"Ceramic material"

[Catshooter]

For cleaning brass? A couple of you have mentioned it - what is it and where do I find it please?


Cat

[cajun shooter]

It's ceramic media and it's used in many industrial cleaning jobs. The plus side being it does not wear out. It's used with water and a cleaning agent. Many places sell what they call a ceramic kit. Buffalo Arms, Big Lube mold sales are two that I deal with. You get about 8 lbs of media and a bottle of additive to put in the water for around $50 In fact I have a tumbler going as I type this. I myself have better results with a rotary type tumbler such as the Model B Thumblers Tumbler. They have two models and you want the High Speed model for best results. Later David

[e15cap]

If I had to clean cases without ceramic media, like they did in the bad old day's with a brush. I would quit BP. Get the kit and don't look back. Best, Roger

[Bent Ramrod]

bpsteve@cox.net

He sells the ceramic kits. Great guy to deal with.

[calaloo]

Cabela's has the ceramic media also. There are two common shapes/sizes. The large angle cut pieces are what you want to use for large cases with large primer pockets. The smaller bead media works best for smaller cases with small primer pockets. Get a tumbler as the weight of the ceramic media puts quite a strain on most viberator cleaners.

[August]

Midway, Buffalo Arms, Sagebrush Supply all have the larger, cut-cylinder media. Sagebrush is the only place that I've found that carries the smaller, spherical type in quantities that BP shooters would be interested in.

[montana_charlie]

I buy it here...
http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?catID=786

Items 9-0013 & 9-0014 are the kind you want for large cases.
If you need that much, you can get 8 pounds for $28.

But I found that four pounds is plenty in my large Lortone tumbler which is 4/5th's the size of the Thumbler's Model B.
CM

[dromia]

I got media from Buffalo Arms (I had a couple of Thumlers Tumblers I was using dry already) and it honestly stepchanged my BP cartridge reloading in the time and pain it saved cleaning the cases.

Just throwing them into some water and dish soap never worked for me, the crud just built up inside the cases and I had to scrub each one with a cut down bore brush.

With my arthritic hands it was slow going, the ceramic media put all that in the past. :-D

[Hip's Ax]

I got the kit from Buffalo but there's no instructions. How much media and compound do I put in? Am I suppose to put in water too? You figure there would be some instructions but nothing.

My mentor uses Dawn dishwashing liquid and water but I was curious as to what the Buffalo compound was and how it would work.

I'm using a Thumler's Model B high speed.

[montana_charlie]

I got the kit from Buffalo but there's no instructions. How much media and compound do I put in? Am I suppose to put in water too?
If you already have a mentor, he can probably guide you, but...

I asked for advice from some online contacts who use ceramic. The general advice was to use less liquid than 'the instructions' usually call for.

The instructions (if you had any) would probably say to fill with enough water to barely cover the ceramic media, and add a capful of 'cleaner'. Experimenting with lesser amounts, I have best results by keeping the liquid to about a third of the volume of the media.

As for 'how much' media, I have been using enough to fill my
(15-cup capacity) barrel one quarter full.

So, I'm using 3 1/2 cups of media and 1 cup of liquid in a 12-pound barrel.
It works well with 50 45/90 cases...and perhaps would handle more without adding media.

For an amount of water that small, a half-cap of cleaner would probably be more than enough...
CM

[August]

I got the kit from Buffalo but there's no instructions. How much media and compound do I put in? Am I suppose to put in water too? You figure there would be some instructions but nothing.

My mentor uses Dawn dishwashing liquid and water but I was curious as to what the Buffalo compound was and how it would work.

I'm using a Thumler's Model B high speed.

I tried Dawn and got a shop full of soap bubbles for my effort. I like the RCBS detergent that is made especially for wet media tumbling. The biggest mistake that people make when using wet media is that they use TOO MUCH WATER. I try to get water and detergent to a level that is well below the top of the media. Or, to say it another way, the stuff works better when there is too little water than when there is too much. I use around two ounces of detergent and water to about a half inch, to an inch, below the media.

