will try 13 grs. at 50yds.:Fire:

[Frank]

10, 11, 12, 13grs WC820... will try 12, 12.5, & 13 grs at 50yds. (12grs. was best so far)
10,11, 12 & 13grs. of 2400...will try 13 grs. at 50yds.

Good work, Boom, Boom. Keep doing that jujitsu on those targets. Look forward to hearing about your next range report. :Fire::Fire:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
Smallest groups at 50yds.were:
Russian Unique 7grs.
This is 1 gr. hotter than is suggested in any book for a bullet of 180grs. with normal unique.
WC 820 best was 12grs. a hotter load but not max in a Redhawk.
2400 best was 13.5 again a hotter load.
The Redhawk likes em hot.
I lucked out because so do I.

[BOOM BOOM]

hi,
the discovery was a Aimpoint red dot that is VerySmall.
very interesting

[Frank]

Boom Boom, that's great. Saeco bullet with axle grease lube, 3 different powders and you're shooting at 50 yds with an Aimpoint. And you do all that after showing students how to flip people over their shoulder. :smile: Sounds like dedication to me. Maybe you should be called "357man".

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
Actually Boom Boom is a better fit.
Don't get the impression that I only shoot 357's, I'll shoot almost anything given the chance.
The current work w/ the 357 Redhawk is because it was just bought last
summer. And as it is now been worked over to make all cylinders/Throats the same I am redoing its loads.
I have a Burris Holosight on it, as my eyes even after cataract surgery suck. Was going to scope it for the tests but asked the question that started this thread.
Was convinced that a scope was not the best option as I want to be able to hunt with all my guns.
Also a scope is bulky & wanted all guns to be usable in self defense situations.
I have a 44 Redhawk it is next pistol to be upgraded as soon as I can save the money up ( the Gunsmithing is already done on it).
Got the Burris Holosight on a trade in of an old rifle scope for only $99. And was assured it would stand up to my 44 loads.
1.Due to the advice here.
2.Also it appears the military has gone to Holosights on combat fire arms,
3.and the combat shooters have them on their guns.
I love the 44mag. and all my loads are orientated towards hunting/self defense they are hot. I have been blessed in that all my rifles & pistols shoot tighter W/ ether book max or near max loads. So they are loud.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi again,
I teach Karate on Tues. & Thurs.
On Wed. & Sat. I teach Ju-jitsu at the local collage.
keeps the fat off by playing W/ the 18-25 yr. olds.
Gotta have a back up if the great tragedy should occur.

[Frank]

hi,
the discovery was a Aimpoint red dot that is VerySmall.
very interesting

What aimpoint?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Aimpoint models Micro R-1, Micro H-1, & Micro T-1 are 2.4" long 1.6" h by 1.6" w.
This is about the size of the holosights.

[Frank]

4 moa though. I thought you meant the red dot was small. I like a small dot for target work.

[Three44s]

My bushy holosights and my .44 mag Redhawk sing beautiful music together ..........

Three 44s

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The Ultradot Pan AV at $169, & the Ultradot L/T at $229 Are also leading contenders to ride my 44.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
It means if you run out of ammo.
I decided I am buying the Ultradot Pan A-V. Thanks for the advice.
It made a difference as I was originally going to get the Burris 2-7 w/ drop compensator.
I will be happier with the holosight I think. As it is so compact.

[GSSP]

Boom Boom,

Did I see BYU as in "blue Zoomie"? I'm a Zoomie. Live about 10 miles south hear Hobble Creek.

Alan

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,

Yes, I think you mean Zoobie, or a BYU student/grad.
I live in Provo.
LEFTEYE lives in Lehi.

[BOOM BOOM]

hi,
Been shooting it for 1,000 rounds now & it is holding up. It sure shows all my hands wiggles /squiggles & tremors boy I am lucky to hit anything!
I use to think I was pretty steady But not anymore.

[Frank]

That's great. Put it on some bags and see what it can do. I like that sight, it's small and has a 2 moa dot. I was concerned that the dot wouldn't be as visible as the tube style red dot on a sunny day. Do you need to keep it at the highest setting during midday with the Pan V?

[BOOM BOOM]

YEAH,
The ULTRA DOT PAN AV arrived today so I can start to work with it on the 44 Redhawk as soon as it is mounted.

[Frank]

Just make sure you hold it steady on bags. And use a good load for the test. Otherwise, you'll never know if the dot is loose. :Fire:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
As soon as I get it mounted I intend to do a com pleat new work up for accuracy loads both w/ 2 Pb bullets & with 2 j-bullets. As the 44 has also been to Rasmussen's accuracy clinic.
I will using the Lee 310 gr gc & the Lyman 250 gr gc & the Speer 225 & 240 gr HJHP.:Fire:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Have no problem seeing the red dot even in the brightest sunlight with ether the Burris or the aim point. Very bright. Have the Aim point mounted, sighted it in over sand bags.
Have shot the 357 Redhawk W/ the Burris & worked up accuracy loads W/ a borrowed Caldwell machine pistol rest. So the 44 Redhawk is next.
I like the Aim point better because of the cross hair setting & bigger field of view even though it is more than 2X's bigger than the Burris.

[Frank]

Looks like the Matchdot's holding up good.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
WOW good shooting, Now there is a hand cannon , a guy at the Provo range had one a few years ago offered folks a chance to shoot it, but had no takers until I drove up. If you know me , I'll shoot almost anything given a chance , at least once.

Have to admit to S&W 50 is too much for me , OUCH.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Just got the little allen wrench & little windage/elevation locking screw from Aimpoint today so tomorrow I can AT LAST start the new accuracy test loads for my 44 Redhawk.