Recently, I tried a run with Murphy's Oil Soap and Windex with Vinegar (no ammonia) and have very good results and no sudsing problems.

I have been wanting to try some low-sudsing laundry detergent, but haven't gotten around to it. The difference I've noted between dedicated detergents and off-the-shelf stuff is the sudsing. I'm guessing this is not as great a problem with the Thumbler because the drum is sealed while tumbling.

[Hip's Ax]

Thanks Charlie. :drinks:

My mentor uses Dawn & water and he has ceramic media that looks like cigarette lighter flints. Wanted the Buffalo kit to compare and then I'll use the best one.

Figured the angle cut cylinders would get in the primer pockets better than the square cut cylinders.

I did try his media and method but my old Model B leaks so I put a new one in high speed on my want list a year ago, I just broke down and bought it recently.

[Hip's Ax]

Thanks August. :drinks:

What tumbler are you using?

[Catshooter]

Thanks for all the help gentlemen. I'm on it.


Cat

[August]

August. :drinks:

What tumbler are you using?


I have an RCBS Sidewinder. A local shop went out of business and I got it for a great price. Had that not happened, I surely would have gotten a Thumbler.

I like the Sidewinder a lot. It is very convenient and has a timer built in. Easy to clean and handle. It is vented, however, which is why sudsing is such an issue to me. I would never think of paying the regular price for one, however. (note: shortsighted attention to RCBS's fabulous service policies)

Ceramic media is the Bee's Knees as far as I'm concerned. It has really made black powder shooting easier. That's important since every other part of the process is so time consuming.

[dromia]

Hips Ax.

With the Buffalo Arms media I dumped it into the drum, fills it about 1/3rd to less than half full, topped up with water to the level of the media and put in a capfull of cleaning agent. That was a bit sudsy and I use half a capful now to equal effect.

[cajun shooter]

The downfall of the Sidewinder is the drum. Dick Rhody know as Dick Dastardly has one and had to buy the entire drum when it failed. Told me it cost almost $100 Later David

[abunaitoo]

Can ceramic be used in a vibrator or only in a tumbler??????
Being small sticks, will it get stuck in bottleneck cases?????

[cajun shooter]

Tried the vibrator UV-18 from thumblers that I have and received poor results. Tumblers give much better results and have not heard of anyone having any luck with BN cases. The ceramic is meant for cleaning SW rifle and pistol cases that have fired BP. YMMV

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Dave Mauer sells the kit, you can find his add in the BPCR news, Shiloh Also sells the kit and the Model B thumblers tumbler. Steve R also was mentioned and he sells Dave Mauer's stuff.

ALL are the most straight up folks you will ever met.

KW
The lunger

[Nobade]

I haven't tried ceramic media, but I do use random stainless steel shapes in my Thumbler model B with Dawn soap and water. The stainless works great, doesn't wear away the cases, and lasts forever. Being located in a town big on jewelry making (Albuquerque) we have lots of jewelry supply houses in town that have stuff for tumbling and other useful tools.

[hiram]

Very little dishwashing soap (1/2 -- 1 tsp), water, about 4 oz of white vinegar for Thumblers tumbler if drum is half full. Add enough water until you just start to see it rise to the level of the ceramic.

I got my ceramic from ebay but what I bought isn't listed now. Gotta keep watching--small sticks about 3/32 diam, 1/4 -- 5/16 long.

Now, what I am going to do next time I use the solution:

Some of use chore boy to get the lead out. I am going to use the liquid mix as above and throw in a few balls of chore boy to see how it cleans. I expect the cases to be very bright.

[montana_charlie]

I have the Lortone QT-12 rotary tumbler...second hand from eBay.
It is rated at '12 pounds' in comparison with the Thumler Model B at '15 pounds'...so you can see it's a 'large' barrel.
It's said to have a volume capacity of 15 cups...which is actually more informative than the 'weight thing' when talking about 'how much' of anything you might want to put in it.

And, I have two barrels for this tumbler.