[Frank]

Boom Boom says


Yea, get to shoot the 44mag. Just got the little allen wrench & little windage/elevation locking screw from Aimpoint today so tomorrow I can AT LAST start the new accuracy test loads for my 44 Redhawk.

We're anxious for your report. Load details, and a pic, preferably from the back of the Aimpoint. Would love to see that reticle. I know that's asking alot, but it sure would be nice. :lol:

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
Spent 4-5hrs. at the Official (pay) Provo Shooting range so I could use a solid bench & a Caldwell machine pistol rest.
Shot some jacketed factory & hand loads.
Started at 25 yds.
BEST GROUP-The big surprise to me was the Remington 180 gr. JSP bullets got the smallest group.1 RAGGED HOLE-11 of 12 shots in 2 &1/2", !2 of 12 in 3"
2nd best was Federal American Eagle 240 gr. JSP w/ 9 OF 12 IN 2 & 1/2" , 11 of 12 in 3" with 1 outlier at 4" from group center. Possibly my fault.
The 2 hand loads Both w/ CCI LPP primer in W-W cases did not do as well.
22grs of 2400 Speer 225 gr. JHP got 8 of 12 in 2 &1/2"
11 grs Unique Speer 225 gr. JHP got 8 of 12 in 2 & 1/2"circle.
Moved to 50 yds.
The 180gr Remington loads fell apart. Center of group was 7" lower, w/ 5 of 12 in 2 & 1/2", & only 7 of 12 in 3"
The Federal 240 gr. shot 7" high, w/ 7 of 12 in 2 & 1/2", 9 of 12 in 3", the rest were fliers possibly my fault in trying to adjust/aline the rest.
The 225 gr. JHP Speer hand loads both got 6 of 12 in 2 & 1/2" , and 9 of 12 in 3".
At 100Yds. I could barely keep all 12 shots of all loads on a 11" X 17" paper. I am sure this is my fault not the loads, I might have done better w/ a scope of 7X or 9X.
I was definitely hoping for much better results.:confused:

[44man]

Hi,
Spent 4-5hrs. at the Official (pay) Provo Shooting range so I could use a solid bench & a Caldwell machine pistol rest.
Shot some jacketed factory & hand loads.
Started at 25 yds.
BEST GROUP-The big surprise to me was the Remington 180 gr. JSP bullets got the smallest group.1 RAGGED HOLE-11 of 12 shots in 2 &1/2", !2 of 12 in 3"
2nd best was Federal American Eagle 240 gr. JSP w/ 9 OF 12 IN 2 & 1/2" , 11 of 12 in 3" with 1 outlier at 4" from group center. Possibly my fault.
The 2 hand loads Both w/ CCI LPP primer in W-W cases did not do as well.
22grs of 2400 Speer 225 gr. JHP got 8 of 12 in 2 &1/2"
11 grs Unique Speer 225 gr. JHP got 8 of 12 in 2 & 1/2"circle.
Moved to 50 yds.
The 180gr Remington loads fell apart. Center of group was 7" lower, w/ 5 of 12 in 2 & 1/2", & only 7 of 12 in 3"
The Federal 240 gr. shot 7" high, w/ 7 of 12 in 2 & 1/2", 9 of 12 in 3", the rest were fliers possibly my fault in trying to adjust/aline the rest.
The 225 gr. JHP Speer hand loads both got 6 of 12 in 2 & 1/2" , and 9 of 12 in 3".
At 100Yds. I could barely keep all 12 shots of all loads on a 11" X 17" paper. I am sure this is my fault not the loads, I might have done better w/ a scope of 7X or 9X.
I was definitely hoping for much better results.:confused:
No surprise, factory loads and bullets too light. The .44 just starts to come on with 240 gr bullets and the XTP is the most accurate. The Redhawk loves H110 and Fed 150 primers, 23 to 24 gr with 240 XTP's.
Move up in bullet weight slowly to around 320 gr, I think you will see improvement around 265 gr.
The Lee 310 should shoot with 21.5 gr of H110 and a 150 primer. Maybe 22 gr would be better with the powder if it is still a little slower then 296.
We out shoot all of those mechanical rests just with sandbags and even beat them off hand at 100 yards.
I would expect the Redhawk to get 1" at 50 yards with the right load but it is a harder gun to get to shoot then a SBH or SRH.
Make the Lee hard, I would not even bother until you have around 18 BHn and up, maxed out around 28-30 BHN.
Light bullets are a joke in the .44! [smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Thank you so much for the advise. I started with what I had on hand.
I always felt the 180gr. was light. They were a Xmas gift from the kids,
was Impressed with their 25yd. group though.
Had thought the 225gr, was a good bullet in the 1970's(medium wt.) & a good deer killer. Unfortunately I have about 600 of them. I guess now days it is considered a light wt.
In the 1970's I felt the 240gr.JHP & 250gr. Kieth gc. were heavy bullets suitable for elk. Have about 200 of the 240gr. & 1,000's of the cast 250gr. The they have been deadly on deer W/ 5 one shot kills.
I really would like to get the 250 to work in this gun.
I will take your advice & focus on the 310gr. Lee which I now have a mold for, I wounder if the Lyman 4 cavity mold could be modified by some one inexpensively, to a good 265gr. dropping a .432 bullet.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well here are the 1st results. After 5 hrs. on the range.
Decided to try the Lyman 250 gr. gc Kieth style SWC without a gc. at 25yds. Ist home made lube (Spitpatch BP MIXED W/RCBS HARD LUBE).
1) Using WC820 best group was 19.6 grs. 9 of 10 shots in 2".
2) Using 700X best group was 6.5grs 7 of10 in 2",9 of 10 in 2 71/2".

Then with same bullet with a gc. & beagled mold W/1 layer of 3M heat tape, using Axel grease mixed w/ Beeswax lube. 25 yds.
1) Using WC820 best group 21grs. 9 of 10 in 2 &1/2", 7 of 10 in 2".
2) using Russian Unique best group 13grs. 9 of 10 in 2 & 1/2", 7 of 10 in 2".

Then same bullet with a gc & beagled mold with 2 layers of 3M tape W/ Axel grease mix Lube. 25 yds.
1) Using WC820 best group 20grs. 8 of 10 in 2 &1/2", 7 of 10 in 2".
2)Using Russian Unique best group 13 grs. 9 of 10 in 2 &1/2", 8 of 10 in 2".

Then tried the 310gr. gc Lee could not even get a decent sight in group as machine rest shifted 4"+ on each shot even with 330lbs of wt. on the rest. So would have to take wt. off try to realine on bull & put wt. back on hoping process would not shift point of aim (good luck).:violin:
I was pretty tired by this time & still had to teach the BYU collage Jujitsu class.
So gave up & will try to do the 310's hand held off of sandbags. I usually can not hold as tight a group as the machine rest, so hope it works out.

[Frank]

each shot even with 330lbs of wt. on the rest
It's no wonder you are so tired. :shock:

[44man]

Hey Boom Boom, ever think the goofy lubes might be part of the problem? :kidding::kidding:

[leftiye]

Hey, He's getting better. Used to be bacon grease or hamburger grease.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Went up to sight in over sandbags with 250gr. bullets in the 44. After about 25 rounds & no consistency I noticed the rear of the B-square scope mount was loose.I found the rear screw had it's lower threads totally stripped off. CRAP!!!
So as I had the 357 w/ same mounting system & had been having recent accuracy problems w/ it as well I took off the holosight & found that the rear screw on the mounts base was backing out. CRAP!!!
So tonight I took the mount off 44, & that project will have to go on the back burner till I get a new screw. If that does not fix problem I will have to go to a stronger mounting system.
The 357 just got LOCK TIGHT put on the rear screw, & the FAST FIRE holosight put back on.

[44man]

There is a LOT of stress on bases and is why I don't like some of them. Weigand makes one of the best and it is worth drilling and tapping the gun.
But even my BFR base would not hold tight on my .475 so I gave up and steel bedded the base to the gun and epoxied the screws in. I now have a one piece gun and base. :bigsmyl2:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
What do you mean weird lubes?
IFIRC Dep. Al once said he thought melted crayons would work as a pistol bullet lube.
For that matter what do you think the original bullet lubes were?
Pioneers probably used any kind of grease they had on hand. So I'm just being a traditionalist.:p

[leftiye]

Bummer, Boomer! Make sure the threads in the gun's frame are still there and in good shape first. Then see if you can find a better grade screw to use ( call Brownell's tech dept. to see what they might have). While you're at it get the longest screws that might fit (they can be shortened) to use all of the threads in the frame. Lock Tite the screws when you re-assemble.

The fact that porcupine fat has been used doesn't qualify it as a lube. Use the best thang y'all can find (do a little studying to answer that). Otherwise all of your work is probably going down the drain in that one breath (right there).

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
Actually I was going to try to find the makings for FELIX's WORLD FAMOUS WONDER LUBE for my next batch or try to buy some of lar45's lube but have not figured out how to order it off his site.

[Dale53]

I just received an order of bulk Carnauba Red from them. You just open the site and click on the picture of the lube - the order page comes right up:

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/order.html

I paid by PayPal and got the order just a few days later.

I normally get their lube in zip lock bags (it is significantly cheaper) and order a rather large quantity to minimize the "damage" from shipping. It is GREAT stuff. Less smoke than NRA 50/50, shoots just as well (under 1" with both target AND magnum loads) and when it sets up is not nearly so sticky as 50/50. I also has a higher melting point for those hot days afield (when you leave loaded ammo in a hot trunk, etc). Yes, I have had "duds" when 50/50 has overheated and ruined the primer and powder under extreme conditons.

It does require heat in the sizer in my a/c basement, but that is not a problem to me.

Dale53

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Thanks for the link, I actually got it to work!!!!!!
How does BAC work through a Lyman lube/sizer ( not heated)?
How does 2500+ work through a old 1970's style lube /sizer that does not have a heat source.
Is this stuff equal to or better than the old alox 50/50?
How does it compare to the newer Moly Lyman lube?

[leftiye]

If'n y'all don't wanna use heat, try mixin' the C-Red 6 to1 with Bullplate lube (by weight). Seems to work well for me. May not be any better than BAC, but I haven't tried BAC.

[JesterGrin_1]

What do you all think of the Match Dot ? http://www.ultradotwest.com/ultradot_2008_005.htm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/ultradot_match_dot_img6.jpg
To go on this in .44 Mag?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/RugerHunter.jpg

[Dale53]

I have three different kinds of Red Dot sights in operation as we speak. The ULtra Dots are what is on my "Heavy Hitters" (.454 Casull, etc). Ultra Dot has the best reputation of just about all of the Red Dots for reliability with heavy recoiling revolvers.

One thing you DO want to check. Make sure that you can mount it on your revolver (there must be enough room between the rings to clear the turret on the red dot sight). You will want to straddle the turret with the rings for best and strongest mounting. I do NOT have your particular revolver so I cannot measure that distance. Measure the distance and call Ultra Dot and ask them. Otherwise, I would say that you have made an EXCELLENT choice.

Remember, you will need 30 mm rings. Most of these Red Dot sights ship with a set of rings, however, they are made to fit Weaver style bases so will not fit your revolver. Ask your supplier of the Red Dot if they can supply 30 mm rings to fit the Ruger mounts (Ruger can supply them, of course but normally ship with 1" rings).

Just a thought or two...