In the first barrel, I run four pounds of 3/32 x 5/16-inch angle-cut cylinder media, which works out to about 3 1/2 cups. For that amount of media, I use one cup of liquid...made up of 2 ounces of 'citrus cleaner' and 6 ounces of water.
Two or three hours in the tumbler makes BP cases clean and bright.
This combination generates a bit of foam, but it evaporates pretty quickly after the drum is opened.

Then, I 'dry' the ceramic tumbled cases by running them in the other barrel for two hours...in walnut shell. It's hard to tell my reloads from new brass.

I don't rinse the cases before the walnut tumble, but I do rinse and dry the media after each use.

The Lortone QT-6 is the same machine, but has a 'shorter' barrel. It is the same diameter as the 12-pounder, but is only half as deep. The diameter is the important part, because that determines 'how far' the tumbled media/brass travels during each rotation. A small diameter would have to run much longer to equal the total distance traveled (per tumbling period) in a large barrel.
I believe the QT-6 would be just as efficient as mine, but would only handle half of the 'maximum' capacity.
I highlighted 'maximum' because I don't think I am running at maximum for my 12-pounder...and the 6-pounder may be able to handle the same amount I currently use.

I use four pounds because that quantity fits in the colander that I use for washing the media.

CM

[WARD O]

Anyone tried the soap used in automatic dishwashers rather than hand diswashing soap? It is supposed to be low suds isn't it?

Ward

[montana_charlie]

Anyone tried the soap used in automatic dishwashers rather than hand diswashing soap? It is supposed to be low suds isn't it?

Ward
That might be right. But actually, I think powdered laundry detergents are a low-sudsing type, too. Otherwise, a lady could have a real mess in her laundry room.

Another possibility would be the detergents used in high-pressure power washers. But, those are so concentrated, you could easily get more than you wanted. One thing's for sure...a gallon would last a long time if you only needed four drops per tumbler load.
CM

[August]

The downfall of the Sidewinder is the drum. Dick Rhody know as Dick Dastardly has one and had to buy the entire drum when it failed. Told me it cost almost $100 Later David

RCBS has always made good on drums that went Tango Uniform in my experience with them. I had one leak and RCBS had a new one at my door -- on their dime -- within a week.

[cajun shooter]

I was only relaying information given to me by this shooter and I will say that RCBS has been good to me but maybe not always with everyone. I use the Thumblers mdl B and would have no other. Traded my old mdl B to have the UV-18 and realiized I made a mistake so bought new Mdl B from Buffalo Arms.

[sheepdog]

I haven't tried ceramic media, but I do use random stainless steel shapes in my Thumbler model B with Dawn soap and water. The stainless works great, doesn't wear away the cases, and lasts forever. Being located in a town big on jewelry making (Albuquerque) we have lots of jewelry supply houses in town that have stuff for tumbling and other useful tools.

Elaborate "random stainless steel shapes".

[montana_charlie]

Elaborate "random stainless steel shapes".
Here's one example...
http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?catID=789

If you read about steel shot media long enough, you will probably find information that says it has three times the mass of ceramic media. Therefore it impinges on the item being polished with more force. That has the effect of work-hardening the article, which is a 'good thing' for jewelry.

But, you may not think that so great for cartridge brass which becomes brittle when work-hardened...and suffers from cracks and splits.

I have never used steel media, but decided not to when I read that.

CM

[Gellot Wilde]

I use nothing but the RCBS sidewinder liquid media...makes a really good job IMHO.

[sheepdog]

Here's one example...
http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?catID=789

If you read about steel shot media long enough, you will probably find information that says it has three times the mass of ceramic media. Therefore it impinges on the item being polished with more force. That has the effect of work-hardening the article, which is a 'good thing' for jewelry.

But, you may not think that so great for cartridge brass which becomes brittle when work-hardened...and suffers from cracks and splits.

I have never used steel media, but decided not to when I read that.

CM

I was kinda thinking the same thing, except that it would cut and crease brass. Kinda the reason I didn't go with broken safety glass as media. I had heard that guys at junk yards used to use tumblers with broken glass to polish up old car parts after the clean tank to resell.