Dale

[Frank]

What about the Warne QR rings for the Blackhawk? That would be the ticket if you asked me. You can carry it in a holster, then when you need the long shot, you can put it on. Best of both worlds. :Fire::Fire:

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay 44Man and Myself put our mindless minds together lol and came up with what I feel is the best rout to go with. As I tend to hunt a bunch at night for HOG and you are NOT going to be able to see through a pistol scope at night. While the Ultradot MatchDot has a lighted dot of which is adjustable for size and brightness. So if I have a good outline I have a shot. Boom Boom lol.

So this is going to be the Rig the UltraDot Match Dot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/ultradot_match_dot_img6.jpg

Mounted with this to the Ruger. I had to go this rout as nobody makes 30 MM offset rings to mount the Match Dot as it has to have 2 1/8 between the rings to fit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/l_957000045_1.jpg

On top of this. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/RugerHunter.jpg

[JesterGrin_1]

BUMP :) Or has this thread been Beat down?

[Frank]

It'll be kind of tall. The Matchdot's rings are the tallest, plus the mount. Also, I think the mount has a cotter pin for a recoil lug which will scratch your receiver on the top. Using the factory style rings eliminates the above. The dot sight comes with an extension tube. [smilie=l:

[44man]

It'll be kind of tall. The Matchdot's rings are the tallest, plus the mount. Also, I think the mount has a cotter pin for a recoil lug which will scratch your receiver on the top. Using the factory style rings eliminates the above. The dot sight comes with an extension tube. [smilie=l:
No cotter pins on the Weigand base! It is a beautiful fit and is solid as a rock. That is the most perfect setup for the stupid Ruger ring spacing yet made. It does no harm to the gun.

[crabo]

No cotter pins on the Weigand base! It is a beautiful fit and is solid as a rock. That is the most perfect setup for the stupid Ruger ring spacing yet made. It does no harm to the gun.

I really like the Weigand bases. I have it on my S&Ws. I put one on my 44 PC gun because it feels more balanced than on the barrel.

[JesterGrin_1]

I went with the Weigand base of which I think is the best fit plus as Frank said it does not have all those doo dads lol. It will mount on the gun just as the factory rings would on the ruger. So yes it may raise the scope 1/4 of an inch over stock Ruger rings.

I thought about the B Square type but I have not read really anything good about them.

But I should find out sometime early this week. Crossing fingers lol. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

I really like the Weigand bases. I have it on my S&Ws. I put one on my 44 PC gun because it feels more balanced than on the barrel.

What DOT do you have on your Pistol Crabo?

[tackstrp]

I have a Aim Point the that i can move amont my four hand gunss Posted a pciture at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=60644. These can put put on any mag revolvel or semi auto. pre AIM office. Or if you have on laying around a 20 MM cannon

[Frank]

44man says
No cotter pins on the Weigand base!

Look at the pic. The holes on the top are where the cotter pins go. They substitute for the recoil lugs. I would rather have the full lug than a cotter pin. There will be marks from the pin when the mount is removed. Right? How can there not be? A smaller surface area having force acted on it. I'm sure it works and maybe "it's great", but it still has the pins. :Fire:

[JesterGrin_1]

Yes there are holes but for the Ruger in ? there is no need to put the pins in.

Look at the picture of my Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley again. Do you see those two half moon slots on the rib that is made into the barrel of the pistol? That is where the factory scope rings would mount. Thus the Weigand base will mount in the same way as the stock scope rings. So there is nothing else needed.

[Frank]

Do you see those two half moon slots on the rib that is made into the barrel of the pistol? That is where the factory scope rings would mount. Thus the Weigand base will mount in the same way as the stock scope rings. So there is nothing else needed.

Correct. So you are good to go. [smilie=l:

[JesterGrin_1]

Frank at times you worry me lol. :)

So how is the Ultra Dot Match Dot holding up on that tiny little BFR 45-70 ?

[44man]

44man says

Look at the pic. The holes on the top are where the cotter pins go. They substitute for the recoil lugs. I would rather have the full lug than a cotter pin. There will be marks from the pin when the mount is removed. Right? How can there not be? A smaller surface area having force acted on it. I'm sure it works and maybe "it's great", but it still has the pins. :Fire:
I put the same Weigand base on my SBH and there were no pins, the bottom had the same lugs as the Ruger rings.
I hope they have not changed them.
I have to wait for Jestergrin to tell us when he gets his.

[Dale53]

>>>I put the same Weigand base on my SBH and there were no pins, the bottom had the same lugs as the Ruger rings.<<<


THAT sounds more like Weigand. I'll be most interested to hear some more about these bases.

Dale53

[JesterGrin_1]

Do not worry when I have it in my hands I will be sure to give that information. :)

As I would like to keep the next person from going nuts with his Ruger to mount something. :)

[crabo]

What DOT do you have on your Pistol Crabo?

I've got the 30mm Ultradot with the four dot sizes.

The Ultra Dot Four features four dot sizes - 4,8,12 and 16 MOA @100 yards. Only 5.1 inches long and weighs just 4.8 oz. Click adjustable brightness control. Available in 30mm or 1" Tube Diameter. You may also choose between Black Matte and Silver Satin Finish.

http://www.ultradotwest.com/ultradot_2008_006.htm

I really like being able to adjust the size of the dots. I have used the larger size dots as a type of mil dot by placing the dot on top of the target and let the bullet fall into the target.

I also like using the small dot on long range targets and then go big for up close.

I was really looking forward to hunting the rushes in North Dakota with my 44 and a grunt call, but I didn't get picked in the lottery.

I plan on buying a couple more of these.

[JesterGrin_1]

I've got the 30mm Ultradot with the four dot sizes.

The Ultra Dot Four features four dot sizes - 4,8,12 and 16 MOA @100 yards. Only 5.1 inches long and weighs just 4.8 oz. Click adjustable brightness control. Available in 30mm or 1" Tube Diameter. You may also choose between Black Matte and Silver Satin Finish.

http://www.ultradotwest.com/ultradot_2008_006.htm

I really like being able to adjust the size of the dots. I have used the larger size dots as a type of mil dot by placing the dot on top of the target and let the bullet fall into the target.

I also like using the small dot on long range targets and then go big for up close.

I was really looking forward to hunting the rushes in North Dakota with my 44 and a grunt call, but I didn't get picked in the lottery.

I plan on buying a couple more of these.

Ok Yes I did look at the Ultra Dot 4 but the space needed is the same with the Ultra Dot 4 and the Match Dot. So I opted for the extra what $20.oo for the smaller dot of 2 for target work to find loads and goes 2,4,6,8 as I found those larger dots a bit LARGE lol.


And I must say I went back and forth between the 4 and the Match Dot many times but the Match Dot gave me more for little extra money and still required the same space to mount it on my Ruger.

And I have to say UltraDot West is the place to go. The price is what it is on the site with NO Shipping charges. Now that is nice. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeee Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww I got both the Match Dot and the Mount in today.

I will take pictures as I mount them to show what is there if you good people wish for me to do so?

Frank The Pins you were talking about are locating pins that fit in the recess on top of the Ruger barrel. The Ruger is designed to have these fit there. :)

But I will post pictures later to show all this. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

I will have pics up in a few minutes. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay here we go this is a pic of the base gun or what it started as.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0051-1.jpg

Next is the Mount and mounting screws. This shows the Top.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0054.jpg

And the bottom where it has the locating pins.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0056.jpg

Top of the Ruger Barrel where you can see the indentions in the top of the barrel where the locating pins will fit and on the side with the half moon cuts the screws and shaped washers fit to secure the mount.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0058.jpg

Match Dot with all parts that came with it. The sun screen is mounted as well as the shade part. Sorry do not know the exact names lol.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0063.jpg

And here is the Mount put on the Ruger both sides and top. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0062.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0060.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0059.jpg

[JesterGrin_1]

All mounted up with stock Grips.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0065.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0067.jpg

And while I was at it I got some Hogue Gunfighter Grips made of Black Ebony and mounted them. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0069.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0073.jpg

Sorry if the photo's are not great but it should get things across. :)

Hope you like it. :)

And yes I did make a Boo Boo lol. The sun shield and the filter are reversed lol. But that is corrected now thanks to 44Man lol. :)

[44man]

OK, it has been a few years but I seem to remember the pins. The base can be adjusted for windage so the lugs will not work. Those are roll pins.
Anyway here is how I mount mine. I don't use any filters because I want all the brightness I can get for hunting.
I put the extension on the front and put the little trim ring on it. These are made very tight and I put the front ring on the extension. I don't like a ring over any glass.
The 45-70 did not come with a base and were not offered free at the time so I made the base from aircraft aluminum.

[Dale53]

Everyone is focused on a particular Red Dot's ability to handle recoil - and it IS important. However, equally important, for a happy marriage of revolver and optical device (scope or red dot), is a proper base. This subject has been mentioned but could stand a bit of emphasizing.

I MUCH prefer a base that does NOT depend on "just screws in shear" to handle recoil. It is preferable for the mount to have a "positive" recoil lug to handle the recoil, long term, and NOT try to depend on screws in shear.

Small screws like the typical 6-48's have almost NO strength in shear due to the threads. Frankly, I consider 6-48 screws on heavy recoiling revolver mounts to be an invention of the devil. Adding more screws can be a real help but even better is using 8-40 screws - they have twice the shear strength. Then when you use a sufficient number of high strength screws they can work well.

"Back in the day" I mounted a Burris big dot scope (a Gil Hebard exclusive) on my 8 3/8" S*W Model 29. I bought a blank Kimber base (later became the Warne line of scope rings and bases). I had a local precision machinist mill the steel blank base to my specs and mount with 8-40 high strength screws. At the time, NO ONE made a proper scope mount and I wanted the scope mounted between the sights. Removing the scope in inclement weather gave me "already zeroed" iron sights when hunting. This has been a VERY satisfactory set up for more than 10,000 .44 magnum rounds and thirty years.

My Ruger Red Hawk came with a properly engineered scope set up right out of the box. The rib was notched for rings and recoil lugs were milled right in the rib (just like the Bisley Hunter of the OP). This also has been satisfactory for many years and many rounds of .44 magnums. A quick turn of the mount screw knobs and you can put your scope in your back pack and use the iron sights in case of scope failure OR inclement weather.

More recently, I bought a couple of S&W 625's (a 625-6 with 5" barrel and a 625-8 with 4" barrel). I bought a B-Square base from CDNN for a VERY reasonable $20.00 as I remember (they no longer show them on their web site). This base requires removal of the rear sight but cleverly uses the sight cut out on the frame as a positive recoil surface. It should work well with recoil that any "Heavy Hitter" will dish out:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QDalesRevolversandPistols-1720-1.jpg

If you look closely, you can see the additional stainless steel bracket that is pinned to the base and fits in the sight cut out - this will hold. The screws are just used to hold the base to the revolver - all recoil is taken by the sight cut out. Of course, the .45 ACP is NOT a "Heavy Hitter" in the sense of a .44 magnum or .454 Casull, but it also benefits from a reliable mount. This particular mount does NOT allow you to retain your iron sights but in this case the Red Dot is the only sight wanted. Shorter barrels can limit your choices but have other virtues.