[montana_charlie]

I had heard that guys at junk yards used to use tumblers with broken glass to polish up old car parts after the clean tank to resell.
That's an interesting, and rather frightening, idea. As hard as glass is, I would expect it to eat away the tumbler barrel as quickly as it cleaned the objects within it...
CM

[Nobade]

Hmmm, I had never thought about it work hardening the brass. I have been using the same cases for years now and never had one fail, so I guess I won't worry too much. I do know not to do 6.5mm cases with the media I have though, some of the shot will go in but won't come out. Anything bigger or smaller is fine. That's a mistake I won't make again!

[Red River Rick]

Nobade:

Go to the Kingsley North link that MC posted in post #29. They have 3mm ceramic polishing balls. I bought some and use it to polish all my bottle neck cases, even my 22-250 cases.
Never had any "jambing" problems, as you described with the cut media.

Ceramic Media Works like a charm. Makes the ugliest brass look like brand new again.

RRR

[Nobade]

I will have to try some one of these days. So far I've been happpy with the stainless, and since I tumble parts in ceramic media at work to deburr and soften the edges, I just wonder what ceramic does to cartridge cases. I would imagine 3MM balls wouldn't cut away too much brass. Do you notice your cases getting shorter over time?


I just looked up the stuff I'm using, I think this is it:
http://www.riogrande.com/MemberArea/ProductPage.aspx?assetname=339097&page=GRID&category%7ccategory_root%7c118=Finishing+Equipment +and+Supplies&category%7ccat_118%7c292=Tumbling&attribute_value_string%7cMetal+type=Stainless+stee l

Or maybe this will work better:
http://tinyurl.com/yauugfu

[Nobade]

Here's the stuff from Rio Grande - they have many sizes of porcelain balls. I bet this is more like what y'all are using, it polishes instead of cutting.

http://tinyurl.com/y89fjlr

[montana_charlie]

I tumble parts in ceramic media at work to deburr and soften the edges, I just wonder what ceramic does to cartridge cases.
You definitely want to stay away from anything 'abrasive'...which will 'soften edges' and so forth.
CM

[fatnhappy]

search "industrial abrasives" for your town. I guarantee you can find a local supplier, cheap.

[Wayne Smith]

I use the 3mm beads in a Lyman small bowl with no problems and have for years. Yes, you cna use a vibratory "tumbler".

[Flinchrock]

Go to McMaster-Carr's web site, they carry all kinds of tumbleing media, and have a chart covering the relative abrasiveness of the different media. They also carry tumblers. Warning, once you get into that catalog, you may never get out.

[montana_charlie]

I love McMaster-Carr...always have.
However, their 3/8 x 3/16 'polishing' ceramic angle-cut cylinders costs $32 for ten pounds.
That's a good size for (say) 45/70 and other similar straight cases, but Kingsley North can equal that...and KN will sell it in smaller packages. You probably can't use ten pounds, anyway.

Their #2 burnishing liquid sounds like a great product, but at $82 per bottle, I think 'citrus degreaser' from Home Depot is good enough. They don't even say how big the bottle is...

Their porcelain spheres might be a good deal for bottleneck cases, but I didn't look at them very close.

CM

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

Something you may want to check into is the new Stainless steel media. It 100% cleans inside, outside and the primer pockets to like new. I have been using it for about 4 months and works better than anything I have tried

[calaloo]

Idaho Elk Hunter

Do you care to elaborate on the name of this stuff, Where to get it, etc.

---------------------------------------------------
WHAT THE HELL IS STAINLESS STEEL MEDIA

[montana_charlie]

calaloo,
While you wait for an answer from Idaho Elk Hunter, you might like to jump back to Post #29 of this thread...
CM

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

This isnt steel shot. Tiny pieces that does less harm than the ceramic. I thin k the tumbler being full of water with dish soap makes it almost weightless. I have been using it for about 4 months now and it is working better than ceramic and this can be used with 223 and such. I have run brass for 2 days straight with no ill effects. My ceramic is store away now.

calaloo or anyone else if your interested pm me and I will give you info.


http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/IdahoElkHunter/media1.jpg
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/IdahoElkHunter/media2.jpg

[Gellot Wilde]

Where can you buy it from?