A year or so, I was in my local gun shop and the owner, Gary, showed me a used (like NIB) Performance Center S&W "Light Hunter" in its aluminum case. A man had bought it, fired it less than a box of factory and decided it was more "fun" than he could stand. This has a well engineered scope mount that came with the package. The rib has a full width cut out. The gun is shipped with a precision base that mounts flush with the rib and is hardly noticeable for use with iron sights. If you scope it, you remove the blank base, and drop in a scope base machined to precisely mate with the rib cut out. Again, a VERY large recoil lug results with the screws merely holding the base to the rib - no shear forces are put on the screws. Further, you can remove the scope and you have pre-seroed iron sights when and if needed. See, even the factories GET IT!:mrgreen:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QDalesRevolversandPistols-1730.jpg

My general practice with all scoped revolvers (including Red Dots) is to satisfy myself that everything is mounted well (generally with a trip to the range). When satisfied that everything is good, then I remove and replace one screw at at time (to avoid shifting the base) with blue loc-tite. Blue will allow you to remove the base, if need be, without having to use a milling machine to do so. I carefully clean the threads in the revolver AND the base screws chemically (with denatured alcohol {you don't want your revolver to get drunk, do you?[smilie=1:}). Then I put a drop ONLY on the screw threads (and then often remove any excess by wicking with a torn edge of paper towel). You do NOT want to get any loc-tite between the screw head and base - that sometimes can not be broken free and often can only be removed by drilling out. That is MUCH better avoided by simply applying ONLY on the threads.

Use reasonable force when tightening the screws. My father was a high class tool maker and taught me at an early age to "feel" when the screw is properly tightened. If you have NOT learned the skill, then the use of an inch pound torque wrench is suggested and will keep you from twisting small screws off.

A proper scope base, properly installed, will lead to MUCH satisfaction in the shooting fields. :drinks:

FWIW
Dale53

[JesterGrin_1]

Dale now that is a reply :)

[44man]

Dale said a mouthful for sure.
Notice the huge recoil lug on the rear of my home made base. It is also cut for a perfect fit in the sight slot. Never been a problem.
The .475 is a different case and even using Loc-Tite primer and red loc-Tite, the screws would loosen. Nothing could withstand the violent vibration, even the large lug on the rear of the base didn't help. I gave up and glass bedded the base to the gun and put bedding epoxy on the screws, it is a true one piece gun and base system.
By the way, to remove epoxied or Loc-Tited screws, take a copper or brass rod the size of the screw head, heat it red hot and hold it on the screw head a few seconds. The screw will turn right out.
A heat gun can remove my base too. But why would I ever remove it?

[crabo]

Jester, what are you planning on hunting with this? What boolits are you going to use? I have a 280 LBT GC WFN that I am working with right now. I had a friend that was going to let me hunt hogs on his property and then decided he didn't want the liability.

[jim4065]

Lord, that Light Hunter is beautiful..............

[JesterGrin_1]

Jester, what are you planning on hunting with this? What boolits are you going to use? I have a 280 LBT GC WFN that I am working with right now. I had a friend that was going to let me hunt hogs on his property and then decided he didn't want the liability.

Well I only have a few molds for the .44 but I will go with the LEE 310Gr and or the Group Buy here on the forum as the 44/444 Hollow Point 300Gr Bullet.

As of yet I have not worked with my Ruger with the new Match Dot but I have some Rounds made up with the 300Gr HP GC bullet and will see how those do. As I do hope well as I plan to go south for some hunting this weekend. May not see a thing but would like to know if I do I can hit it lol.

But after that I will also try out some Lee 310Gr bullets and see how they do as well.

I may try a couple of others also and if you like I will keep you informed? But I do have to say I have a few hundred Lazer Cast 240Gr but they are SWC and Bevel Base and they LEAD the barrel. So since I have so many of the darn things I may melt down a few hundred and use that lead to make a couple of other designs just to see how they do.

Yes I play around with this stuff some lol.

I will add though that 44Man has said the Ranch Dog 265Gr has shot well also.

Sorry I have not used the 280Gr anything.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
I have been up in Blackfoot, staying at the H.S. till after 6pm setting up the 2 new math classes I teach. School computers block not only this site , but even personal emails. They are so over paranoid that a kid might see something, it is almost unbelievable. They have the internet but block almost everything.
I am still waiting for the screw from B-square. Shot the rest of the 310 gr. Lee loads
MAN DO THEY KICK!
Best group was with 9grs Russian Unique, which is way more pleasant to shoot than 18grs. of 2400 OUCH!, or 18 grs of WC820, which turned out to be the best groups with those powders.
Also sent off & got the old Ranch Dog design ed 265gr. GC. in 2 cav. from Lee on your advice to try.
I will definitely enjoy shooting it more than the 310gr. Which I find unpleasant to say the least.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Am in Blackfoot Public Lib. which is the only place I can get open computer acces.
Returned the Lee 310gr. mould & mach. pistol rest to my friend Ted.
My next big project will be trimmimg all my 357 & 44 mag. cases as per the suggestions of you all. Boy will that be a lot of work!
Nice part of that is I have to empty them all 1st.:bigsmyl2:
Something I like to do.
Went exploring today N. of town to find a place to shoot, passed thro Shelly, Firth, & saw Idaho Falls before I turned around. Saw no place likely that I could shoot safetly.
Can not go SE. as that is Fort Hall Indian Res. & I fear I would get into a Heap of trouble shooting on Indian land.
One good thing I found a park here in Blackfoot I could use to do a Karate workout. So I went back to the trailer, changed & did a solo 2hr. practice.
Later I drove out W. & about 16 mi. I found a turnoff that went behind a hill I could use as a backstop & shot off 100 rounds in my 44. Made my day!

[JesterGrin_1]

This is what I did the other day. Now I am not a good shot like .44Man and others but I was happy. The bottom hole is the first round where I made a boo boo lol. It is an Ideal 431244 with 23.OGr of H-110 and a CCI-300 Primer in a Rem Case at 50 yards.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0053-1.jpg

[JesterGrin_1]

I have to add that I was using some of the 44/444 300Gr HP GC as well as the Lee 310Gr but I just could not keep the Matchdot from moving as well as every screw trying to jump ship lol. Now the ejector housing screw has Red Loctite on it and has not moved and every screw for the scope mount has Blue loctite. But I have not tried the 300+Gr boolits in it since I fixed all that stuff. I have gone to the Ideal 431244 at 257Gr and the Ranch Dog 265Gr and all is well with the screws lol. Mine seems to like the 431244 the best of the two. But who knows it might change the next time I go shoot lol. ;)

But I will add that what .44Man said is very correct. And that is how you hold the grip is a BIG DEAL.

[Dale53]

Jester;
That is an excellent target (just call that first shot a "sighter":mrgreen:).

For many years my practice load in my .44 magnums is 23.0 grs of H110 (or WC 820 equivalent) behind a 250 gr Keith bullet. Hunting I have generally used an additional grain of powder (24.0) with the same bullet. That load will shoot through a large whitetail deer end for end. Our Ohio deer are grain fed and it is not uncommon to see one well over 250 lbs.

I consider a good .44 Magnum with a competent shooter to be the near ideal woods weapon for harvesting deer (or hogs or black bear). It is just flat a FINE CHOICE for the task.

Dale53

[JesterGrin_1]

Dale would going up on my powder charge help with accuracy? And the mold is a Ideal 431244 SWC GC which I think would be called a Keith of the time it was made. And say 255Gr but mine comes out to 257 Gr :)

And I sure wish I got to keep my 100 yard target lol. But it would not have proved a thing as the group was a fluke lol. I put 5 rounds into less of an inch. And again I will say it was a HUGE FLUKE lol. As we had a storm front on the way and the wind was bad as we had to even take our spot scopes off of the tables so they would not get blown over lol. And thought hey I have 5 rounds left what the heck lol. But the target did not make it through the rain storm that came in lol. Which is a good thing really as I might have kept the target and knew I would never be able to do that again in my life time lol.:)

[Dale53]

Jester;
According to the Lyman cast bullet handbook, the 431244 creates a bit more pressure than the 429421. The pressure figures show the 429421 can use a bit over a grain more powder with the same pressure. I just recently came into a four cavity Lyman 431244 but haven't worked with it yet (I have cast some bullets but haven't shot them yet). I got my first .44 Magnum back in the late fifties or early sixties and have used mostly the various .44 Keith bullets (Lyman 429421 and H&G #503) as I haven't really needed a gas check bullet.

However, when Frank Siefer and I designed the Lee C430-310-RF 310 gr bullet we decided to make it a gas check as we were up against a time constraint (Frank was going to Alaska to hunt bear) we believed that it would be easier to get fine accuracy with a gas check. I don't know if that is indeed true (we thought it might be at the time) but the Lee turned out to be one of the most accurate bullets we have ever used in several .44 Magnums with several excellent shooters. However, it cannot be denied that the recoil is CONSIDERABLY heavier than the 250 gr Keith. Certainly, the Keith is all of the bullet needed for deer, hogs, and black bear. It seems to punch a 3/4" hole all the way through (I have never recovered a bullet from game) and it is certainly CERTAIN if the shooter does his/her job.

Answer to your question - the maximum safe load for the Keith bullet in the .44 Magnum, I consider to be 25.0 grs of H110 or Win 296. That would put your 431244 at the 23.5 gr level. That is about as high as I would be comfortable with. I am sure that there are others who would dispute that level, but that is all "I" am comfortable with.

FWIW
Dale53

[JesterGrin_1]

Dale I got the load here http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin1894.htm for the 431244 at what you said 23.5 Gr of H-110. But I thought I would load it down a tad to 23.OGr . Do you think it would help if I jumped it up that 1/2 Gr?

And Thank You Dale I do like that Lee 310Gr. I just wish there size from Lee was Larger. I had to lap mine out some and I beagled it lol. It is now oval lol. But when I size it all is well with the world lol. They still shoot great.

And to tell the truth I can not really tell much between my 257GR SWC with 23.O Gr of H-110 and my Lee 310Gr with 21.5Gr of H-110. They are both THUMPERS :)

But then again I would guess once you go up to a certain point THUMP is THUMP LOL.

[Dale53]

Jester;
Actually, if you are happy with the results at 23.0 grs then that is the load. It would be interesting to run these over the chronograph to see what the difference might be.

In my Model 29 (8 3/8") revolver, I get 1200 fps with a 250 Keith ahead of 23.0 grs of H110. I get 1300 fps with 24.0 grs. I personally see little need to go further. I have run 10,000 of these loads through my Smith and it is still just as tight as the day I brought it home. I like that... I have shot very few of the 310 gr bullets as I have little need for them and they DO beat up the revolver a bit (they will shorten it's service life). However, they DO shoot well, indeed!

Just as a test, I killed a 10 point deer with this bullet (the 310 Lee) but it as it turned out it proved little. The deer was behind a tree with just his head and neck sticking out while sniffing a scrape at a scant 25 yards. I broke his neck. It did blow a vertabrae up through the top of his neck showing serious impact but the range was close and with that shot a .32 would have probably done the job. However, I have had a number of field reports on this bullet and they have been high praise, indeed. If I were hunting moose or elk, that bullet would be my pick. Otherwise, I am happy with the 250 gr Keith.

Dale53

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
Jester that is a great group.
I am still working to achive the like.
That 310gr. might be a great 444 marlin bullet too.

[JesterGrin_1]

Boom Boom Thank You but that group is from an Ideal 431244 SWC GC mold sized a hair over .431.

Not the Lee 310Gr. I found that by using that round I would have to keep a screw driver kit with me to put all of the screws back in my Ruger after about 20 rounds lol.

But with Loctite I think I have that fixed now. lol. But will work more on that later after some hunting as the Ideal 431244 should work just fine. :)

[BOOM BOOM]

HI<
theb rear screw for the B-sQuare mount finnally arrived today.
So after the Black powder hunt I can remount the Pan V Holo sight & start trying to finish the accuracy load search for the 44 Redhawk.
Also got the discontinued Ranch Dog style 265gr. gc. mould from Lee. So will need to cast up a bunch to test.:-D:Fire::Fire:

[JesterGrin_1]

So Boom Boom what became of the Ranch Dog 265Gr Test?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
HAVE NOT EVEN HAD TIME TO CAST ANY!!!!!!!!!!!!
DRAT!
I am still trying to get all the cases trimmed, & deburred.
And casting season is almost over,:shock: So much to do & so little time, as am only where I can do any gun stiff 1 day every 2 wks. Blah!

[Frank]

Boom boom said
casting season is almost over. :shock: So much to do & so little time
That is the lamest answer you could give. :violin:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
GEE THANKS FRANK!
Lets see , I teach math in H.S. Blackfoot Id. Since last Aug. I have Been only able to go home 1 X every 2 weeks. Traveling the 222mi. to see my Wife, & family. Had a new (the 1st) grandson, who has been in & out hosp. 3 X's. Went over to my father-in laws house & trimmed , $ inside & outside deburred :
100 7MM mag brass
2,000 7MM /06 brass
5,000 357 brass AT LEAST
150 220 swift brass
3,000 44mag brass AT LEAST
Sized , primed & loaded the 357 brass.
Still Have 3,000 brass to debur, still have to load the other brass.

Also I teach a 2 hr. karate class, & a 2 hr. Jujitsu class at B.Y.U. the local collage on the sat. I am home.
I have to sleep enough to make the drive back to Blackfoot on sun.
So you tell me when have I had time to cast the 265"s load & shoot.
OH YEAH YOU DID NOT EVEN THANK ME WHEN I DID THE RESEARCH & POSTED THE OPITUM CASE NECK TENSION RANGE IN LBS. ON THE THREAD ON CASE TRIMMIMG THAT I STARTED.:Fire::Fire:

[kbstenberg]

Well i have another HIGH 5 for all the contributers to this site!!!
I'm a newby to revolvers. So i seriously read an re-read this thread concerning what type of sighting device to put on my R. R.H. for hunting. I went with the general consensus an got the Ultra Dot Reddot.
It was an easy install an sighting. The first 6 shots at 25 yards was 3" low an 1" Right. 2 more minor adjustments an i was dead on. I then moved the target to 50 yards. 1 adjustment an i was set to go.
All my groups were 2/3 of what i had been doing with open sights. So once again i have to give all the contributing members of this site a high 5 for helping us lowly students learn from your vast experience.
I was surprised how much the sights wobble when i was trying to hold the gun steady.
Kevin

[Dale53]

kbstenberg;
I believe that you made an excellent choice - what's MORE important, as time goes on YOU will realize more and more the truth of that statement.

In fact, when I get off the computer, I'm going to head to my basement shop and install a "no drill and no tap" mount on my prize 624 (6½") .44 Special. It'll have a Red Dot sight on it before the sun goes down. "I puts my money where my mouth is"...

Dale53

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
THE BURRIS FASTFIRE 11 has held up well on the 357. Redhawk,
with the b -square mount.
But that mounting system will not hold up on the 44 with the 300grs , & up wt. bulletts[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I went out and sold a bunch of stuff, so now i can FINALLY order a good scope base for the 44 Redhawk. Only took over a year. GEECH!:Fire::Fire:

[white eagle]

had a Tasco pro point fell apart on my foe-d-foe
been using he Ultra dot since.... no probs man

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well I got a Wiengard scope base for the Redhawk, went to mount the Pan-A-V holosight . To make a long story short, broke 3 of their (ULTRA DOTS) scope base screws, took a mo. to get the replacements. Finally just went and bought a stainless hardened screw locally. l
LOCKTITED ALL SCREWS, WORKED.[smilie=w:
Today was the 1st chance I have had to get out to shoot this year, & got my 44 Redhawk sighted in at 50yds.[smilie=w:
Really like the cross-hair setting.
So now I can finally do some load work up with the 265gr. Ranch Dog bullet.[smilie=w::Fire::Fire:

[Frank]

Boom boom:
So now I can finally do some load work up with the 265gr. Ranch Dog bullet.
Better late than never. On the Pan-V, you can use a hardware screw for the front with a nut, but the rear still has the threads in the aluminum body. How are you going to make that hold tight?

[Whitworth]

Well i have another HIGH 5 for all the contributers to this site!!!
I'm a newby to revolvers. So i seriously read an re-read this thread concerning what type of sighting device to put on my R. R.H. for hunting. I went with the general consensus an got the Ultra Dot Reddot.
It was an easy install an sighting. The first 6 shots at 25 yards was 3" low an 1" Right. 2 more minor adjustments an i was dead on. I then moved the target to 50 yards. 1 adjustment an i was set to go.
All my groups were 2/3 of what i had been doing with open sights. So once again i have to give all the contributing members of this site a high 5 for helping us lowly students learn from your vast experience.
I was surprised how much the sights wobble when i was trying to hold the gun steady.
Kevin

Glad to hear you are happy with the choice you made. The Ultradot won't disappoint!

[Frank]

Whitworth:
Glad to hear you are happy with the choice you made. The Ultradot won't disappoint!

It will if you get the Pan-V. The thin bolt breaks from recoil. :coffee: